Natural Immunity equal to vaccination, no, really.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: GravitySucks
Based on the widely ranging opinions and studies to date on this, it seems that 1.) natural and vaccine acquired immunity work differently and vary from person to person and 2.) the jury is still out on this.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions yet.

But don't you have to take into account the credentials of the person speaking? Here we have a guy who claims to have been in charge of the CDC for a period of time, and a random poster on ATS. Which one should carry more weight?

Of course. And the credentials of the people who did the studies at Hopkins, Emory, CDC, Mount Sinai, Mayo, and countless others are what I'd call pretty damn good and they all agree we don't know yet.

this is a highly contagious disease

which is more likely:
90 percent of the population avoided contact with the disease (because of masks, hand washing, social distancing)?
or is it more likely that
90 percent of the population is immune (in whatever way you want to define immunity)?

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: network dude

Other than natural immunity lasts upto 12months and vaccinations last upto 6months . Far more superior. Just think of all the natural antibodies u have whilst others are getting their boosters.

I was in a study. Mine lasted 9 months. Others more and other less. There are too many factors that influence just how long immunity (either natural or vaccinated) lasts. Like I said, the jury is still out. They're going to try to nip this pandemic in the fastest way possible, and that means being overly cautious and adjusting to the lowest common denominator.

a reply to: network dude

It naturally does so. If you've overcome any virus by getting sick and recovering...your body has the exact same antibodies as any vaccination. Hence: there is no difference.
This goes for any virus including civid19.

By any bureaucracy: same rules that apply for vaccinated people should apply for people who overcame the virus.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe
Had the rona already....as long as your not a total meat sack of a human or are elderly you have about an equal chance of being plowed down by a truck stepping out your front door.
Why is everyone acting like covid is a death sentence???? Any disease with a survival rate in the high 90 percentile, I'll roll the dice on. Contract it, "survive" it and have a healthy natural immunity.

To be clear I am not anti vaxx, I've had several all the important ones. But the mrna shot and the flu vax are just silly. Flu shot had what 40%effectiveness....that means it didnt work the majority of the time. No thanks.

Look, this fervent push to make everyone take the shot is weird. And makes anyone pushing the shot and Corona in general at this point come off as an authoritarian creep in my eyes. There are metric ton of other diseases and health conditions that are preventable and have claimed more lives than covid 19 probably ever will. Let's use "science©️" and reason to maybe solve some of those issues.
Not play little hitler with the common colds spec. ed. Cousin.

Not trying to hijack or attack you, I'm just sick of this whole nonsensical thing. I seriously amd starting to feel like I've gone increasingly insane over the past 2 years and the rest of the world is sane.....

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

No, you don't have to get sick first. You just have to be exposed to the virus. Which the majority of people have by now.

It depends on what you mean by “sick”. In order to get what people are calling natural immunity, you have to get the viral infection. That means that the virus has to establish a presence in your cells and start replicating. That’s different than simply being “exposed” to the virus. It is probably true that there has been enough of the virus floating around in the environment for the last year and a half that the majority of the population has inhaled some of it somewhere along the line. However, the vast majority of the viruses that get inhaled in small concentrations get trapped by your mucus membranes and are neutralized by your innate immune system. That never triggers your adaptive immune system to create antibodies.

In order to actually establish an infection, you have to inhale a minimum infectious dose of the virus. That’s more than just one or two. Basically, you have to take in enough virus in a single dose to overwhelm your innate immune system. If you do, then the virus can start entering into your cells and start replicating. Once that happens, your immune system has to recognize the virus as a foreign body and start building antibodies to neutralize it. If you’ve never been infected with the virus before, it takes between 7 to 10 days for your immune system to come up to maximum production rate. If you have been infected with the virus before or you had the vaccine, your immune system has a memory of that and it only takes about half as much time to ramp up production of antibodies. That’s the main benefit of having some immunity-whether it’s from infection or vaccine-it drastically reduces the time the virus load has to replicate itself, so it can’t do as much damage to your body before it gets squashed.

In either case, from the time the virus establishes an infection inside your cells until the time your adaptive immune system makes enough antibodies to eliminate the virus, you are “sick”, regardless of how good or bad you might feel during that time.

originally posted by: Daalder
a reply to: network dude

….. If you've overcome any virus by getting sick and recovering...your body has the exact same antibodies as any vaccination. Hence: there is no difference.
This goes for any virus including civid19.

False. There are currently 4 or 5 different technologies being used to produce vaccines and several more on the way. They all produce a different mix of antibodies and therefore produce different quality and quantity of immune response.

For example, the Chinese produced vaccine uses the classic “killed virus” technology. They grow the virus in a vat of egg whites, extract it and kill it with radiation or chemicals. When it’s injected, it can get into your cells and start your immune system producing antibodies, but the virus cannot reproduce itself. Because it uses the whole virus, it produces a mix of antibodies.

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines produce only antibodies to the spike protein.

The killed virus vaccine is like a shotgun; the mRNA vaccine is like a sniper rifle. So far the sniper rifle has a higher effectiveness.

The other vaccine technologies are somewhere in between.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: network dude

Ok. But? If exposed to an acute, progressive infection....you'll still get sick.

Nat. immuno is no protection against viral, infectious, contagious exposure .

Can't avoid all ..

but isn't that the same with the vaccinated?

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...
The article that couples this video isn't the point, but in the video, at 4:48, This guy, Admiral Giroir, states that Natural Immunity is equal to vaccination. He claims there is not data just before he makes that proclamation, but that seems a bit hard to believe, based on him saying it and all.

It will be interesting to hear how the administration flip flops on this aspect, since nobody has even mentioned it, other than to claim it didn't last.
Soon perhaps there will be "immune" cards to go along with the coveted "I'm vaxxed" card that so many desire.

Small victory for some, huge victory for others. It's nice to see at least a shred of good news.

The disadvantage with natural immunity is you have to get ill first, very risky.

They also tell you that you won't get AS sick if you're vaccinated, but many people who were exposed and caught it didn't even know. Outside of the constantly moving goal posts of the vaccine, it's safer to get the virus and let your immunity fight it off if you're not already on your death bed with underlying issues that would cause even a common cold to terminate you.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

No, you don't have to get sick first. You just have to be exposed to the virus. Which the majority of people have by now.

We'd all been exposed by the time the vaccines came out and the graph wasn't increasing. Then people were running around like headless chickens to get vaccinated and suddenly the graph started rising again so we who choose not to get vaccinated get the blame. This is as stupid as running a red light, t-boning someone, and blaming the witness who was behind you because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

originally posted by: BrokenCircles

originally posted by: network dude

they were speaking in context of the waning immunity from the vaccines, and he was forced to admit that natural immunity is outlasting the shot.

But they can still twist it around, and say that once you get the booster, that puts the vaccine back on top as the only sure way to be safe.


eta: that can probably buy them a few more months anyways.

then if natural immunity successfully lasts through the Winter, they may have to admit it, or try to find some other angle.

They probably could have sold their lie a lot better if they'd advertised it as a seasonal shot that targeted the most common strain and kept you safe during corona season. But no, it's a vaccine that'll be in your body forever and I just can't get down with that. Not that I would have been down with a seasonal shot since I never get a flu shot (or the flu).

On the CDC website under the FAQ section, they say that if you have antibodies, you can get sick again buts VERY RARE to get sick again. But they still recommend getting the vaccinations.

There are studies that I posted on another forum out of Israel that backs that up too.

And maybe I'm wrong in this but how are we so sure that there are different strains or is it the same.thing and we are getting told differently....

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...
The article that couples this video isn't the point, but in the video, at 4:48, This guy, Admiral Giroir, states that Natural Immunity is equal to vaccination. He claims there is not data just before he makes that proclamation, but that seems a bit hard to believe, based on him saying it and all.

It will be interesting to hear how the administration flip flops on this aspect, since nobody has even mentioned it, other than to claim it didn't last.
Soon perhaps there will be "immune" cards to go along with the coveted "I'm vaxxed" card that so many desire.

Small victory for some, huge victory for others. It's nice to see at least a shred of good news.

The disadvantage with natural immunity is you have to get ill first, very risky.

No where near as risky as the shots!

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...
The article that couples this video isn't the point, but in the video, at 4:48, This guy, Admiral Giroir, states that Natural Immunity is equal to vaccination. He claims there is not data just before he makes that proclamation, but that seems a bit hard to believe, based on him saying it and all.

It will be interesting to hear how the administration flip flops on this aspect, since nobody has even mentioned it, other than to claim it didn't last.
Soon perhaps there will be "immune" cards to go along with the coveted "I'm vaxxed" card that so many desire.

Small victory for some, huge victory for others. It's nice to see at least a shred of good news.

The disadvantage with natural immunity is you have to get ill first, very risky.

That is not true, in the case of natural immunity your body does know how to attack it using the innate system first then using the antigen based immunity if needed, it regulates that stuff naturally and everyone on this planet has ancestors that have survived more a real long time. It takes less than a day for the body to ramp up antibodies if needed if it already has the antibodies in it's library. The vaccines are not much faster than natural immunity and are actually far less good at variants most times. If a person got the flu back in the early sixties that was going around, they have immunity to all the variants that evolved off of that flu back then. And the kids of the people who survived getting the flu as well as themselves all had immunity to that flu and it's variants, passing it down for up to two generations. Those bits of information are in virology literature on the net.

Most people who get the virus just use their innate immune system to fight it off quickly, our immune systems know what a coronavirus cold or a adenovirus cold is, both of those offer protection against the virus that causes covid if your immune system is working properly. And after kicking it within a few days it starts working on antigen development but does not reach a decent amount of coverage in that way for maybe three to six months....that is why they were not detecting antigens in people immediately, six months later, they found that those people did develop antibodies to the disease. Why should your body drain itself by working super hard when it already has innate immunity, It takes it's time to make a good and diverse antigen response. What evolution has created over millions of years science cannot replicate properly over fifty years or so. There is a hundred times more going on in our bodies than science has discovered. Hell, until recently they thought that one enzyme the body makes only does one process, that got blown out of the water about eight to ten years ago and made fools of the medical industry.

Medical science treats symptoms, most often it does not treat the disease. And it is true you cannot kill a virus, since a virus by definition is not alive in the first place. It has to be disabled so it cannot work and replicate. They keep saying there is no cure for covid yet, but in actuallity the cure is all around us in things, just because they do not have an approved medicine for it does not mean there is no cure, most of the cultural medicinal soups around the world if made correctly stop this virus in it's tracks. No, that is not a cure, it is a treatment. Inhibitors of many of the viral pathways can stop this virus from hurting people while they build immunity.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: network dude
www.foxnews.com...
The article that couples this video isn't the point, but in the video, at 4:48, This guy, Admiral Giroir, states that Natural Immunity is equal to vaccination. He claims there is not data just before he makes that proclamation, but that seems a bit hard to believe, based on him saying it and all.

It will be interesting to hear how the administration flip flops on this aspect, since nobody has even mentioned it, other than to claim it didn't last.
Soon perhaps there will be "immune" cards to go along with the coveted "I'm vaxxed" card that so many desire.

Small victory for some, huge victory for others. It's nice to see at least a shred of good news.

The disadvantage with natural immunity is you have to get ill first, very risky.

Riskier than attempting to artificially edit your immune system with an insufficiently tested Mrna vaccine?

The vax is going to cause more severe symptoms even and more spread.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

No, you don't have to get sick first. You just have to be exposed to the virus. Which the majority of people have by now.

Here is the thing about that; The sicker you become the more antibodies you have, according to some of the "experts".

We will never get a straight answer on the PCR test. It was never meant to test for viruses.

So, how many false positives were there? How many "asymptomatic people" never actually had the virus to begin with?
Once these folks actually get covid, and have a severe reaction, it will greatly affect the breakthrough case percentage.
Which, in turn, will lead to more pushing for those that have had covid to get the vax.
Many will say the false positives are very low....
How do we know, as the standing procedure is that a "positive is a positive" and it is recommended not to retest until after the incubation period?

Something very strange is going on. I had a severe case of covid. I tested positive for the antibodies and my work is still pushing everyone to get vaxxed.

I tell yall what I volunteer to sit in a room full.of the sickest Covid infected people without a mask for a whole day. Who wants to make it happen?

Based on my research, it's my understanding that natural immunity is actually better than artificial immunity, and that getting vaccinated after having natural immunity could lower a person's overall immunity.

So people that are pushing these vaccines on young healthy people, who most likely have natural immunity, are actually doing harm to others.

I'm so sick of this BS, I'm super close to going John Gault for a while, and going back to helping humanity, when they stop hurting themselves.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

Something very strange is going on. I had a severe case of covid. I tested positive for the antibodies and my work is still pushing everyone to get vaxxed.

because of lies from our leadership, Fauci being the head asshole, the natural immunity aspect of this has been hidden. How many people will loose their jobs in the very near future due to not needing the vaccine because they have natural immunity? The systems Biden is pushing the private sector for don't include a test for antibodies. But then, with such pathetic leadership, this is expected.