This is the DATA, And this is alarming

I'm not vaccinated, and I have a lot of questions about it, but the way the data is presented in the OP's link is really misleading.

Firstly, you can clearly see on the charts that the number of cases begins to rise before the third shots for kids. That's incompatible with causation.

Secondly, he is presented children's vaccination against hospitalisations and deaths from all ages. Hardly any hospitalisations or deaths are children, and less than 20% are people under 60. So there can't be a relationship there either.

This is the kind of statistical torture that the 100% pro vax people use.

Have a look at the Israeli data for yourselves and make up your own minds:

datadashboard.health.gov.il...

It's pretty clear that the vaccines don't prevent infection. Israeli research has confirmed that their effectiveness for this reduces over time, hence the booster shot.

It's also clear that the vaccines are effective at reducing the number of people getting really sick or dying and the effect increases with age.

The question then comes back to risk vs benefit. If you are under 20 years old, there is basically no benefit as the chances of you getting very sick are almost zero. So don't take the shots. If you are 20-30 and healthy, there is very little benefit and again don't take the shot. As you get above 40 years old the risk reduction becomes clearer, which will always be skewed towards people who are less healthy.

That's probably not a popular message but it is what the data says. The UK data is not as detailed, but it supports that conclusion.

Those are the health considerations only; the whole vax passport thing is a whole other issue, and is the main reason for people to resist getting the vax.

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

Even if you have naturally occurring asymptomatic carriers, creating more of them with a leaky vaccine, will only increase the numbers and thus increase the spread of infections. Which is what I said in the first place.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Ummm... no. The virus itself doesn't kill people.

The side effects of the virus - basically pneumonia or pneumonia like illness in the lungs - is what kills people.

Isn't that like saying it's not the bullet that kills someone, it's the wound the bullet causes to the respitory system that kills people?

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
Even if you have naturally occurring asymptomatic carriers, creating more of them with a leaky vaccine, will only increase the numbers and thus increase the spread of infections. Which is what I said in the first place.

My recommendation to you, young man, is that you leave the ivory towers of ABoveTopSectectra, and become an immunologist. Show the World how shxt is done with your superior knowledge. Put the world to rights. Those studpid PhDs and MDs with their agendas, training all these years just to pull the wool over our eyes. It's you, and you alone, with your powerful opinions (in front of your laptop or computer and pacing other forums) that can save the world from this virus. Ivermectin all the way!

originally posted by: zvezdar
I'm not vaccinated, and I have a lot of questions about it, but the way the data is presented in the OP's link is really misleading.

Firstly, you can clearly see on the charts that the number of cases begins to rise before the third shots for kids. That's incompatible with causation.

Secondly, he is presented children's vaccination against hospitalisations and deaths from all ages. Hardly any hospitalisations or deaths are children, and less than 20% are people under 60. So there can't be a relationship there either.

This is the kind of statistical torture that the 100% pro vax people use.

Have a look at the Israeli data for yourselves and make up your own minds:

datadashboard.health.gov.il...

It's pretty clear that the vaccines don't prevent infection. Israeli research has confirmed that their effectiveness for this reduces over time, hence the booster shot.

It's also clear that the vaccines are effective at reducing the number of people getting really sick or dying and the effect increases with age.

The question then comes back to risk vs benefit. If you are under 20 years old, there is basically no benefit as the chances of you getting very sick are almost zero. So don't take the shots. If you are 20-30 and healthy, there is very little benefit and again don't take the shot. As you get above 40 years old the risk reduction becomes clearer, which will always be skewed towards people who are less healthy.

That's probably not a popular message but it is what the data says. The UK data is not as detailed, but it supports that conclusion.

Those are the health considerations only; the whole vax passport thing is a whole other issue, and is the main reason for people to resist getting the vax.

Matey, that's descriptive data. It's counts and summaries. There is a whole other level to statistics that I am sure you know about. Tell us more about your interpretation. I'd love reassurance from you. Hell, we all would.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

And we are back to the beginning, They should vaccinate the most vulnerable and just move on. You don't need to vaccinate everyone to "flatten the curve" on hospitalizations.

originally posted by: bladerunner44

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: elementalgrove

The vaccines were never meant to give sterilizing immunity. They were developed to keep you out of the hospital, since healthcare resources were stretched past their limit.

Do you really believe that? Spoken like someone who is vaxed and is rationalizing. Good luck to you.

Heres another vaxed that remembers the goal. If the vaccine reduces covid severity to that of a bad cold and keeps thousands out of the hospital with serious disease, why are you mad?

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Please could you explain why? I'm confused because of what the peer reviewed publications say and I need your help to break it down and provide a critque.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

originally posted by: Shoujikina
a reply to: tanstaafl
"Ummm... no. The virus itself doesn't kill people.

The side effects of the virus - basically pneumonia or pneumonia like illness in the lungs - is what kills people. "

Isn't that like saying it's not the bullet that kills someone, it's the wound the bullet causes to the respitory system that kills people?

No. A virus is not a bullet.

Everyone in the entire world has literally hundreds of trillions of viruses living in their body, all the time.

Some virus' are worse than others, but almost all require a certain unhealthy terrain in the body to get a foothold to attack and wreak their havoc.

The fact is, most people who are exposed to this particular virus won't even know it, some/many will have minor symptoms (like a minor cold, sniffle/cough), some will have more severe symptoms (like a bad flue), while a few can die if not treated properly.

A bullet doesn't give a crap-crud about the state of the terrain in your body, it causes physical damage, sometimes deadly, sometimes not.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

You seem to be confused. I never said anything about doomporn or you being vaccinated. The only thing I said is i can see why infections would be increasing in Israel with the vaccine possibly creating asymptomatic carriers. You didn't seem to like me saying that for some reason. I don't know why.

Then you started trying to have a go at me. You are the only one that kept moving goal posts; fist it wasn't possible, because their is no virus in the vaccine, then it was there are asymptomatic carriers among the unvaccinated, then it was it was only designed to stop hospitalizations, etc. I have only been saying what i have been saying from the beginning.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

You seem to be confused. I never said anything about doomporn or you being vaccinated. The only thing I said is i can see why infections would be increasing in Israel with the vaccine possibly creating asymptomatic carriers. You didn't seem to like me saying that for some reason. I don't know why.

Then you started trying to have a go at me. You are the only one that kept moving goal posts; fist it wasn't possible, because their is no virus in the vaccine, then it was there are asymptomatic carriers among the unvaccinated, then it was it was only designed to stop hospitalizations, etc. I have only been saying what i have been saying from the beginning.

I didnt say you directed doom porn toward me, but I clarified that its the only complaint I have about this covid vaccine debate. I neither encourage or discourage others and have ALWAYS said, dont want the vax dont take it. I dont agree with mandates of any kind. Still Im attacked constantly for taking the vax, as if its anybodies business but my own.

It isnt possible that the vaccine is GIVING COVID TO PEOPLE to make them spread it to others. In fact, if the case of covid that they came down with in spite of the vax is less severe and less symptomatic, does not make the vaccinated MORE DANGEROUS to YOU, it makes it less. My need for a hospital bed may be less likely, therefore more available to you! This is my only position. No posts moved. Dont want the vax, dont take it.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

You seem to be confused. I never said anything about doomporn or you being vaccinated. The only thing I said is i can see why infections would be increasing in Israel with the vaccine possibly creating asymptomatic carriers. You didn't seem to like me saying that for some reason. I don't know why.

Then you started trying to have a go at me. You are the only one that kept moving goal posts; fist it wasn't possible, because their is no virus in the vaccine, then it was there are asymptomatic carriers among the unvaccinated, then it was it was only designed to stop hospitalizations, etc. I have only been saying what i have been saying from the beginning.

This is a great interpretation. Please can you provide insight into the modelling you have done? Statisticians are really annoying and we all need to follow your science.

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

You seem to be confused. I never said anything about doomporn or you being vaccinated. The only thing I said is i can see why infections would be increasing in Israel with the vaccine possibly creating asymptomatic carriers. You didn't seem to like me saying that for some reason. I don't know why.

Then you started trying to have a go at me. You are the only one that kept moving goal posts; fist it wasn't possible, because their is no virus in the vaccine, then it was there are asymptomatic carriers among the unvaccinated, then it was it was only designed to stop hospitalizations, etc. I have only been saying what i have been saying from the beginning.

I didnt say you directed doom porn toward me, but I clarified that its the only complaint I have about this covid vaccine debate. I neither encourage or discourage others and have ALWAYS said, dont want the vax dont take it. I dont agree with mandates of any kind. Still Im attacked constantly for taking the vax, as if its anybodies business but my own.

It isnt possible that the vaccine is GIVING COVID TO PEOPLE to make them spread it to others. In fact, if the case of covid that they came down with in spite of the vax is less severe and less symptomatic, does not make the vaccinated MORE DANGEROUS to YOU, it makes it less. My need for a hospital bed may be less likely, therefore more available to you! This is my only position. No posts moved. Dont want the vax, dont take it.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You are making all kinds of assumptions; creating strawmen, from what I said and then are attacking your own assumptions, as if I said them.

I never said the vaccine gives you covid. That was your first assumption. I never said the vaccinated were "more dangerous" than the unvaccinated. I never mentioned hospitalization or death. Those all strawmen you have created.

I get it, you have been attacked on this forum by others and are now in a state of hyper vigilance; aka paranoia. I personally didn't attack you, just as I never asserted any of the assumptions you made about what I said.

I will say it again. "I can see why the infection rates are exploding in Israel, when the vaccines can possibly be creating asymptomatic carriers, like typhoid mary." I still stand by that statement. You don't have to agree or even like my opinion. If you want to refute that opinion, then do so, but do so honestly, not by making assumptions and putting words I never said, into my mouth. Those are just flawed and weak discussion and debate tactics.

originally posted by: MrNewWorldOrder

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters

originally posted by: BrujaRebooted

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
If the vaccinated can become asymptomatic super spreaders like Mary Mallon; Typhoid Mary, then the vaccinations would accelerate the spread of the virus. Asymptomatic spreaders, don't feel sick, don't self isolate and continue to spread the disease.

How can that work with mRNA vaxes? There is no covid virus involved, dead or alive.

Easy. They get infected with covid and their symptoms are reduced by the vaccine, but they still spread it like an asymptomatic carrier, which is what mary mallon was for typhoid. It's not really that hard to understand.

Similarly to those that are unvaxed but have asymptomatic covid?

Possibly, but since the vaccine only reduces symptoms, the vaccinated would be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers, than unvaccinated. Since their symptoms are being reduced after all, but not necessarily their ability to infect.

I dont think the goal was to eliminate all covid infections. The goal is to reduce the severity so that our hospitals and medical infrastructure isnt overwhelmed due to the highly contagious virus burning thru the population.

Creating more asymptomatic carriers would be counter intuitive to that goal then.

Asymptomatic carriers dont need hospitalization! Creating many less severe infections is the goal!

How about we do the best we can with a rapidly mutating highly contagious virus and no tried and true treatment to cover something largely unknown and unnatural?

There is also a relationship between viral load and contagiousness. Less load means less virus is shedding from the person.

But lets complain that its not a perfect world.

Dont want the vax, dont take it.

I am not complaining. You seem to be. I don't and I am not.

And as far as viral load their is already studies showing that the vaccinated can have as high a viral load as unvaccinated, so I am not sure what your point about viral load is.

First of all, show me one complaint Ive made. I complain against doom porn, directed toward me for taking the vax. Thats it.

And now youve once again moved the goal posts to the total elimination of the covid virus, and if you cant have that you want nothing.

Its true that vaxed can have a severe case of covid. Some are hospitalized, and have high viral load.

The goal is to reduce the number of such cases. Less severe is good. Why is this hard to understand?

You seem to be confused. I never said anything about doomporn or you being vaccinated. The only thing I said is i can see why infections would be increasing in Israel with the vaccine possibly creating asymptomatic carriers. You didn't seem to like me saying that for some reason. I don't know why.

Then you started trying to have a go at me. You are the only one that kept moving goal posts; fist it wasn't possible, because their is no virus in the vaccine, then it was there are asymptomatic carriers among the unvaccinated, then it was it was only designed to stop hospitalizations, etc. I have only been saying what i have been saying from the beginning.

This is a great interpretation. Please can you provide insight into the modelling you have done? Statisticians are really annoying and we all need to follow your science.

I never claimed to do any modeling. I don't have the resources to gather data in Israel, just like you don't either. I am only going by what I have read and I formed my opinion from that. You may not like that either, but I don't really care. I am not making a scientific claim either. I haven't told anyone to take or not take the vaccine.

Since your such a scientist you explain or give your opinion on why the numbers are rising in Israel. I am sure have all the data, modeling and answers, right?