USS Connecticut has undersea collision

originally posted by: neutronflux
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cooling has to be dumped overboard at sometime or the sib would blow up like a balloon storing all that water

If your this clueless, give it up dude.

Only the heat has to be removed. That can be done through a series of heat exchangers with the surrounding seas the ultimate heat sink.

If you loose your heat sinks. The reactor scrams so heat production is stopped.

also if I'm so clueless school me in thermodynamics and the way thermionic converters work, you seem to think that the reactor is only on when heat is needed? that's crazy the reactor is always running unless it is shut down for a reason.

why on god earth would you stop a reactor just because?


tell me how you start this reactor back up so fast?

if they are already using highly enriched fuels and you quench the reaction the heat will build anyway from the decay heat.

what do you do with that?

what if the reactor power was needed the second it was turned off?

i cant believe they are turning on and off the reactor willy nilly on any naval boat

a reply to: penroc3

You

why on god earth would you stop a reactor just because?

Because when you pull in to port you bring on shore power.

Shutting down the reactor in port lets the navy…

One, extends the life of the core.

Two, makes it safe to work top side. And for divers to work below.

Three. Allows for cleaning of the main condensers. And many other PM’s.

Four, pier side. There is less a available sea water for dumping waste heat and more chance of fouling the main condensers with crap from the sea.

Five. A shut down reactor is safer for being pier side. And requires less watch standers which gives better quality of life for when the crew is in port. And allows for less pier side restrictions.

a reply to: neutronflux

I'm talking about under way


what if there is a problem with the batteries to start the pumps and you cant start the reactor again in the middle of the china see being chased by surface ships, just going to sit there and wait to be found and forced to the surface?


or leave the reactor running the whole time they are underway, from time to time dump and refill the cooling tanks.


if sea based reactors are so efficient not to need cooling towers and all their heat energy is turned to electrical power or mechanical energy why don't we do that on land based reactors seems like alot of wasted heat in all that steam blowing out the top of cooling towers.


are you saying the NAVY has figured out how to break the first law of thermodynamics?

a reply to: penroc3

You

what if there is a problem with the batteries to start the pumps and you cant start the reactor again in the middle of the china see being chased by surface ships, just going to sit there and wait to be found and forced to the surface?

I posting about being in port to complete preventative shutdown maintenance, and placing the reactor in a safe state.

or leave the reactor running the whole time they are underway, from time to time dump and refill the cooling tanks.

What cooling tanks?

The core gives up heat to the primary loop. The primary loop dumps its heat to the second loop through heat exchangers called steam generators. As long as the secondary is making steam, the core has a place to dump its heat.

The secondary loop is a steam cycle. Heat from the reactor through the primary loop and the steam generators makes steam. The steam looses its energy in the electrical steam turbines which are constantly running when there is sufficient steam being made. Then there is steam on demand for main engines for the shaft. After the steam is used in the turbines, waste heat is removed from the steam in the heat exchangers called the main condensers. The steam is retunes to water, the water is fed back into the steam generators to start again.

If your this clueless, give it up dude.

Only the heat has to be removed. That can be done through a series of heat exchangers with the surrounding seas as the ultimate heat sink.

If you loose your heat sinks. The reactor scrams so heat production is stopped.

if sea based reactors are so efficient not to need cooling towers

They have a of pool of water called the ocean to act as a heat sink. Not some small a$$ cooling tower.

and all their heat energy is turned to electrical power or mechanical energy

Quote where I ever posted such a thing.

The main condensers take the waste heat and exchange it with the sea water. They literally condense the Steam plant steam used to take the heat from the primary reactor cooling loop form the reactor via steam generators and change the steam back to water used in the steam cycle of the secondary plant.

are you saying the NAVY has figured out how to break the first law of thermodynamics?

Your utterly clueless. Quote where I posted such a thing.


Again…

How Nuclear Reactors Work

In a typical design concept of a commercial PWR, the following process occurs:

The core inside the reactor vessel creates heat.
Pressurized water in the primary coolant loop carries the heat to the steam generator.
Inside the steam generator, heat from the primary coolant loop vaporizes the water in a secondary loop, producing steam.
The steamline directs the steam to the main turbine, causing it to turn the turbine generator, which produces electricity.
The unused steam is exhausted to the condenser, where it is condensed into water. The resulting water is pumped out of the condenser with a series of pumps, reheated, and pumped back to the steam generator. The reactor's core contains fuel assemblies that are cooled by water circulated using electrically powered pumps. These pumps and other operating systems in the plant receive their power from the electrical grid. If offsite power is lost, emergency cooling water is supplied by other pumps, which can be powered by onsite diesel generators. Other safety systems, such as the containment cooling system, also need electric power. PWRs contain between 150-200 fuel assemblies.

www.nrc.gov...

The sea is the “cooling tower” for a nuclear sub.

The same with the subs air conditioning units. The ocean is the cooling tower for the subs AC.

For the diesel generator, the sea is its “radiator”.

See a pattern…..

a reply to: neutronflux

im not going to ague with you.



what happens to the over boiling hot water once its past the cooling loop? are you saying a radiator is using open ocean water to cool it?


that means that it is leaving a trail of warm water behind it.


a nuclear reactor can be tailored to a certain application but the rector and its coolant have a positive temperature coefficient so at ONE point or another it will have to dump the waste heat INTO something it will be as hot as the steam in the pipes, you cant use that for heating or hot water as it would scald people.

but you clearly know that sub reactors are 100% efficient and there is no waste heated AT all and it is all used by the subs thermi8oinc converters and turbines to extract all the work from the super heated steam and the coolant returns to the holding tank ice cold.

answer me why land based reactors have cooling towers.

ETA

calling me names is against the T and C's and the refuge for a person losing an augment

a reply to: penroc3

better yet can you do a quick MS pain drawing of what your trying to explain, it just might be getting lost in translation


here is a simple drawing of what i am asking



you cant keep using the same coolant unless there is something cooling it off past the loop and all the other stuff.

all i was asking is how does a sub get rid of waste heat.

a reply to: penroc3

I explained it over again. Cited material. It’s up to you to figure it out.

a reply to: penroc3



man.fas.org...

The only thing missing in the picture is the sea water pumps, and a flow path through the condenser for the sea water to keep the condenser at operating temperature.

a reply to: neutronflux

so the water cooling the condenser is kept cool how and if it is just a constant steam of filtered seawater it would still leave a trail, unless the coolants coolant is kept on the bot until it can vent it?


is it chilled with cryo liquids like N2 or even CO2?

i really am asking btw.


in the station i worked at for a good few months it was really wild to see how much waste heat was let go into the atmosphere via the cooling towers and all the steam coming out of them.

the reason i am brining up the cooling towers over and over again is because that is like the 'exhaust' if you will for the heat, so the water can recondense and dump all the heat out of it so it is more efficient

where is whatever is cooling the condenser getting rid of all its heat? it cant be back into the system.

i really don't get why you are being kind of nasty, i am asking you a question and sharing my knowledge of land based reactors and the very little i know about shipborne reactors

I thought that is what this whole site was about. It would look better to just try and help me understand than to call me names.

I bet you i know more about chemistry and medical stuff than you do and would be happy to share it and i would never call any one names or tell them to go look it up on their own.

you are the expert here right? Or do you just get a kick out insulting people?

a reply to: penroc3

You

but you clearly know that sub reactors are 100% efficient and there is no waste heated AT all and it is all used by the subs thermi8oinc converters and turbines to extract all the work from the super heated steam and the coolant returns to the holding tank ice cold.

Quote where I ever posted there are 100% efficient?

Hello McFly…

The main condensers take the waste heat and exchange it with the sea water. As in dump the waste eat fo the surrounding sea.

a reply to: neutronflux

again with the name calling

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: penroc3

You

but you clearly know that sub reactors are 100% efficient and there is no waste heated AT all and it is all used by the subs thermi8oinc converters and turbines to extract all the work from the super heated steam and the coolant returns to the holding tank ice cold.

Quote where I ever posted there are 100% efficient?

Hello McFly…

The main condensers take the waste heat and exchange it with the sea water. As in dump the waste eat fo the surrounding sea.

that is what i have been saying, jesus christ

if you are dumping the 'coolent' for the heat exchanger in the cold ocean you will leave a trail of warm water. cant always be in the gulf stream or other warm water, let alone port.

originally posted by: penroc3

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: penroc3

You

but you clearly know that sub reactors are 100% efficient and there is no waste heated AT all and it is all used by the subs thermi8oinc converters and turbines to extract all the work from the super heated steam and the coolant returns to the holding tank ice cold.

Quote where I ever posted there are 100% efficient?

Hello McFly…

The main condensers take the waste heat and exchange it with the sea water. As in dump the waste eat fo the surrounding sea.

that is what i have been saying, jesus christ

if you are dumping the 'coolent' for the heat exchanger in the cold ocean you will leave a trail of warm water. cant always be in the gulf stream or other warm water, let alone port.

How is one little sub going to creative a “heat trail” any different than any other ship that uses sea water cooling for numerous applications that wouldn’t immediately dissipate in the millions of gallons that is the ocean, that water flow through the condensers is kept at a volume that keeps sea water creatures from fouling up the tubes (the small sea life isn’t cooking to the tube), be detectable through thick layers of sea water, and through thermoclines of the ocean.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: neutronflux

again with the name calling

One. Because you are making false claims about what I post. You you cannot answer the simplest of questions.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: penroc3

and all their heat energy is turned to electrical power or mechanical energy

Quote where I ever posted such a thing.


Two. Because it seems you cannot read what is actually posted and cited.

Are you a Chinese spy trolling for information? Or generally clueless?

a reply to: penroc3

You

dumping the 'coolent'

And for the thousandth time. Coolant is not being dumped to maintain temperature

The fuel pellets gives up the heat of fission to the primary coolant. The primary coolant / liquid stays in the primary loop. The primary loop gives its heat up to the water in the second loop through a physical boundary called the steam generator which is a heat exchanger. The steam generator makes steam for turbine generators that run as a base load. The main turbine propulsion engines have steam as needed. The secondary loop has waste heat removed to return the steam to water by giving its waste heat up across physical tubes in the main condensers to sea water. The sea water flow through the main condensers is great enough to keep temperatures low to prevent fouling/cooking sea critters to the condenser tubes like any ship that used sea water cooling for any number of applications on a conventional ship.

a reply to: neutronflux

i get that



i know the primary coolant isn't being dumped, i was talking about the so called condensers cooling setup.

it has to be cooled by something so the water can cool back down. otherwise it would just heat up and not condense anything
'

there has to be SOMETHING cooling the condenser off, i could see using liquid co2 or n2 and than repressurizing the co2 or n2 with the power from the main shaft.

a condenser needs to be cold so the steam will undergo a phase change to water for storage.

a reply to: neutronflux

its a sub it is ment to be stealth that would be like saying why is a 777 bigger on radar than a B2

one was made for quite and secret running the other was not.


if i were Chinese i would already know

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: neutronflux

its a sub it is ment to be stealth that would be like saying why is a 777 bigger on radar than a B2

one was made for quite and secret running the other was not.


if i were Chinese i would already know

What are you jabbering about. The warm sea water ejected by the main condensers has its heat immediately dissipated into the surrounding water, shielded from detection by layers of sea water, and layers of thermoclines.

Might look up why it’s easy to detected volcanic eruptions from space with infrared cameras for surface volcanoes pushing heat into the atmosphere. but useless for summered volcanoes.

I think its along the same lines why trying to use radar under water is useless.

a reply to: neutronflux

you must be a joy to be around in real life


if you are venting near boiling water you will leave a trail.


just how it is, like cavitation on screws sure you can decrease it nut not get rid of it.


you just basically agreed with what i have been saying this whole time



i was simply asking if the cooling water for the condensers was dumped over board, first you make me sound like a fool for asking, then say they dump it over board and try to equate near boiling water to a freaking volcano.....


I've lost interest in you and this conversation.

you don't have any real information and if you did you would be breaking your security oath going any further so thank you for your time.

a reply to: penroc3

You
[quite]
if you are venting near boiling water you will leave a trail.


Would you read what is posted

Again… and again….

The sea water flow through the main condensers is great enough to keep temperatures low to prevent fouling/cooking sea critters to the condenser tubes

Sea water cooling through the condensers is great enough to keep temperatures low.

just how it is, like cavitation on screws sure you can decrease it nut not get rid of it.

Why can’t you do your own research…

Do submarines have to travel very slowly to avoid cavitation and/or detection? Does this limit their usefulness?

www.quora.com...

Modern subs are faster underwater than they are on the surface. A streamlined body moving in a straight line at a constant speed, deeply immersed presents the simplest case of resistance. Since there is no free surface, there is no wave formation and therefore no wave-making resistance.

Since cavitation is a function of hydrostatic pressure, increasing hydrostatic pressure (i.e. depth) will reduce the likelihood of cavitation. Submarines are uniquely susceptible to depth effects and cavitation as the depth of the submarine affects hydrostatic pressure at the propeller blades. When operating at shallow depth, hydrostatic pressure is decreased and the propeller cavitates at lower shaft rpm and low thrust loading. As a submarines depth increases, hydrostatic pressure increases and cavitation inception is delayed. Therefore, a submarine can operate at higher speeds at deeper depths with little worry about cavitation.

A little discipline and knowing how fas you can spied up the main shaft for a certain depth prevents screw cavitation.