Jews do not accept Jesus because he did not fulfill all messianic prophecy. Here is a Revelation!

a reply to: NOTurTypical

heh... well that sucks, though admittedly that has happened to me more times then i can count

And over the years you have been far and away my greatest opponent on these matters which i appreciate... i have no doubt we could write books on our disagreements

Personally i don't believe he "shed his blood" for us... seems more of a Paulian thing, though he does briefly mention him giving his life as a sacrifice.

First off he didn't want to die... i think his life would have been much more productive IF he had lived on... and there are some that believe he actually did

Im more inclined to believe he came to show the truth of the Father... who is not this sadistic blood thirsty critter you read about in the OT... one that is forgiving, knowing full well that we are only human... we all make mistakes, and we're meant to learn from them... Seems to me HE was the only person that was allowed to retain his memories of being with God... and said specifically "what i tell you i learned from my Father"... reinforcing the fact that he was subservient to God, not God in the flesh...

Perhaps he came to save us from ourselves...

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: ntech

The “reincarnation of Elijah”? But Elijah never died bro, he was taken to heaven in a flaming chariot. He returns in the end times, with probably Moses, as one of the two witnesses immediately preceding the Day of the Lord, I.E. the second advent of Christ on Earth.

The Bible rejects reincarnation, it teaches the death of the body and the soul & spirit moving on into either eternal life or eternal death (torment) and the future resurrection of the same body to face final judgment.

And the 70 Weeks Prophecy in Daniel 9 already has an indeterminate period of time separating the 69th and 70th week in verse 26. It begins with the judicial execution of the Mashiach Nagid (Messiah the King) and continues through the destruction of the temple and Diaspora of the Jews in 70 AD. That interval in the text was a minimum of 38 years, but now has taken almost 2,000 years. The 70th Week cannot commence until there is a third temple standing in Jerusalem, because the entire 70 Weeks prophecy is only for the Jews and the city of Jerusalem, Gabriel says so in verse 24.

Well lets get specific here.

Matthew 17

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

That's Jesus Christ making the claim. So assuming he's correct then John the Baptist could only be the reincarnation of Elijah/Elias. Also there are prophesies in the old testament saying that Elijah would come first.

Malachi 3
1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 4
5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Obviously John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah and his death caused the curse of Malachi 4-6 to happen. And that would also give Jesus Christ the title of the I that came and struck the earth with a curse.

So then can we find out details about the curse. And the answer is yes. In the book of Hosea there is the day of Jezreel prophecy. It predicts that Israel and Judah were to face a long term top level Leviticus 26 curse. And. The prophesy has a time-line. In verse 6-2 it tells us the curse is 2 days in the presence of the Lord. Followed by the day of Jezreel. But according to Psalms 90 and 2nd Peter 3-8 those days are 1000 year periods of time.

The curse of Malachi/Hosea is 2000 years long.

So the problem with the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9 is that it's incomplete. So what you have is after the 69th week the 2000 year curse took over and at either it's end or the last 7 years of it's end is when the 70th week occurs. And when it's all over the 1000 year day of Jezreel/1000 year reign of the saints from Revelation begins.

So that temple should be appearing really soon now.

One last detail here. Gabriel says his people in the KJV. But who would be "his" people today? Well according to the Genesis 48 and 49 prophesies the tribes of Israel would be nations by the end times. With Ephraim being a multitude of nations. Along with the olive tree parable of Romans 11 which tells us that Christians are adopted Israelites into the family tree of Abraham then Daniel's people would be most if not all of the world today. Either by blood or adoption. So that prophecy is for everyone now.

a reply to: ntech

Matthew 17

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

That's Jesus Christ making the claim. So assuming he's correct then John the Baptist could only be the reincarnation of Elijah/Elias. Also there are prophesies in the old testament saying that Elijah would come first.

For the life of me, I don't understand how you read those verses to show that Jesus claimed that John was Elijah, because he did not. He denied it.

Elijah paved the way for God the Father and John paved the way for God the Son to be introduced to the people. Verse 11 says that Elijah will come and restore all things, but things weren't restored...yet. Verse 12 tells us that Jesus said that Elijah had already come, but was rejected, so nothing was restored. That's not to say that Elijah won't be coming back to help restore everything before the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, but it didn't happen. Verse 12 also tells us that John paving the way for Jesus will have the same result, no restoration because Jesus will be rejected too and suffer at the hands of men.

Also, John himself denied that he was Elijah in...

John 1:21-23

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

John is only pointing out that he too was there to "make straight the way of the Lord", as SAID and told by the prophet Elijah.

As we all know, that failed too, just like Jesus said it would, but we all know that the future day of the Lord is coming where all will be restored during the millennial period.

a reply to: Akragon

Ya.. himself...

So logically no one goes to heaven but Jesus... who came down from heaven

thats NOT what He said..


problem is the omitted fact that all souls come from "heaven" whatever that may be...

thus.. we all come from there... and we all return to.. there

Jesus said he was from above and that we are from below just like John 3:31 and John 8:23 tells us.

Genesis 2:7 tells us that we only became a living soul after God breathed "the breath of life" into our nostrils, after he created us from the dust of the earth. This is not to imply that we were all given HIS spirit, only that He was able to breathe life into us. Jesus told us he was life. Nothing lives or becomes alive without Jesus. All things consist because of him and through him as told in Colossians 1:16-20.

While Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us that our bodies return to the dust of the earth when we die, and our spirits return to God who gave us the "breath of life", it returns to God for judgement.

There is nothing in the Bible that states that our souls came directly from heaven or that it goes back to heaven, only that it returns to God to do with what He will. God isn't limited to heaven either.

a reply to: Deetermined

Yet you post a verse that said specifically... Our spirits "return" to God... clearly implying we came from there... and return to there...

Interesting how Christians are so lost in their traditional beliefs that don't even know what they're quoting at times

It only because he didn't crush his enemies, have his followers see them driven before them, along with the the lamentations of the enemies woman.

I might be wrong about the lamentations part...she didn't say my name.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

I understand the reasons why Jews do not accept Jesus, as scripture does mention a number of things the Messiah must accomplish which Jesus did not, at least not yet. Jesus did not gather all of the Lords people to Israel, and this is found in the book of Isaiah; however the book of Revelation answers this prophecy.

The average Jewish rabbi is as confused as most all gentiles. Tell me why some will parrot a question and then twist it to sound as though it is a fact? When was Jeremiahs ministry? It was a good 600 years before Jesus' ministry. And what did God tell Jeremiah concerning covenants?

Jeremiah_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews_8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews_12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

There is both yours and the Jews answer. The covenant of Moses was done away with and Jesus has no obligation to fulfill an agrreement which has been annulled by the Father. Jesus, under His own covenant, is the messiah to all people and not simply to the Jew as it was in their covenant which passed away.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ntech

Matthew 17

10And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

That's Jesus Christ making the claim. So assuming he's correct then John the Baptist could only be the reincarnation of Elijah/Elias. Also there are prophesies in the old testament saying that Elijah would come first.

For the life of me, I don't understand how you read those verses to show that Jesus claimed that John was Elijah, because he did not. He denied it.

Elijah paved the way for God the Father and John paved the way for God the Son to be introduced to the people. Verse 11 says that Elijah will come and restore all things, but things weren't restored...yet. Verse 12 tells us that Jesus said that Elijah had already come, but was rejected, so nothing was restored. That's not to say that Elijah won't be coming back to help restore everything before the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, but it didn't happen. Verse 12 also tells us that John paving the way for Jesus will have the same result, no restoration because Jesus will be rejected too and suffer at the hands of men.

Also, John himself denied that he was Elijah in...

John 1:21-23

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

John is only pointing out that he too was there to "make straight the way of the Lord", as SAID and told by the prophet Elijah.

As we all know, that failed too, just like Jesus said it would, but we all know that the future day of the Lord is coming where all will be restored during the millennial period.

I certainly can't understand why you can have a different viewpoint since Matthew 17-10 through 14 is clearly stating that Jesus Christ himself thought John the Baptist was the Elijah to come. And he is the higher authority. Plus it's quite possible that even though that John was doing the job he wouldn't claim being Elijah because he was never told he was that person and didn't remember any details about his previous life.

Think of it this way. If you realized you were doing all the duties of a person predicted in prophecy but you were never told that you were that person would you claim it? I don't think I would actually claim to be some supernatural end time figure unless I had solid proof of it like doing supernatural actions and having conversations with higher powers confirming my suspicions. Though nowadays that would probably earn you a trip to the booby hatch. But then they would have to catch you. : )

What happened in the first century AD was a broken Apocalypse. Simply put Herod was given a choice. Allow John the Baptist to live and have that Apocalypse go as planned. OR. Break it and put it through a 2000 year detour. Herod chose badly.

a reply to: Seede

You seem to have misunderstood what happened to the old covenant. It wasn't erased in the 1st century AD. It was modified. You need to read Romans 11 and Leviticus 26.

What they did to it was they erased the part about animal sacrifices. Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the cross is the substitution for animal sacrifices. Otherwise it's unchanged.

Basically the Covenant is a legal agreement between a God and his followers and their society. As long as you are considered a "good" Christian you are entitled to the benefits of the covenant. BUT... Big but there. BUT. If you fall away from being a Christian then the punishments of the Covenant can start taking effect. As Romans 11 olive tree parable puts it if you and your society starts to sin and forget their God then they can be cut out of the olive tree. And then they are subject to the punishments listed in the old covenant. Because they have been cut out of the new one.

Plus the descendants of those subject to either covenant are also subject to them.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Deetermined

Yet you post a verse that said specifically... Our spirits "return" to God... clearly implying we came from there... and return to there...

Interesting how Christians are so lost in their traditional beliefs that don't even know what they're quoting at times

Now you're just playing ignorant. Just because our spirits return to God for judgement doesn't mean that they go to heaven for it to happen, like I already told you, but you choose to ignore it. SMH

We weren't created in heaven and not every soul will permanently reside there after death.

Lol. What?

a reply to: ntech

That's a pretty lengthy opinion for something that holds no merit in scripture.

a reply to: Deetermined

obviously you never understood Romans 11. The "NEW" current covenant is a hybrid of the old covenant of Leviticus 26 and the olive tree parable of Romans 11. And Romans 11 specifically states that a fallen away Christian can be "cut out of" the olive tree. Leaving them subject to the penalties of the old covenant.


13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Leviticus 26.

3If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
13I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.
14But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
15And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
16I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
18And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:
20And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.
21And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
23And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
24Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
27And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
28Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
30And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
31And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
32And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
33And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
35As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
36And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38And ye shall perish among the heathen, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;

a reply to: ntech


41And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
44And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
45But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
46These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Deetermined

Yet you post a verse that said specifically... Our spirits "return" to God... clearly implying we came from there... and return to there...

Interesting how Christians are so lost in their traditional beliefs that don't even know what they're quoting at times

Now you're just playing ignorant. Just because our spirits return to God for judgement doesn't mean that they go to heaven for it to happen, like I already told you, but you choose to ignore it. SMH

We weren't created in heaven and not every soul will permanently reside there after death.

Alright well that is your opinion... and its no more valid then mine...

Simply because there are no facts on this subject matter...

Edited: Curious though... where is it that you believe "God" hangs out? Perhaps on the front door step with Peter?

Don't suppose you've ever heard the term "God in Heaven"... considering its used once or twice in your book

also consider "no man goes to heaven but those that came from heaven"

Yet im being ignorant.... lol

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

heh... well that sucks, though admittedly that has happened to me more times then i can count

I need to buy another PC or a laptop. 🙄

And over the years you have been far and away my greatest opponent on these matters which i appreciate... i have no doubt we could write books on our disagreements

Yeah, but we became friends out of it. I love ya bro, and one day or another I’ll get you to accept Christ and get it over with and join the beloved.

Personally i don't believe he "shed his blood" for us.

But He most certainly did, Isaiah 53 is the greatest prophecy about Christ from the perspective of presentation of the gospel of the grace of God in the OT. Gabriel’s prophecy in Daniel 9 also says the Messiah King will be executed, but not for Himself in chapter 9 verse 26. Jesus is the “lamb of God”, He is the Passover lamb. All through the Bible God teaches the people that only by the shedding of innocent blood will sins be forgiven, a vicarious atonement.

What makes Christ’s atonement so perfect is that God justifies man to Himself, we don’t earn our salvation. Jesus Christ takes our sin, but also gifts us His righteousness by imputation. It’s called the “Great Exchange”.

seems more of a Paulian thing, though he does briefly mention him giving his life as a sacrifice.

Right, Jesus does say it. But not just Paul, vicarious atonement is all through the OT, Peter says it, James says it, Luke says it, John says it. It’s from cover to cover in the Bible, the entire book is about God the Savior and Redeemer.

First off he didn't want to die.

Yes and no. He prayed in the garden if there was another way (to redeem mankind/satisfy the justification requirements of God) then to let the cup pass from Him, but He immediately followed that petition up with “nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” His only purpose in the incarnation was to reveal the face of God and His love and to make final atonement for sin. (Again see Daniel 9:24-27 for His purpose and the completion of man’s dominion on Earth)

i think his life would have been much more productive IF he had lived on.

I think God’s timing is perfect, Jesus came when He was meant to come and fulfilled His mission at the precise moment in time. And without His death and the resurrection the world would still be lost in their sins. God delivers His adopted sons from death and sin the same way He delivered the children of Israel from bondage to Pharaoh in Egypt.

and there are some that believe he actually did

I have a thread on that on my page.

Im more inclined to believe he came to show the truth of the Father.

Yes, but not the only reason. His prime goal was atonement. (Isaiah 53, Daniel 9:26)

who is not this sadistic blood thirsty critter you read about in the OT.

God isn’t, only people with a superficial understanding of the OT think that. God is not only love, mercy and grace, he is also holy, wrath and judgment. His mercies and grace do not continue forever with people who refuse to repent and stop their wicked ways or idolatry. Wrath is a form of the emotion of love, or a natural byproduct of it. The opposite of love is fear, not wrath. If a man molests my little girl love for her requires my wrath or I don’t actually love her.

one that is forgiving, knowing full well that we are only human.

Yahweh forgave sins in the OT, people has always been saved by grace. And He is the one who reconciles man to Himself, knowing like you said, that we are humans and have no capacity to be perfect as He is perfect of reconcile ourselves to Him.

we all make mistakes, and we're meant to learn from them.

Truth! But God still cannot forgive sins without a payment for them or it would be a breach of His justice. God cannot deny His own Nature, and in Jesus God paid the penalty for sins Himself. He died for us in our place to satisfy His own justice and wrath and only asks us to trust Him and believe Him to be forgiven of those sins that He Himself paid for.

Seems to me HE was the only person that was allowed to retain his memories of being with God.

Being with the Father. Jesus is the Son of God, who came to Earth as truly God and truly man to atone for the sins of all mankind.

and said specifically "what i tell you i learned from my Father".

Yeah..

reinforcing the fact that he was subservient to God, not God in the flesh.

Subservient to the Father as His Son, but still of the Divine essence. All members of the Godhead are subservient to the other members at different points in the Bible. Jesus taught this to His disciples by washing their feat, the extreme display of love is to serve others and to sacrifice yourself for others. The Father serves the Son, the Son serves the Father, the Holy Spirit serves the Son and the Father, and so on throughout the Bible, a perpetual, eternal, perfect circle of perfect love.

Perhaps he came to save us from ourselves.

I agree. 👏👍

a reply to: Akragon

We've been down this road a hundred times before, but if I must repeat myself, the Bible says that God gave all power and authority to judge and give life to Jesus. Jesus is the Creator and the Judge. You claim to believe in the gospels, but you have ignored most everything written in them. Go read the book of John again.

a reply to: ntech

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that scriptures don't support in any way that John was the reincarnation of Elijah. There is no such thing as reincarnation, only resurrection, which isn't the same thing.

a reply to: Akragon

By the way, the part about no man goes to heaven is for a couple of reasons. First, flesh and blood will not be entering heaven, as man has corrupted it. We are given new heavenly bodies.

Second, Jesus is creating a new heaven and earth for us to be able to live with him, not the place from where Jesus originally came.

a reply to: Deetermined

Jesus said no man has ascended to heaven BEFORE the atonement and resurrection. After those events Jesus took the righteous dead in Paradise with Him to heaven. Before the atonement Hades had two sections separated by a great chasm, torments in flame in one side and Abraham’s Bosom (Paradise) on the other side of the chasm. After the atonement and at the resurrection Jesus emptied Paradise and took the righteous dead spirits/souls with Him to heaven.