Secret aircraft crash in 1987 ?

Hello everyone,
I was reading about the F-117 accidents and I came across a crash that happened on November 16, 1987.
The website www.f-117a.com... says this :

"Some classified aircraft
November 16, 1987
Pilot: UNKNOWN (USAF)
Pilot killed in crash
A possible reported crash of a stealth aircraft occurred November 16, 1987. An aircraft, described by Pentagon sources as a top-secret stealth fighter, crashed in a rugged desert area, killing the pilot.

Major Victor Andrijauskas, a USAF official at Nellis AFB, Nevada, stated that the aircraft was flying over the Nellis gunnery range when it crashed. Another Pentagon official said at the time that the plane was similar to the one that crashed in California the year before.(1986)
This reference to Maj. Mulhare's crash is an example of the U.S. Air Force using the F-117A program to cover crashes of other types of secret aircraft."

It has been also confirmed on this article :
www.nytimes.com...

So an obvious guess would be a Nighthawk but here is the thing, every F-117 accident have been recorded so we have the date and registration of every aircraft (more or less) involved and it goes like this :
-April 20, 1982 first crash of the F-117
-11 July 1986 crash of the #81-792
-14 October 1987 crash of the #83-815
-04 August 1992 crash of the #85-801
There have been some after but they're not revelant date wise.

So what crashed was described as a stealth aircraft by officials and we know it probably wasn't an F-117. So let's have fun speculating right ?

My guess would be the alleged "companion", I think it could fit since it was already flying around this timeframe. But we know there's been a lot of classified technology demonstrator and prototype around this timeframe so it could be anything... or even something operationnal.
I was just surprised that this crash haven't been brought up yet on this forum so here it is.

And also RIP to the pilot involved in this accident. It must be tough for the family to maybe never know what caused the accident of a loved one.

a reply to: Ghoul

Mulhare was in the 4450th Tactical Group, which was an F-117 squadron. He was reported to be in 81-10792, the seventh production bird when he crashed near Bakersfield.

www.f-117a.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58
Yes but this is a different event, it was on another date and location ?
What you mention took place on Jan 7, 1986 in California while the one I'm talking about happened on November 16, 1987 in the Nellis Ranges apparently.
The website f-117a.com mention it on the category "other losses" and "unknown aircraft"

a reply to: Ghoul

Yes, but according to the Pentagon, as pointed out in your OP, it was similar to the aircraft that crashed in California, which was Mulhare in an F-117. So it may have been something new they were trying with an F-117, or another F-117 that they didn't publicize for some reason.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Wonder if it could have been a captured bird that they didn't want to advertise the USA had possession of. Thinking of the MiGs they used to fly in Nevada. IIRC, one crashed and killed the pilot, who happened to be a general officer.

Cheers

a reply to: Zaphod58

Since they knew the Nighthawk would be acknowledged the year after, could they have used it as a cover ? I mean I'm not saying thats the case of course (cause I don't know lol), but that wouldn't be the first time they would use a classified program to hide another one.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Yes General Bond crashed on a MIG-23

a reply to: Ghoul

Beyond the web site referenced in the OP, I have never heard of any crash on the Nevada Test and Training Range (NTTR) on that date (16 November 1987). Based on the date, and the reference to comments by Maj. Victor Andrijauskas, I strongly suspect that this was just another article about the 14 October 1987 crash of F-117A (83-0815). That is certainly the subject of the New York Times article cited above. In fact, I suspect that the alleged date of the mystery crash is really a typographical error and that it was actually 16 October 1987, when many of the articles about that F-117A mishap were published.


If you really wish to pursue some worthwhile mysteries, here are three examples:

1998 - classified aircraft, non-fatal, pilot ejected over the NTTR
December 2016 - classified aircraft, non-fatal, pilot ejected over the NTTR
21 May 2019 - unmanned aerial vehicle, "Group 4" class, crashed after takeoff

All of the above were charged to Air Force Materiel Command. Thus far, FOIA requests have yielded no results.

a reply to: Zaphod58

there may or may not be skin of a crashed 'nighhawk' still in the area of the crashes

but dont take it, turn it in.

or so am i told

you ever see any in your travels

a reply to: Shadowhawk

Thank you very much for your reply. I think i agree now that it probably was a misunderstanding and probably related to the precedent nighthawk crash. I talked with some persons who worked on the 117 who also confirmed me that it was probably a misunderstanding.

Considering the other crash you mentionned, I will take a look but I haven’t found anything yet.
But there is also this crash that have been reported that happened in 2017, which unfortunately took the life of a test pilot.

www.thedrive.com...

a reply to: Ghoul

Yes, I didn't list the September 2017 incident because it had already been discussed at some length on earlier ATS threads. It technically remains a mystery but I suspect the theory that it was a Su-27 is likely correct. FOIA requests to the Air Force are rejected as "No records found" despite requesters providing the date, pilot's name, approximate location, and operating MAJCOM. There are probably other unknown mishaps besides the three I cited but these have apparently not leaked to the public.

The July 1986 Bakersfield, California, incident was a "mystery aircraft" until November 1988, when the DoD declassified the existence of the F-117A and confirmed that the crashed plane (and the one of the NTTR in October 1987) had been a Nighthawk. Arguably, it wasn't much of a mystery considering that immediately after these accidents the news media accurately reported that they involved Lockheed-built "stealth fighters" operating from Tonopah Test Range. Similarly, the "mystery aircraft" that crashed on the Nevada Test Site in 1984, killing Lt. Gen. Robert Bond, was accurately reported as a MiG-23 shortly after the incident.

a reply to: Shadowhawk

Would you have a link for the thread about this accident ? I never saw it before.


I'm not sure about what I will say, but I've read that they admitted it was a MIG-23 so people would have an answer and would stop searching around tonopah. Like they cared more about the F-117 than the Migs so the migs ended up being a "cover" for the 117. Even tho it was already rumored that the US were flying migs, even the soviets knew about them.

a reply to: Shadowhawk

the MUCH cooler crash was in Needles

that just kind of slipped by with out many questions.


the OST from the Secret Service was there to collect something intresting, that should tell you whatever hit the ground had a nuclear component or some secret weapons.

also how it crashed was pretty neat.

a reply to: penroc3

The 2008 needles crash was a RQ-170

I was in the Navy from 1982 to 1987. During that time I personally know of the loss of ten aircraft. Three of them are pretty well known. The A-6 and A-7 lost over Syria in 83 and the F-111 lost over Libya in 86. Another one was recently brought back into the limelight. That would be the RF-4C lost in the Med in 87. The others, even with an exhaustive search, there's barely any information on them. Some of the information that IS there has the dates and some of the names wrong. A SH-3H Sea King helicopter was lost December 12th 1984 in the Indian Ocean. The helicopter was from my Squadron and a friend of mine was killed. Another was an F-14 lost in the North Atlantic in 87. Again I'm positive that it happened because I went into the water after the pilot. I have found information on both incidents that had the names and dates wrong.

This thread is discussing the crashes of classified aircraft in a time where computers were just coming into common use. Records were being kept as written or typed documents. I know for a fact that when I was in I kept my ability to type a close held secret. It was not unknown for someone with that skill to be transferred to a post that wasn't what they had trained for, just to type.

Sometimes what people think are conspiracies are just mistakes or negligence. Think about it. If you were trying to cover something up, you would want to have solid documentation, even if it was false. You wouldn't want to have discrepancies that might want to have people take a closer look.

These aircraft were operating out of Tonopah. I've read books on the history of the F-117. Until 1990 Tonopah was pretty much sheet metal hangars and trailers. The modern base wasn't completed until mid 1990. It wouldn't surprise me that records had been misplaced or misfiled.

a reply to: Ghoul

It's too bad no one ever managed to pinpoint the Needles crash site location. It would have been interesting to examine it.

There was supposedly an RQ-170 crash near Barstow, California, in October 2014. According to one source, local first responders were turned away from the scene by an Air Force roadblock. Another source claimed to have seen a television news report but that the station's news chopper was called away to cover the SpaceShipTwo crash near Mojave.

a reply to: Ghoul

no it wasn't

even if you HALF the speed it was seen flying at before the crash, it could not be the 170 and what made it glow???

usually crashing aircraft don't burn a deep blue purple and don't get the OST out to the site.

the AF and other contractors have their own clean up crews.

so what ever crashed there by definition of the agency that responded had a nuclear component or similarly dangerous materials.

a reply to: penroc3

the OST deals with a very few select items, and crashed drones aren't one of them.


and why do you think it was even an aircraft?

a reply to: penroc3

I suggest you this read, to me it would fit and makes sense.
aviationintel.com...

As for the "cleaning" team, that's totally normal. RAM skin is pretty nasty and if it burns I'm sure it is not a good idea to breathe it. And since the crash took place near populated area, it is better to make sure no one get exposed to it. As well to make sure nobody find airframe part, in 2008 the RQ-170 was still pretty classified and I think it wasn't admited by the air force yet.

originally posted by: Ghoul
RAM skin is pretty nasty and if it burns I'm sure it is not a good idea to breathe it.

Some of the coatings on it and the cement that holds the parts together aren't too healthy to be around when they are burning. They are finding out that Isocyanates can cause some major respiratory problems if their burning vapors are inhaled.