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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk
I certainly understand your position and I really don't think you're wrong.
However and I don't mean that with any diminishing of our previous statements, allowing the ATF to arbitrarily change definitions and modify laws, bypassing congress is a direct infringement.
Additionally, acquiring a tax stamp is a months long if not a year waiting process.
Another instance of gross government overreach without oversight (atf is headless currently).
Fixing its existing systems, NICS and NFA namely would go a very long way to garnering public support.
Instead, we have this nonsense.
originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Allow me to throw out a couple "hills" which might be worthy...
Look at the climate around us. What if someone was to mount a credible effort to undo the '86 ban? Look at the states overturning concealed bans and licensing, what if the fed stepped in?. States clarifying open carry? What about ammunition taxing, or micro ID regs? These are all far more worthy "hills", don't you think?
originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: JinMI
I think it is a fools errand to fight legislation like this. These devices do not help 2A supporters, they only hurt 2A supporters.
I'm going to be perfectly honest here...as a lifelong rabid supporter of the 2A, firearms instructor, collector and avid shooter, this is one device/appliance I honestly can't get behind. They serve no constructive purpose other than to get around needing a tax stamp for an SBR. Plus, they drove a whole segment of the firearms market which never should have / would have existed otherwise, some of which are frankly dangerous.
And, this coming from a guy who believes people should be able to legally own machine guns, artillery, rockets and explosives!
So why my feelings on this particular device? I actually have several reasons:
a.) Chief among my reasons is, these devices are a textbook example of people trying to find and intentionally exploit loopholes in regulations, the result of which make the gun grabbers all that much more zealous in grabbing our firearms. Just flaunting specific words in a regulation to make a buck and thumb their nose at the gun grabbers.
b.) They allow a pistol to be turned into a 'rifle' (no biggie there). More importantly, they allow a firearm which technically (very narrowly) complies as a "pistol", but is really a rifle, to be turned back into a rifle, but with a much shorter barrel (an SBR). Which is perfectly legal, even after this ban, with a paid tax stamp.
c.) They drive a segment of the market which shouldn't exist for safety reasons. Why? They allow a rifle to have the stock removed, and the barrel shortened considerably, and be considered a "pistol". No brace required, right? So what's the issue? Well, in a low powered cartridge there is no big issue, but in a higher powered cartridge these 'pistols' become very difficult and unstable to shoot for all but highly experienced shooters, creating an unnecessary danger to the shooter and others around them. If a person wants a pistol, then buy a firearm which shoots pistol ammo. And if a person wants a rifle, then buy a firearm with a stock and a longer barrel which shoots more powerful rifle ammunition, in other words a rifle.
d.) They attract the wrong kinds of people to firearms. They serve no legitimate sporting, hunting or self-defense purpose (the three underpinnings of legitimate firearms ownership). Some may argue a self-defense purpose, but it's not real. The same purpose can be served by a pistol shooting pistol ammo, or a rifle shooting rifle ammo (or a shotgun). There is no situation which is so CQC/CQB that it demands a high power rifle cartridge to be fired from a pistol. So what customers does that leave? Bad guys, and people who see such a device as a feel-good novelty, like they got one over on uncle Sam. I don't care about the novelty guys too much, other than SMH, but I do care about the bad guys, and this is a perfect device for a mass shooting.
There's an old saying about leaving sleeping dogs lie; these devices do the exact opposite. They smack the sleeping dog with a stick, and then people wonder why they got bit, and why the dog is now snarling and ready to attack.
People need to realize, these devices are not even firearms. They're pieces of polymer, plastic and velcro for the most part. Big deal right? Yeah, it is a big deal, because some guy making some device in his garage and selling it to make a buck is causing the federal government to wake up and further encroach on firearms ownership.