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Secret aircraft crash in 1987 ?

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posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

Very true about the RAM due to the composition (plastics, adhesives, etc.). Also, burning composite materials also release lots of nasty toxic substances. It's a significant factor in modern airplane crashes.

As an aside, I wish people would stop spreading the myths about elite cleanup teams that sanitize crash sites. Utter rubbish.



posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 05:49 PM
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originally posted by: Shadowhawk
a reply to: JIMC5499

Very true about the RAM due to the composition (plastics, adhesives, etc.). Also, burning composite materials also release lots of nasty toxic substances. It's a significant factor in modern airplane crashes.

As an aside, I wish people would stop spreading the myths about elite cleanup teams that sanitize crash sites. Utter rubbish.


No truth in the story of the Bakersfield crash getting cleaned up and the remains of an F101 Voodoo being strewn over the area instead, as Nick Cook alleges?



posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: Ghoul

yeah but not the OST, they are part of the secret service.


the AF has their own clean up crews.

why would the AF call in OST to help them pick parts of a drone out of the ground?

that would be like the FBI directing traffic.

there WAS something that fell out of the sky that was radioactive, the OST pretty much only deals with that kind of thing.

I know they used polonium in early coatings of RAM to help bend the RADAR via its emissions.

If say a satellite with RTG's on it or even a craft of some type with RTG's crashed it would get the OST there.

the fact is there are pictures taken by a local radio host of the vans and was questioned by them, What would a team that is used for moving nuclear components around be doing picking up a conventional drone.

the 170 has no nuclear power sources or weapons.

The AF has teams READY to go to help and retrieve downed aircraft, even drones. Why wouldn't the AF have a recovery team ready when they are testing something out? Clearly it crashed and I'm sure they knew there was a risk of it crashing.

If it was a super secret aircraft the AF wouldn't get another agency involved unless it needed to.

why would it?


edit on 8-10-2021 by penroc3 because: spelling



posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Poon

Poon, there is absolutely no truth to Nick Cook's version of events regarding Bakersfield. Cook might have found that out for himself had he managed to visit the actual crash site, which he quite spectacularly failed to do. His description makes me think he must have ended up several miles away, and on the wrong side of the mountain.

There are two Bakersfield stories in play here. The first is the one spread by various Air Force and Lockheed personnel that the site was sanitized and salted with F-101 parts. The second is the alleged eyewitness account from "Amelia Lopez" who served was Cook's guide. Both stories are easily deconstructed, leaving the tale tellers to be charitably described as unreliable narrators.


Penroc3, I'm not sure what you're on about with regard to the OST and the Needles incident. I still have yet to see any concrete proof that there was a crash near Needles. Documentation? Photos? A pinpointed crash scene?

I have to admit that when I first heard the initial news reports, I was quite excited. Nothing ever quite came of it, though. Even the investigation by George Knapp proved disappointing.



posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: Shadowhawk



link

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there was a crash.

but i am willing to bet it wasnt an aircraft



posted on Oct, 8 2021 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Shadowhawk

the fact nothing came of it means they did their job.


and I am not a huge fan of Knapp but he puts his feet on the ground.


it wasn't just one or two people that saw the crash and even more saw the trucks and the people inside them.

I don't think it was a happy coincidence that this thing fell out of the sky and the men in trusted to move nukes around came to help secure what I assume is more than likely a RTG or something similar

I don't think something super cray crashed but the response to it is what I find interesting.


ALOT of radar and SAR and other imaging satellites use RTG's.

LLNL started making more of the plutonium for said RTG's under the guise of them being for Mars.

I think they used up all the special isotope they use on classified satellites and other low earth orbiting craft.

that way you don't need to have solar power and you can get pretty high power densities out of them.

the same stuff that powers RTG's can make a bomb and most RTG's have a few bombs worth of Plutonium in them hence the OST



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: penroc3

I've read all the articles including those that came out at the time of the alleged incident. So far I have yet to see any actual evidence. It's all just hearsay and rumors, and people trying to link unrelated elements together. Most important, no one has identified an actual crash site despite at least one supposed up-close witness.



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 12:10 AM
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a reply to: Shadowhawk

are you saying something didn't crash?


eta

what would convince you that a secret operation took place, maybe they hushed it up because they got their hands on a Russian OR Chinese satellite.

or maybe they didnt want to cause a panic

or it was a test of something that went wrong.


edit on 9-10-2021 by penroc3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 02:45 AM
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a reply to: penroc3
But you keep saying it was something nuclear, I mean okay why not. But.. if it was, then why the radioactivity measures didn't show anything at all ? I mean you just don't clean up a radioactive mess in a night or 2...

I mean if there was a crash that night, the probability of the 170 or another classified aircraft is possible. But a totally exotic thing with nuclear stuffs? I will need more evidence.
I mean there was crash of classified aircraft before, so there is a past to that and a certain pattern. But a crash of something exotic using nuclear thing... I think that's more than yet to prove lol. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I'm saying that some eye witness at night are definitely not enough and not an evidence since. And by definition eye witnesses are the lowest form of evidence amyways.


Considering shadowhawk statement, I also heard from a F-117 pilot that there was indeed a cleanup team after the Bakersfield incident. I don't know how true the F-101 part it is but I'm sure than when something classified crash, there might be a team to collect and clean up the scene. At least to remove the nasty stuffs like burnt RAM skin from the public areas. That's what I would tend to think and hope at least lol.



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: Shadowhawk

Thanks Shadowhawk, I wondered if the story had been embellished a little for his book



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 11:41 AM
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a reply to: Poon

As pertains to the Bakersfield incident in 1986, Nick Cook's overly melodramatic narrative relies heavily on the testimony of "Amelia Lopez" (not her real name), who claimed to have witnessed the accident. By 1996 she had become a Kern County Sheriff's deputy and agreed to guide Cook to the crash site.

In the prologue to "The Hunt For Zero Point" (Broadway Books, 2001) Cook wrote, "Over a rusted barbed-wire fence and we were into the scrub—with new traces of green at its tips from the spring rains. Beyond lay the edge of the Sequoia National Forest, a huge expanse of protected park and woodland. We left the broken fence posts behind and our cars were lost against the sunset.We reached the crash site soon after the sun dipped below the edge of the mountain. The summit was only 2,000 feet above us, but here the ground was even and covered in a crusty layer of dirt. The plants and trees were younger than the vegetation we'd passed on the way up. But that was the only real clue something had happened here."

This description immediately set off some red flags for me. There are no fences in close proximity to the crash site. This description suggests Cook started his hike from Rancheria Road, four miles west of the site. The easiest route from this point involves six or seven miles of winding dirt road (across private land, through two locked gates) up to the crest of the mountains, followed by a hike of nearly a mile down a steep ridge into the canyon. Alternately, an approach from the east would require crossing the Kern River and climbing up a rugged canyon for about a mile, with a 1,000-foot elevation gain. The crash site is located two miles inside the western boundary of Los Padres National Forest. This also indicates that Cook was heading east, meaning he would have to climb over the mountain and descend into the Kern River gorge. His description indicates they were hiking across open country and not on a road or trail. If they started as the sun was setting, they could never reach the crash site before dark. The airplane crashed in a steep, rugged canyon. The plants and trees don’t look noticeably different from those in the surrounding area. A few of the trees and larger bushes have charred trunks from the post-impact fire. There are two natural springs that flow year-round. Cook's description sounds nothing like this, and he failed to mention seeing the flagpole memorial the Air Force crew left in memory of the pilot. Even if the flag itself had deteriorated, which it did from time to time before being periodically replaced, the pole itself remained a prominent landmark.

"Amelia Lopez" claimed that in the early hours of July 11,1986, she and several friends "had been out partying with her college friends at a campsite near the Kern River." She recalled that just as she was settling into her sleeping bag there was a loud "sonic boom" and that "the entire horizon was flash-lit by an enormous explosion, the flames shooting skyward as the plane plowed into Saturday Peak ten miles away." She and her friends started hiking toward the crash scene but "hadn't gone more than five miles toward the impact point when one of them noticed a figure on the trail up ahead. The scrub either side of her erupted with movement and the next thing she knew her face was in the dirt and she had a boot in her back and a gun at her head. Out of the corner of her eye she saw that they were soldiers—not California National Guard, as might have been expected in an environmental emergency, but SWAT-types brandishing assault rifles, night-vision systems and a #-load of threats about government property and national security. Two of her friends started on about their rights under the Constitution, that this was public land and there wasn't a person on earth who could tell them to get off it. She screamed and she yelled and she flailed against the pressure in her back, until the next thing she felt was the slap from her roommate that brought her around. When she finally understood what she was being told, it was that the soldiers were gone."

There are so many things wrong with that story. To begin with, in the twisting canyons and mountainous terrain, it is unlikely (though not impossible) that witnesses 10 miles away would have seen or heard anything. Why would anyone hike such a long distance in the dark over rugged, mountainous terrain when you can drive to within a mile of the site? Why would soldiers hide in the bushes to ambush unauthorized persons rather than set up obvious checkpoints and barricades on roads and trails approaching the crash scene? Why would the soldiers suddenly disappear after detaining the intruders?

In fact, the accident occurred at 1:45 a.m. PDT. Local fire and police department officials were the first to respond to the accident scene. Air Force personnel from Edwards Air Force Base arrived shortly thereafter, but found that a brush fire made access to the impact site virtually impossible. At 3:00 a.m. PDT, a Divert Team was initiated at Tonopah Test Range and arrived at the crash site approximately eight hours after the plane struck the mountainside. Delays due to difficulty arranging transportation prevented the team from arriving sooner. Containment of the 150-acre brushfire hindered the team’s access to the site as it took 16 hours for county firefighters, who were not allowed into the immediate area of the crash site, to extinguish the blaze. The site was declared a National Defense Area to prevent entry by unauthorized personnel. Civilian overflights were restricted within a five-mile radius, below 7,000 feet altitude. Armed military guards and Kern County Sheriff’s deputies manned roadblocks at outer perimeter checkpoints.

Recovery efforts at the crash scene lasted three weeks. The story that the cleanup crew "sieved the dirt for a thousand yards out from the impact point" (sometimes described as "a thousand feet beyond the last recognizable debris") to sanitize the site was started after news reporters and hikers reported finding wreckage after the site was re-opened. Had an excavation of such scale taken place, the result would have stood out like a sand trap on a golf course. Such a dig would have been difficult to undertake on flat ground. The crash scene was a steep, rugged canyon with rocky outcrops. The most interesting element of the cover story was that the site had been salted with wreckage from "an old F-101 Voodoo that crashed at the test site some 20 years earlier" (according to aviation author Jim Goodall). What makes this fascinating is that they could have claimed to have used wreckage from any airplane but specifically chose a mishap that had occurred at Area 51 (a Nevada newspaper headline in September 1967 read "Super-Secret Nevada Base Crash Kills Jet Pilot").

It's theoretically possible that even failing to sanitize the Bakersfield site, crews could have intentionally contaminated the debris field with F-101 wreckage. Thus far, no one I am aware of has ever found any identifiable F-101 parts at Bakersfield but I know of multiple individuals that found pieces marked with part numbers specific to the F-117A. As for the physical characteristics of the crash scene, the impact crater remained visible into the early 1990s. By 1996 it had become overgrown but there was still a scattering of debris in the surrounding area.



posted on Oct, 9 2021 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: Ghoul

it might not have been scattered all over the place, RTG's can survive reentry and even the rocket blowing up on the pad.


they may have just gone out there to collect the sources that were still intact.



The fact another agency was involved even if it wasn't the OST means that way more landed/crashed that night than a simple kite drone.


The AF has all the resources and men ready to go if this was an AF drone that crashed .. and if it was some at the time secret drone or whatever they AF would NOT want anyone else there.

I wonder if anyone has done a FOIA request on travel vouchers for the OST on that date.



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