Fl districts requiring masks up to four times lower COVID-19 cases per capita 

a reply to: YongSu

Perhaps we called it herd immunity for that reason. We are social and constantly touch each other which spreads pathogens, but in spreading the pathogens, the group innoculates itself.

By attempting to stay isolated, we've attempted to thwart that and it just doesn't work well. It only drags out the process.

a reply to: chr0naut

Let’s use Colorado as an example. They actually chart out the infection rates of school age children in counties with masks vs without masks.



I get the difference in peaks.

Bur two things stand out.

One. The rates from counties without mask mandates deviate from the counties with mask mandates when it is politically needed.


Two. The peaks are different. But the trend is almost identical in slope between the two graphs. If masks where effect, then the graph for masked counties should be flatter, less change in direction compared to the counties without mask mandates.

Something else was going on, but the date is being politically skewed to create a false narrative.

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't get it. If people are not wearing masks everywhere including inside their own homes how do we know, since this virus apparently "spreads asymptomatically" how does anyone know they aren't infected and spreading the virus everywhere to their families and everyone. If someone does not have symptoms they are not very likely to get tested, so they would not know they are infected in order to do any mitigating measures. This is why I personally doubt asymptomatic spread is responsible for very many cases/dare I say that I think the experts are confusing asymptomatic with presymptomatic? Or even go so far as to say asymptomatic spread may not exist.

Edit: also this begs the question why are we trying to make healthy people who have no symptoms wear masks. If the point of the mask is to protect others?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

Really?

Then why the call to double mask.

I dunno. Do surgeons double mask?

Do we have any historical use of double masks, showing effectiveness?

I thought that the idea of double-masking was invented by those trying to deny the effectiveness of masks, as part of their nonsense disinfo campaign?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

I don't think you understood.

It has been happening, and without precautions since earlier this summer.

And, subsequently, how many new cases per day and deaths per day have been happening there?

COVID-19 Dashboard
by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: autopat51
thats amazing!!! considering masks dont do anything.

No, the masks work. So does washing your hands. And social distancing. And lockdowns. And vaccinations.

But if people protest, and group together, and refuse to mask up, and refuse to stick with lock-down protocols, and are generally domestic terrorists in a time of a pandemic, then the disease spreads from these human super-spreader events, and people still die unnecessarily.

Calling one's fellow citizens "domestic terrorists" is a bit hyperbolic. If this is where we are going I would argue that the world deserves a pandemic in order to teach us a bit humility.

If people who don't ware makes are "domestic terrorists" what do we call those who shoot up night clubs?

I'd also argue that it is exactly this exaggerated and emotionally driven world outlook that drives the opposite extremists.

Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms. Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit. 

link

When the data on school masking is inconclusive at this time; its difficult to take people seriously who call others "domestic terrorists" for having a different opinion.

So, if terrorists spread a biotoxin or deadly pathogen, they are terrorists, but if others willfully do exactly the same thing, but believe they have a political right to do so, it isn't?

People will die.

a reply to: Chalcedony

That's another thing.

They say the point of the mask is not to protect you, but to protect those around you from yourself. We know that the mask doesn't stop the virus itself while it may stop your "sneeze spray", but if you're sneezing and coughing, then you are symptomatic. If you're symptomatic, why on earth are you out and about?

If you're asymptomatic, then you likely are not coughing and sneezing, so the idea of the mask stopping your "sneeze spray" breaks down and it doesn't stop virus from floating around.

What it does do when you tell people that they are protecting others, is make them feel virtuous. They are saving the world by wearing and mask, and they feel justified in spitting all kinds of horrible, vile things at people who see no reason to wear one because they don't see that it does much good either way unless they are actively ill ... in which case, they aren't out and about and don't need to wear one.

And the post from chr0naut above illustrates my point perfectly. Thanks!

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

Let’s use Colorado as an example. They actually chart out the infection rates of school age children in counties with masks vs without masks.

I get the difference in peaks.

Bur two things stand out.

One. The rates from counties without mask mandates deviate from the counties with mask mandates when it is politically needed.

Two. The peaks are different. But the trend is almost identical in slope between the two graphs. If masks where effect, then the graph for masked counties should be flatter, less change in direction compared to the counties without mask mandates.

Something else was going on, but the date is being politically skewed to create a false narrative.

WTF do you think that someone gains politically if kids have to wear masks while a disease is raging?

Will the politicians be more popular? Will they get more money? Will they have more control over the allocation of funds? Will they have to spend less on infrastructure? Will it minimize their tax?

What is their actual advantage from this 'giant conspiracy' to delude you?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: autopat51
thats amazing!!! considering masks dont do anything.

No, the masks work. So does washing your hands. And social distancing. And lockdowns. And vaccinations.

But if people protest, and group together, and refuse to mask up, and refuse to stick with lock-down protocols, and are generally domestic terrorists in a time of a pandemic, then the disease spreads from these human super-spreader events, and people still die unnecessarily.

Calling one's fellow citizens "domestic terrorists" is a bit hyperbolic. If this is where we are going I would argue that the world deserves a pandemic in order to teach us a bit humility.

If people who don't ware makes are "domestic terrorists" what do we call those who shoot up night clubs?

I'd also argue that it is exactly this exaggerated and emotionally driven world outlook that drives the opposite extremists.

Many of America’s peer nations around the world — including the U.K., Ireland, all of Scandinavia, France, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Italy — have exempted kids, with varying age cutoffs, from wearing masks in classrooms. Conspicuously, there’s no evidence of more outbreaks in schools in those countries relative to schools in the U.S., where the solid majority of kids wore masks for an entire academic year and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. These countries, along with the World Health Organization, whose child-masking guidance differs substantially from the CDC’s recommendations, have explicitly recognized that the decision to mask students carries with it potential academic and social harms for children and may lack a clear benefit. 

link

When the data on school masking is inconclusive at this time; its difficult to take people seriously who call others "domestic terrorists" for having a different opinion.

So, if terrorists spread a biotoxin or deadly pathogen, they are terrorists, but if others willfully do exactly the same thing, but believe they have a political right to do so, it isn't?

People will die.

Yup there is a big difference between sending people anthrax in the mail and not waring a mask ... big clearly defined difference... the more that extremists on one side of this argument continue to put forth silly arguments that they are the same the more they will push the other side to act in the exact opposite way then they would hope.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

Really?

Then why the call to double mask.

I dunno. Do surgeons double mask?

Do we have any historical use of double masks, showing effectiveness?

I thought that the idea of double-masking was invented by those trying to deny the effectiveness of masks, as part of their nonsense disinfo campaign?

Hey check this out before you spread misinformation about surgeons wearing masks:

Examination of the literature revealed much of the published work on the matter to be quite dated and often studies had poorly elucidated methodologies. As a result, we recommend caution in extrapolating their findings to contemporary surgical practice. However, overall there is a lack of substantial evidence to support claims that facemasks protect either patient or surgeon from infectious contamination. More rigorous contemporary research is needed to make a definitive comment on the effectiveness of surgical facemasks.

Intuition would suggest that facemasks offer a physical barrier preventing the emanation of droplets from the oral or nasal passages and therefore satisfy the efficacy requirement of the evidence ladder. However, there are a number of different hypotheses as to why this may not be the case. ‘Venting’ is a phenomenon whereby air leaks at the interface between mask and face which can act to disperse potential contaminants originating from the pharynx. The accumulation of moisture, during prolonged usage, may exacerbate this problem by increasing resistance to air flow through the filter itself. Moisture accumulation is also thought to facilitate the movement of contaminants through the material of the mask itself by capillary action. These bacteria can subsequently be dislodged by movement. Friction at the face/mask interface has also been demonstrated to disperse skin scales which can further contribute towards wound contamination.

In the modern era, there has also been a scarcity of experimental evidence to support the effectiveness of facemasks in the prevention of surgical site infections. The earliest retrospective studies failed to demonstrate any statistically significant improvement in surgical site infection rates following the use of masks. Indeed, the latest National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines on the matter do not require operating staff to wear a mask in theatre. This decision was based primarily upon the findings of a Cochrane systematic review. This review was guided by the findings of two particular randomised/quasi-randomised control trials. The latest update of this review, which was amended after the publication of current National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines, included one further study.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

So no. Surgeons do not always even wear one mask and the masking for surgery theory is based on dated studies that need re-evaluation.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: chr0naut

Really?

Then why the call to double mask.

I dunno. Do surgeons double mask?

Do we have any historical use of double masks, showing effectiveness?

I thought that the idea of double-masking was invented by those trying to deny the effectiveness of masks, as part of their nonsense disinfo campaign?

You know that’s utterly false and totally BS.

Double Masking ‘Makes Common Sense,’ Fauci Says

Jan. 26, 2021 -- Anthony Fauci, MD, says wearing two masks is better than one when it comes to warding off the coronavirus.


www.webmd.com...

For Joe Biden, two face masks are better than one in the era of COVID-19

The former vice president said he arrived at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia for his separate town hall with an N95 mask under the blue surgical mask that he wore onto the stage.

"I walked in here with this mask, but I have one of the N95 masks underneath it. And I left it in the dressing room, the room I was in before I got here," Biden said when talking about the importance of masks to stop the spread of COVID-19 – and the importance of modeling good behavior.

www.usatoday.com...

I’m not a surgeon, however I’m a former Orthopedic rep, did business development in ophthalmology, global trainer, had a consulting business helping design surgical devices, and co-owned a clinic. Literally been involved in 10’s of thousands of surgeries and assisted in teaching over 100 surgical courses all over the world.

With that said, it depends upon what type of surgery you are talking about. Ophthalmology….. no. Orthopedics? No. They do surgery in special laminar flow rooms designed to keep outside air out plus the surgeons wear zoot suits with full face shields due to the threat of deep infections.

Do masks work? Yes. You are a damn fool to think they don’t. Are they 100% percent effective in all situations. Obviously not or they would not go to such extreme measures in orthopedics.

Why do you think we basically did not have a flu season? Answer: Masks! You are a damn fool to think they do not help. And a damn fool to not want to protect children.

Denny

a reply to: chr0naut

WTF do you think that someone gains politically if kids have to wear masks while a disease is raging?

It’s about the conditioning and the chipping away of freedoms.

And imposing fascism, and creating a false narrative the state should never be questioned.

They have to lie to prove their “science” is right.

Again.

Wearing cheap a$$ masks improperly worn, that don’t seal, with no training how to don, wear, maintain, dispose of (or clean), and with no proper means of disposal are useless.

Mask mandates are a useless feel good measure that turned into people like Fauci having to create a lie supported by fascism to force they are right.


And I see you yourself are willing to post blatant falsehoods like:

I thought that the idea of double-masking was invented by those trying to deny the effectiveness of masks, as part of their nonsense disinfo campaign?

When in reality…

Double Masking ‘Makes Common Sense,’ Fauci Says

Jan. 26, 2021 -- Anthony Fauci, MD, says wearing two masks is better than one when it comes to warding off the coronavirus.


www.webmd.com...

Now, if you question a school board as a parent…

Republican politicians and parents rage over Biden 'weaponizing' DOJ to target those who dissent with woke school boards over COVID restrictions and CRT curriculum


www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: DaCook

Do you wear masks during surgery made out of T-shirts? Or cotton masks made by Hanes purchased from Walgreens?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: DaCook

Do you wear masks during surgery made out of T-shirts? Or cotton masks made by Hanes purchased from Walgreens?

Masks are required for entry into an operating room. Wore a mask on average 3 days a week for 30 years, n guess what? I somehow survived. What grade are you in to ask a question like that?

Denny

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: DaCook

Do you wear masks during surgery made out of T-shirts? Or cotton masks made by Hanes purchased from Walgreens?

Do they consistently wear their masks below their noses like I see everywhere I go? People with their masks below their noses ...

Do they wear their masks consistently for 8 hrs at a stretch, day in, day out?

Does he think the flu is so dangerous that we need to wear pieces of cloth on our face every day, 8 hours a day, in all social situations to attempt to avoid an mainly mild illness that almost everyone's immune system is able to defeat?

a reply to: ketsuko

Personally never seen the operating surgeon not completely cover their face while operating. Never met a surgeon who did not want the best for their patients. Now on rare occasion you will see an anesthesiologist who is way outside the sterile field and at least 6-10 feet away monitoring vital signs not completely cover their nose, but I want to emphasize “rarely.”

Oh…. You will never see that in orthopedics. Series # not to completely cover. They would loose their OR privileges.

Denny

Are you comparing a surgeon double masking rated masks for a limited time in pre prepared sterile environment following strict hygiene protocols with a full team of staff who aid the surgeon in keeping his masks and hands as clean as possible to child with a piece of cloth on its face?

Retarded.
a reply to: chr0naut

a reply to: DaCook

Now explain to me how likely you are to train 5-year-olds to behave like professionals in an operating theatre.

Good luck with that.

a reply to: dandandat2

I'm one of those who doesn't believe this. And my reasoning has to do with the article. Never were the number of students mentioned, just per capita numbers. Show me the data, and you can't argue the data, it is what it is. But this ....isn't.