Look at the Covid numbers then explain to me again how good the vax is

a reply to: AaarghZombies

I take it that you'll be happy to show how you reached this conclusion, including the exact numbers you used and where you sourced them from?

ijhpr.biomedcentral.com...

Abstract
As of the end of 2020, the State of Israel, with a population of 9.3 million, had administered more COVID-19 vaccine doses than all countries aside from China, the US, and the UK. Moreover, Israel had administered almost 11.0 doses per 100 population, while the next highest rates were 3.5 (in Bahrain) and 1.4 (in the United Kingdom). All other countries had administered less than 1 dose per 100 population.

I've used this chart but most are similar show the same thing
www.worldometers.info...

December 2020 Death rate 0.88%, Sept Death Rate 0.72%
Yes, that is a decline, but is is a huge sweeping drastic decline, absolutely not

New Daily Coronavirus Cases+Cured
New Cases vs. New Recoveries
(Number of newly infected vs. number of recovered and discharged patients each day)

Mass vaccines Dec 2020
You tell me what happens after Dec/Jan/Feb, it sure as heck isn't a decline
Feb 6,2021 18K recoveries (again patients dischaged, meaning they were sick enough to go to the hospital)
We don't have enough data yet to guage this fall, we will by Feb 2022.

I'd also be curious how you broke down cases where people were sick with covid, and where they were merely contaminated with trace amounts. This is particularly relevant since Israel has an extremely low death rate.

See above.
Again take any chart you like, we're not going to be 100% so we have to look at it as a whole and look at trends.

If you quickly look at all the charts, it really is saying Covid is seasonal, It is probably best handled with Social distancing and Masks or everyone can just accept this is going to be around a long time just like Coronavirus has been

a reply to: KindraLabelle2

I'm not sure where you're getting your statistics.

I'm from the UK which has high vaccine rate. Infections are shooting up but hospitalisations and deaths are not.

It's simple to see, Google, 'UK Covid Stats'.

Warning, following the above advice may result in cognitive dissonance.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I think you're onto something with your 2nd conclusion, almost like the 'vaccine' heightens the mutation response by covid.

Sort of like the more you vaccinate the more the virus mutates. These mutations may not necessarily be stronger, or weaker, just different.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: JAGStorm

I think you're onto something with your 2nd conclusion, almost like the 'vaccine' heightens the mutation response by covid.

From what we've been told Delta is 60% more contagious, if so these numbers make zero sense. The only thing that makes sense is something is causing more infections, or Delta is a lot more contagious than they want to let on.

I'm still reading charts from other countries. It's hard because none of these charts are accurate, so we can only generalize right now.

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: KindraLabelle2

I'm not sure where you're getting your statistics.

I'm from the UK which has high vaccine rate. Infections are shooting up but hospitalisations and deaths are not.

It's simple to see, Google, 'UK Covid Stats'.

Warning, following the above advice may result in cognitive dissonance.

The links are posted in my OP

For UK:

new daily case:
- sept 2nd 2020 = 1508
- sept 2nd 2021= 37830

Deaths
-sept 2nd 2020= 10
-sept 2nd 2021= 178

and from your own 'source'
daily hospital admissions

-aug 30 2020= 77
-aug 30 2021= 985


You are right, it IS simple to see,
but you have to be willing to open your eyes

originally posted by: KindraLabelle2
The link below are the official Covid numbers for my country (Belgium). They are available for anyone and yet no one is looking at them!
I'm sure these numbers are available for the country that you live in and I want to ask you to look them up and see if the results that you see are the same then what I see.

Open the link, set the date range from exactly one year ago to this day and watch how a country with an 85% vaccination rate is having double numbers compared to a year ago.

sciensano covid numbers Belgium summary

Then find the numbers for your country. I would really like to see if the results are the same

and please...
someone tell me again what good the vaccines are doing?
Because the infection numbers are double then a year ago,
Deaths are more then double compared to a year ago (when there were no jabs available yet!)
Hospitalizations are tippled
...

Here's what conventional epidemiology theory would say:

In epidemiology the basic reproduction number, denoted Rzero is the expected number of new cases directly generated by one case in a population where all individuals are susceptible to infection.

Numerically, Rzero = c x T x P, where c is the number of contacts an infected person has per unit time, T is the length of time the infected person remains contagious, and P is the probability of transmitting the infection given that a contact takes place. In simple epidemic theory, Rzero is treated as a constant.

In the beginning of an epidemic caused by a novel virus (like Sars-Cov-2 in 2020), essentially everyone in the population is susceptible. But, as time goes by and some people develop natural immunity as a result of being infected and others develop immunity due to vaccination, the fraction of the population that is susceptible goes down. The effective reproduction number, Reff, takes into account the fraction of the population that is susceptible to infection at any point in time. Numerically, Reff = Rzero x (1 – M), where M is the fraction of the population that has acquired immunity. In the beginning of the epidemic of a novel virus, M = 0, so Reff exactly equals Rzero, but as M increases over time, Reff will get smaller and smaller relative to Rzero.

When Reff is greater than 1.0, the number of cases will grow exponentially, when Reff is less than 1.0, the number of cases will decline towards zero, and when Reff is exactly equal to zero, the number of cases in the population will remain steady. The herd immunity threshold is defined as the fraction of the population with immunity that is necessary to produce Reff = 1.0.

In the beginning of the pandemic, Rzero for Sars-Cov-2 was estimated as ≈ 8. Currently (according to IHME) only about 70% of the population is fully vaccinated.

covid19.healthdata.org...

About another 10% have natural immunity from being infected according to sciencsano, so M ≈ 0.8, and (1 – M) ≈ 0.2. Everything else being equal, this would predict that Reff right now should be 8 x 0.2 = 1.6, and the epidemic should be growing strongly. However, the data from sciensano shows that the actual Reff for Belgium right now is 1.09. I think the difference between what theory would predict for Reff and what it actually is is due to social distancing and mask use, which reduces c and P, in the equation for Rzero.

What you are not taking into account is how sensitive the equation for Reff is to small changes in M, as M gets closer to 1.0. For example, if M was actually 0.85 instead of 0.8, this would predict an Reff of 1.2, compared to 1.6. If M = .875, then Reff ≈ 1.0 and you would be at the herd immunity threshold. In other words, if Belgium had an additional 7.5% of its population with immunity from some combination of infection and vaccination you could be at herd immunity. This is why it is incorrect to conclude that “vaccination is not working”. You won't actually see a strong effect until you get very close to herd immunity threshold.

a reply to: 1947boomer

Thanks for the read, 3 times

You are probably right with the theoretical, not denying that, and your numbers come directly from Sciensano.

Rzero = c x T x P

they have basically admitted that there is little to no research on the Delta variant that allows them to determine the value of T and P.
So how do they come up with their numbers? Guess work?

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Basic science says that viruses become less deadly over time.

Nonsense. We wouldn't be still vaccinating against other diseases if that were true.

Nonsense. It’s the way viruses roll.

wrong post

a reply to: JAGStorm

Recoveries do not necessarily mean admitted to a hospital and discharged. It can also mean tested positive, sent home to quarantine and no reported issues within/after a 14 day period (as per WHO guidelines, infected persons are treated as recoveries after 14 days).

Getting a test in the first place could be a result of any number of reasons contact tracing, work requirements etc..

I made this OP the beginning of September

the infection numbers are double then a year ago,
Deaths are more then double compared to a year ago (when there were no jabs available yet!)
Hospitalizations are tippled

The above where the official numbers taken from the official Belgian Covid website Sciensano.

I don't know how many of you actually took a look at the link in the OP and saw these number for themselves, and can testify that what I said above in the quote was correct at the time of the OP,

But looking at that same time frame today... LOL... they have changed the numbers! It shows equal amounts now. Almost equal numbers for all statistics making it look like we were never doing worse then before the vaccines.
Boy do I wish I had taken screenshots when I posted it but I guess being able to fall back on this thread is better then nothing.

So, I discussed this topic in other threads as well and I said many times that we would begin the 4th wave end of october into November, with the peak in the middle to end of November.
A lot of you said it would not come to that anymore....
I said many times that if the 4th wave didn't come as I predicted, I would admit that the vaccines actually do work.

Well guess what?
No one likes to hear 'I told you so' but: t h e v a c c i n e s d o n o t w o r k !