China is building a giant spaceship

Not to worry, if it is has standard spec Chinese escalators on board, we can all sit back and let the ship slowly eat its entire crew.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Vector99

There was a theory that went like this. If a space ship took off in 1970 for some distant solar system later space ships would have overtaken it long before it had neared its destination, so any commitment to today's tech is bound to be a draining waste of time and money as the new tech comes online. Corporate billionaires like immediate and concrete rewards. Like Branson selling a ticket for what amounts to a fairground ride. As more research knowledge becomes available and computer simulations get going. I think the first attempt at a base on the moon, will be using robots to prefabricate any bases. They might even be the only presence of anything from Earth due to the biology of humans. In fact, the Moon might be the only place we go to simply because a simulator on Earth could operate a robot, with little signal delay. Whatever the base looks like it will have to be a terrestrial copy simply because our biology and psychology might not operate outside its terrestrial parameters. So either way, until robotics are far more advanced than they are now not a lot can happen.

That may be the way they do it, but robotic exploration is bullcrap. Just another way to keep humanity locked on the earth and under the thumb of the ever increasing surveillance and monitoring technology of the terrestrial governments.

The thing that really ticks me off with all the discussions of future planned space missions and the current efforts is, they are all busywork or just reinventing the wheel, meanwhile we are already decades behind where we should be.

The Apollo missions were suppose to continue. We were suppose to go back to the moon several times after, take samples and deposit the stuff to build a moon base by the late seventies and using the knowledge gathered there we were suppose to lay down the foundations of a mars colony by 2000. Those are not just wild claims those were planned future missions. The only reason all space exploration was stopped was purely because congress defunded every single one of the future missions. In fact the defunding of NASA reached the point that by 2000 they were having to out source cheap parts for rovers.

Meanwhile, while NASA was being defunded, the Pentagon, with it's astronomically large budgets continued to carry on their X-Plane projects, which already had a jet/rocket combination space craft; the X-15 North American, that they developed along side the public space program and was developed in the 60s. And as the public space effort was being hamstrung by funding problems, the US and Russian military dominated near space and the earth with satellites, ICBMs and advanced craft.

Both countries rested on their laurels, until the other nations like India and China finally became developed enough to start their own space programs. Even now, other than establishing the Space Force branch of the military, they haven't done much in the way of exploration or any work on future colonization.

Now you have the billionaires and their commercial effort, but I don't really see that leading everywhere. Only nations will invest the resources and money required to actually explore and colonize space. The most these billionaires will do is develop near orbit space flight and floating resort/casinos for the rich and famous to vacation in.

The sad thing is, in reality we are not decades away from the technology needed, we are decades behind.

And before the radioactive naysayers show up, I would also like to add, that we can block radiation with current technology as well. If we build a hull thick enough and dense enough, we can block the radiation, like thick, dense hull of lead can block radiation on the earth. I wager a thick, dense hull possibly coupled with a simple magnetic field generated around it, could very well reduce the radiation inside of the craft or station to nil. We are just to greedy, cheap and shortsighted as a species to want to invest such money and resources in developing safe craft, stations and colonies. In fact all of the stuff we have developed up until now have been light and cheap structures.

The massive material investment is just in the beginning though, because once we are able to get to mars and the asteroid belt, there are plenty of metallic minerals and materials in space to continue building what ever we need with no resource drain on the planet.

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Some of the asteroids are so heavy leaden with important minerals and metals that they would crash our entire economies should we ever devise a means of getting out to the asteroid belt.

Then again by the time we are ready to mine that far out from Earth i imagine our notions of money/power may somewhat have changed, and hopefully also the paradigm we follow.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Some of the asteroids are so heavy leaden with important minerals and metals that they would crash our entire economies should we ever devise a means of getting out to the asteroid belt.

Then again by the time we are ready to mine that far out from Earth i imagine our notions of money/power may somewhat have changed, and hopefully also the paradigm we follow.

It would only crash the economy of earth if we stay on earth and bring the resources back. Which in the long run would be more dumb than simply crashing the economy. Adding a ton of external mass to the planet may create greater problems. In fact if we pushed into space and began to access those resources, it would increase the possible gdp of the human race and instead of crashing the economy it would expand it greatly.

The amount of resources, the amount of labor available and the amount of things those two things can produce is what sets the real value of an economy. More resources and more people would generate more wealth.

a reply to: themessengernevermatters



The distribution of wealth and power are the issue all the same.

If we ever devise a means to cost effectively get of this rock and cruse around or colonise the better part of our solar system that may very well change.

And our race become rather hard to shackle down in the same to similar manner as to the way we are controlled down here on Earth, with all our eggs in the one basket, fighting over imaginary lines on maps, and ever diminishing resources.

Its all a pipe dream through without the required material science and technology, and we are not quite there yet in rather a few areas.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: themessengernevermatters

The distribution of wealth and power are the issue all the same.

If we ever devise a means to cost effectively get of this rock and cruse around or colonise the better part of our solar system that may very well change.

And our race become rather hard to shackle down in the same to similar manner as to the way we are controlled down here on Earth, with all our eggs in the one basket, fighting over imaginary lines on maps, and ever diminishing resources.

Its all a pipe dream through without the required material science and technology, and we are not quite there yet in rather a few areas.

I am sure there already is a cost effective way. Much more fuel efficient than using giant Saturn rockets and trying to hurl the mass straight off the surface of the planet and against the greatest amount of G forces. There have already been space planes developed that were able to carry pilots into space with a fraction of the fuel costs.

The problem isn't really technology. The problem is the majority of the people in positions of power are more concerned about maintaining that system of power even after the human race has already outgrown it; rather than putting the effort and energy into getting off the planet.

The idea that the global economy is even functional or stable now, when the US Fed and other central banks have been quantitative easing; ie printing massive amounts of currency, to keep the whole jalopy going since around 2007, is silly to me. Frankly, the more one looks at the world and the growing failure and collapse of the old systems and ways of doing things, it seems like we already passed the time, when we should have been transitioning the economy from a scarcity and consumer based economy, into one that will survive and perform well in the future.

Unfortunately; you and the old world dinosaurs in leader positions, want to save the failing economy and maintain the old way of doing things. We will never agree on that. The earth changes, systems change. When the mammoth started dying the ice age humans had to change.

If we would have been doing the foundation work that NASA had planned for the last sixty years, we already would have been well on our way to transitioning the old systems to newer and better ones. If we even would have given NASA half the DODs budget in that span of time, we would already be living in a different world, not still dreaming of future colonization, but doing it.

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

I don't think i have much to do with it really. LoL

But you blame away if that's what floats your boat.

As to there being a cost effective and viable means.

Aerospike rockets are probably our best bet thus far.

Where entry in to low Earth orbit is concerned anyroad.

Want to cruise around our own system, plasma engines might just be up to the task, but they wont ever take us to the stars.

a reply to: andy06shake

The main thing with a long time in zero-G would be bone loss, You just don't need a lot of bones up there. Technically the human body is a machine it has all the definitions of the machine in that it elevates effort, for all we know it might be a biological machine self-replicating self-healing. But designed for terrestrial conditions. It seems to meet all the conditions, i have yet to fathom its purpose though.

a reply to: RussianTroll

Hmm, this sounds kind of Freudian. My spaceship is bigger than anyone else's spaceship, really?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: RussianTroll

I hope the ship can be ready to go quickly, if an Earth-destroying asteroid is suddenly discovered.

You can bet your ass that the only people to go on it would be China's elite.

So hoping it is ready to go is a moot point.

:/

a reply to: anonentity

Our bodies do what its says on the tin they evolved in i suppose.

We simply cannot expect to be able to function as we do down here on Earth, on other worlds, or space, down to our biological make up and limitations.

The real ticket would be to engineer a better type of human or lifeform equipped or designed specifically for the task and environment.

As to our purpose, i find that to be rather sketchy myself, as all we ever seem to do is reproduce and consume, in the same to similar manner as does a virus.

Might be for the best that we are stuck down here at the arse end of our Suns gravity well if we are honest with ourselves, for the time being anyroad.

a reply to: RussianTroll
Remember what is said back on page one ?
www.defenseone.com...

Report: China Is Hacking Russia, Too
Moscow may be just “waking up” to the fact that their new partner sees them as a target.

Much has been made about the emerging relationship between China and Russia, two countries that the National Defense Strategy recognizes as near-peer competitors to the United States. They’re already collaborating on research, both are run by autocratic regimes, and neither has much affinity for the United States. But the marriage may not be as steady as Russia, especially, would like others to believe. A new report out of Russia accuses the Chinese government of hacking Russian state targets.

Last week, the Group-IB security consulting group published a blog post describing attacks in 2019 against Russian federal executive authorities. The attacks continued into 2020.

The malware used in the attack, Webdav-O, bears an uncanny resemblance to code that certain Chinese hacker groups use, according to Group-IB, which was founded in Russia but now has offices in other countries.

Any nation that gets in bed with the CCP should expect bed bugs and no telling what else ! You can tell Putin I said so..but... seeing how is is a smart fellow without my help he is probably weighing a risk management assessment and several options at once?

a reply to: 727Sky

OK. Tell me, did the American presidents and American corporations think the same when they invested trillions of dollars in the economy of China and the CPC and transferred practically all industrial production to their territory?

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: 727Sky

OK. Tell me, did the American presidents and American corporations think the same when they invested trillions of dollars in the economy of China and the CPC and transferred practically all industrial production to their territory?

Sorry not butting in but just commenting on that fact, not just the Americans but almost the entire west did this and it was driven by unregulated capitalism which is itself of course a recipe for disaster, capitalism HAS to be regulated it is an untameable beast if left to run free.

This ROT began in the west when the corporations took over the US and ended up owning the politicians so that was at the very closest point in time the 1970's but probably goes back to many politicians being owned and paid for there as far back as the 60's though I would argue Kennedy was NOT one of those.

Once you let corporations call the shots' they want all regulation watered down or even removed and especially international regulation so old tariffs that were used to protect economy's against cheap imports that would ruin there internal industry's were sacrificed for short term greed, once they were in country's like the UK for example any remaining impetus for corporations and company's to keep there production and job's within those former first world nation's was GONE like snow in a heat wave but of course the old first world nations remained wealthy so then the great economic bleed off began, as the economy's began to cannibalize themselves to drive there unsustainable model that no longer had the essential jobs that it was built upon they started to suffer inflation that was runaway, international financial institutions slowed it but could not stop this and slowly but surely and with accelerating speed the money bled out of the west into Asia mainly into China.

Now we are at the balance point, it will continue to tip but it is likely China will then seek cheap labour if the communist regime allows it's company's to do so, which it may not, Chinas reluctance and rising wage levels may make some job's return to the west but in reality without western government intervention, tariffs on uncompetitive imports etc there is no impetus or reason for company's to do so and so they will just look to other cheap labour markets first, then it comes down to which are the most unregulated regions that they can exploit.

Why because if our government are not going to regulate in the common interest of the west they will fall together into an economic abyss, this will not be like the recession's of the past as the removal of regulations and export/import control's on goods made in our economy's and uncompetitive good's from outside them coupled with corrupt corporate owned governance will prevent our nations from being able to dig there way back up.

But like always (Since the 1980's) the filthy rich will just get richer while everyone else get's ever more poor.

The solution is simple, we need to regulate, protect our employers and give the corporations reason to build there production and supply lines back in our nations if they want to exploit our economy's which in turn would reinvigorate our economy's.

We need to stop FORCING woman to get jobs and allow them to raise Children, it is not equality when it is exploitation and for a healthy nation it need's it's children as they are the future of it's economy and it's soul.

Give incentives to young couples to start family's and ensure that there are protections in place to allow them to PARENT there children.

Sadly we have a bunch of myopic and to be frank moronic politicians in the west that do not know there arse from there head.


You know I watched something about Putin, love him or hate him or just tow the line of whatever a nations media wants to portray him as while he may not be perfect as far as I can see he is the only major world leader to be restoring Christian monastery's, Church's and Cathedrals and he understands the importance of Christianity as the basis of our morality and ethic's and that with it's downfall in the west the west is also falling.

As such I believe God has probably blessed him, I am of course British so my opinion is neither here nor there but I find once I throw politics out of the window I wish we had a leader over here that realised the importance of Christianity and stopped pandering to the Muslims and other minority's over the heads of our own people.

originally posted by: RussianTroll
a reply to: 727Sky

OK. Tell me, did the American presidents and American corporations think the same when they invested trillions of dollars in the economy of China and the CPC and transferred practically all industrial production to their territory?

That is the problem with capitalism and corporations as they will get in bed with the devil if they think there is a buck to be made and they can walk away with a suitcase/bank full of money. They will learn that the CCP does not play fair and always stacks the deck in the CCP's favor.

China has launched a new campaign against capitalism and their version of girly boys; cultural revolution #2 . The state is claiming America and the west are using cyber warfare, cultural warfare, as well as they are still pushing COVID came from an American Lab At fort Detrick Md. This is the official CCP statements as published in the Chinese daily news which is the state propaganda arm of the CCP. Maybe all true, maybe not, but this is what is being force fed to the Chinese population.

We used to have a member here who grew up in China and was part of the red book carrying youth movement during the first cultural revolution. Some of the stories she can tell should make everyone pause before dealing with such an authoritarian regime. They can and do make Stalin out to be not such a bad guy after all, judging by the body count....

Notice how many of the millionaires are now under arrest or disappeared to a place far away from China ? The Cultural Revolution worked so well the fist time with millions starving and executed I guess it is time for a redo #2. Personally I feel sorry for the Chinese people who are controlled and directed by the totalitarian idiots of the CCP. Even Jacki Chan has felt their heavy hand and has decided to do some serious sucking up to the CCP as well as others; do that or lose everything..

I know your translator is first class but I am not sure if you speak and understand English. If you do, listen to the following video. He is long winded about some of the things now being pushed by the CCP via the Daily news but it is worth your time if interested. youtu.be...

youtu.be...

a reply to: 727Sky

Thank you for the video. I looked. I want to say that I really dislike many things in China. Moreover, I don’t like communism, just as I don’t like what is called capitalism in the West. These games of "-ism" are made to distract us from the ideas of a truly fair society.
You, me and the Chinese are from three different civilizations. We have a different mentality, a different attitude towards the "personal - collective" balance, different ideas about the relationship between "law" and "justice". But, in my opinion, we should not be at enmity, but try to understand each other, find compromises, taking into account the national interests of each, and live in justice. This applies to ordinary people. But all the time they are trying to push our heads against us, kindle enmity, make their own business on our blood. What for? Why do ordinary people like me and you, as Chinese, need this? Therefore, I try to treat with understanding both the interests of Westerners and the interests of the Chinese.

a reply to: LABTECH767
As a person who believes in God, I always turn to the Bible in such cases. Now nothing new is happening, everything has already been before us. Once upon a time people also imagined themselves equal to God and began to build the Tower of Babel. And the Lord divided them into races and languages, people stopped understanding each other and scattered. Now the ideas of the globalization of the world are also forcing people to build a new tower. But again everything will end with what is described in the Bible.
Thanks.

You know there's a starship circlin' in the sky,
it ought to be ready by 1990.

They'll be buildin' it up in the air even since 1980.

People with a clever plan can assume the role of the mighty
and HIJACK THE STARSHIP!

Carry 7,000 people past the sun,
And our babes'll wander naked thru the cities of the universe.

C'mon!

Free minds, free bodies, free dope, free music
the day is on its way the day is ours

See, "Methuselah's Children" by R.A. Heinlein.