Two Simple Questions...???

a reply to: abago71

No it shouldn’t, mRNA is very fast acting and very short lived. You would see a reaction within days or weeks, depending on what part of immune system, innate or adaptive, is having issues. If you have an allergy then a booster could be dangerous. The Viral vectors insert a DNA plasmid, longer lasting but your cells aren’t going to let it sit there and express forever.

I’m looking forward to some of these studies at universities figuring out some of these pathways. They don’t make sense but the symptoms fit a problem with the complement system (AP or Lectin) or something going on with innate signaling. Both of which can influence clotting and some of these other inflammatory issues we see.

Herpes viruses we’re just stuck with, in fact with many viruses and bacteria, they still infect us even after vaccination. It’s just that we give the body the tools it needs to bind and breakdown toxins or stop the pathogen from gaining a foothold. It’s why we can’t beat HIV, it still binds, and the uses RT and integrase to integrate in active genes and that’s it.

Sadly, Phage lost "badly" tonight.

He foundered in his own argument.

As he hangs on the edge, we can choose to save him or let him fall...I choose to save him!

I actually like him!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DBCowboy

I lived in Waimea. It's a nice little hospital.

Their ICU only had 4 beds.

That is not plenty of beds.

I loved being there.

The staff and the folks there couldn't have ben nicer.

a reply to: SirHardHarry

I see headlines like all over my local news, but do you know what else I see? If you read them, a lot of those stories also have quotes where the workers at the hospitals admit that a lot of their patients are there for other reasons, not COVID. For example, the local children's hospital was very full, but many of the cases were the normal respiratory illnesses that did not happen over the winter because kids were kept home. In fact, very few of the kids were actually there for COVID.

So if you want to blame COVID for it, you had to blame the COVID lockdowns for keeping the kids from getting the normal seasonal illnesses in season. Instead they got all of them all at once and out of season.

a reply to: Phage

That tends to be the problem. The healthcare system, has for decades been in need of staff. Not to mention it appears most hospitals have small icu depts. however this area of concern in our healthcare system is greater than, whether or not someone is vaccinated or in the near future vaccinated by mandate in order to be part of society. Once again personally obviously most everything I contribute is opinionated I don’t think vaccines will be the answer to covid, it’s a virus similar to other corona viruses and influenza, it mutates etc. we will never cure it, however treating it we can learn how to do. The reality is covid-19, is going to be a virus, we will have to deal with the rest of our lives and those that come after us. It’s how we manage it and deal with it that is important. That’s what concerns me most. Healthy living, etc. I think is paramount at this point in mankind’s present history.

a reply to: ketsuko

In fact, very few of the kids were actually there for COVID.

But the fact that they have COVID complicates things in the hospital. Bigly. Right?

So if you want to blame COVID for it, you had to blame the COVID lockdowns for keeping the kids from getting the normal seasonal illnesses in season.

What? Is that what the kids are actually hospitalized for? They have COVID and measles? Something like that? Do you have data to support this? Or is it like, a broken leg because they forgot how to play outside safely? Yeah, that's it!

a reply to: Phage

I said regular seasonal respiratory viruses.

fox4kc.com...

They had 7 COVID cases. The rest were the normal summer illness cases + the ones they would normally have expected to see in the fall and winter.

So you can't blame COVID. It's a combination of circumstances of which COVID is one factor with no indication of whether or not COVID on its own would be a terrible overwhelming thing, but add it into the seasonal illnesses out of season and there is a problem.

a reply to: ketsuko

They had 7 COVID cases.

Your source:

On Monday, that number went up to 10.

The rest were the normal summer illness cases

How many is "the rest?"

a reply to: ketsuko

but do you know what else I see? If you read them, a lot of those stories also have quotes where the workers at the hospitals admit that a lot of their patients are there for other reasons, not COVID.

That's kinda the point. Hospitals are generally at X capacity (non covid), which they can handle. Add in the volume of Covid patients (deniers and antivaxxers), and that volume increases to the the point of stressed hospital resources.

you had to blame the COVID lockdowns for keeping the kids from getting the normal seasonal illnesses in season.

That's actually true. Same reason flu illnesses were considerably less. Less human interaction, less illness. That's how disease transmission works.

a reply to: SirHardHarry

And now those seasonal illnesses are also circulating and adding in. So the hospitals have regular load + seasonal illnesses out of season + COVID. The press wants to just blame COVID, but it's not just that.

Regular load + illnesses out of season? Possibly fine.

Regular load + COVID? Also possibly fine.

But it's wrong to say that COVID is the problem without factoring in the other. ER docs wouldn't mention it if it wasn't also a significant issue.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

I understood about 17% of that.
I have no knowledge of how vaccines and viruses actually work.
Well out of my wheelhouse, but thanks for the details.

I have never had chickenpox, but my mother and mother-in-law suffered from shingles.
I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

a reply to: Phage

Test results negative.
Back to the office on Monday.

Yay?

a reply to: ketsuko

But it's wrong to say that COVID is the problem without factoring in the other.

It's incorrect to say Covid isn't the problem.

When is the last time such hospital overload has occurred?

a reply to: abago71

Lol I’m sorry, viruses are basically biological machines they lack intent and they are at the mercy of their environment. All they do is reproduce and the resulting inflammation from our immune systems expresses their presence as disease. We don’t like foreigners in our bodies.

Bacteria are different in that they very much express intent. They form colonies in niches or special places in our bodies. They cause disease because they express virulence factors which form proteins that act as toxins in our bodies. They wait until they reach a critical mass, using something called quorum sensing or a communication network, and then release those toxins in a mass swarm that overwhelms us with inflammation and then we express disease.

Vaccines expose our immune system to proteins or structures in a virus or a bacterial toxin that are harmless in the vaccine form yet still give us a blueprint to neutralize those harmful antigens or antibody generating proteins. With a viral vaccine we target the external structure of the virus so it can’t get inside our cells. With a bacteria we target the harmful toxins that they release so they are neutralized and broken down before they cause harm.

Our immune system takes care of the rest and gets rid of the foreign pathogen over the course of days or weeks.

I pray I never get shingles, we had some young people at work get it this year and they were really hurting.

ETA: Most bacteria and viruses are harmless. We have 10x and 100x the amount of bacteria and viruses respectively in our bodies compared to our normal cells. They contribute to our microbiome which is essential to our survival.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

Isn't it kind of odd that the Shingles cases were in young people?

I always thought it was more of a middle age and up type 'thing'?

Thanks for rewording all that for me. I have a much better grasp now, I think.

How does a virus stay dormant for so long and then flare up, such as cold sores or shingles?

a reply to: lostgirl

It is but stress can negatively impact the immune system and it hides in the nerves. So it travels up the nerves and into tissue and the immune system goes after it and you get the tissue damage.

Older people get it because of loss of thymus and T cell and other functions so they can get flare ups or have other factors that influence it’s activation.

originally posted by: SirHardHarry
a reply to: ketsuko

But it's wrong to say that COVID is the problem without factoring in the other.

It's incorrect to say Covid isn't the problem.

When is the last time such hospital overload has occurred?

I didn't say it wasn't, but it's not the only part of the problem. The news wants us to think that all the sick kids are there because they have COVID and that if there were no COVID, there would be no problem, no sick kids. That's the intent of the headlines.

Let's think of it this way:

Say the hospital has 25 beds, but they have 10 kids with measles and 10 kids with diptheria. It's summer, and they expect 10 kids with measles in the summer because it's normal to have measles come through in the summer. What's unusual is for there to be diptheria in the summer because it's usually a winter illness. For whatever reason, it's circulating in the summer this particular year.

Then ... you have polio, and it's the newcomer. You also have 10 kids with it.

Now the hospital is five beds short.

But is it fair to write that the the only reason the hospital is overwhelmed is because of polio? The 10 kids with diptheria aren't usual for them either. It's entirely fair to say that if it weren't for the unusual spate of diptheria in the summer rather than winter, the hospital would be able to handle the burden, and it's fair to say that polio is part of the problem too because they hospital isn't used to having to handle it at all.

But both together are the problem and not either by itself. After all the hospital would have the capacity to handle the usual seasonal burden plus one or the other unusual burden.

a reply to: ketsuko

So what you are saying is the kids have got low vitamin D because of lockdowns and now are experiencing winter illnesses early in the season, I find that logical.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: SirHardHarry

Smoking related illness is a far greater burden on our healthcare systems, by a considerable margin.

True, lots of things are, but we do try to mitigate those, prevent them. How about car accidents, they cause a lot of fuss, thats why cars have ever improving safety ratings and design, and you have to wear a seatbelt.