It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

So If The First Civil War Was Over State’s Rights

page: 1
17
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:
+3 more 
posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 08:32 PM
link   
Will the second Civil War be over individual rights?

Currently the Federal government is involving itself with employment prospects, individual choice, travel, leisure, voting, expression, etc in the name of Covid. Coverups of epic proportions are being performed by propaganda and censorship in conjunction with political identity. Competition being stifled by tech giants if opposing ideology is at play including denial of equal access despite paying for services.

I fight not with guns or bombs but by sharing knowledge of how to survive and live off the land, not just what to use but the hows and whys some things work and that you need to practice to find what works for you. The most important key tool being to not go solo but to share the load with a group. Your corn can feed my chickens to provide eggs while someone else makes alcohol for disinfecting wounds and so on.

But is there a point where backs are against the wall and individual rights will be fought for? Will it end as with states and their representation in the Senate be replaced by Super Representatives of a party rather than Senators appointed by and for the State? At that point members of the House would be elected statewide (large city population) rather than the district they represent.



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 08:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

We've been in an information war for a good long time.

The only winners happen to be very wealthy and have no loyalty to the nation. Their soldiers don't have the wealth but share every other ideology.



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 08:42 PM
link   


Currently the Federal government is involving itself with employment prospects, individual choice, travel, leisure, voting, expression, etc in the name of Covid. Coverups of epic proportions are being performed by propaganda and censorship in conjunction with political identity. Competition being stifled by tech giants if opposing ideology is at play including denial of equal access despite paying for services.


I could definitely see this being the case. Sadly, I see many opportunists instilling a sense of identity politics where we are segregated cross-sectionally by race and class. More division. More confusion. Perversion of morals and decency. People just have to get a back bone and say no.

NO.
edit on 21-8-2021 by SoundisVibration because: Added quote



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 08:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

Employers were able to force you to pee in a cup before employment. They got to look at the contents of your body.

I understand the reasoning, but I can typically tell if an employee is reliable or not pretty quickly without a lab test.

They can check your credit, make you do personality tests... so this to me isn't new.

As far as the health aspect, we've had mining jobs which are troublesome, and things of that ilk.

I don't approve of any of this (or forcing vaccine for that matter, which itself dates back over a hundred years).... The left an right have both been authoritarian in nature for a long time, legislating for the state not the citizen.

It's only going to get worse.



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 09:49 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

The American civil war was about individual rights ... to give all people liberty and shape their own destiny. That slavery did not belong in the USA.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness


State rights were part of the battle against Monarchy.

I agree with your premise, if there was another civil war, or revolution, it will be over the individuals freedoms being trampled upon, and a collective frustration would assemble.
edit on 21-8-2021 by strongfp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 09:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar
I think the way you fight is good for now but it's eventually going to get physical or they will be coming for your chickens and their feed.....






posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 10:20 PM
link   
Individuals no longer have rights, and the loudest of them will scream about how much they love it.

The rest of us are just waiting it out, until the boot lickers try to force their broken thinking on us.



posted on Aug, 21 2021 @ 11:08 PM
link   
I'd like to participate in the Civil War but I don't have any vacation time left at my job.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 12:44 AM
link   
I fear swearing might get me banned but this is a time to say * you.

I believe that all persons and people should stick with their neighbor and know them.
I believe treat unto others as you would be treated.
I believe that any form of encroachment upon myself or others is a direct threat that needs met with equal and opposite force
I believe that people should take care of each other in their respective communities better then what they do at least from my on the ground observation

I hope we don’t have a civil war because I believe it’s going to be fought by idiots with stupid ideas. The only real thing is the golden rule. If common people practiced that instead of who’s my bi tch rap battle games maybe we would be ok.
edit on 22-8-2021 by Brotherman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 01:56 AM
link   
a reply to: strongfp

The debate over slavery versus state rights as the driving force behind the Civil War is deep, convoluted, and exhausting; however, it is yet debatable. Personally, because States who remained loyal to the Union were allowed to uphold slavery I feel abolishing slavery was merely used as war time rhetoric until it later came to fruition.

Still, in a grander sense State rights reflects individual rights because we have the right to live in whatever state reflects our values best.

I don't see America ever in a state of civil war in the same way again. Modern propaganda has us mixed up in every city in every state. Any civil war that might break out would be multifaceted and little more than pointless chaos leading us to compete ruin.

The only scenario it seems a traditional civil war revolution might occur will require our country to become far more obviously dystopian and totalitarian. Over time "we've" mastered the art of persuasion. Not nearly enough people are aware or motivated to defend individual liberty.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 02:34 AM
link   

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Ahabstar

The American civil war was about individual rights ... to give all people liberty and shape their own destiny. That slavery did not belong in the USA.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness


State rights were part of the battle against Monarchy.

I agree with your premise, if there was another civil war, or revolution, it will be over the individuals freedoms being trampled upon, and a collective frustration would assemble.


It was not over liberty. it was over MONEY and RESOURCES. The north was gonna lose its cash cow and refused to let the south go.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 06:08 AM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

America has already had two civil wars.



As early as 1789, David Ramsay, an American patriot historian, wrote in his History of the American Revolution that "Many circumstances concurred to make the American war particularly calamitous. It was originally a civil war in the estimation of both parties.





Some historians name the 1861–1865 war as the "Second American Civil War", since the American Revolutionary War could be considered a civil war (since the term can refer to any war to separate one political body from another)


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 07:36 AM
link   
a reply to: yuppa

But part of the reason the south was succeeding was because of slavery, right?



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 07:49 AM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar

The rights of people in parliamentary democracies or representative republics are at stake. What kind of countries do people want the next generation to inherit? In New Zealand, only the incompetence of Ardern's government is saving New Zealand from racial separatism. Across the globe, the rise of "corporate power", social media giants and extremist ideologies are making inroads in our societies.


Specifically, in the U.S., the sheer number of firearms adds another layer to the cake. Now, that doesn't suggest military competency, but that is a discussion for another day. In addition, political sectarianism is on the rise. But, unlike the American Civil War, future wars along those lines are defined less by geography. So, the Syrian Civil War or Northern Ireland are closer to what future conflicts might offer.

Yet politicians that have combined qualities of Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, LBJ and Eisenhower might turn the tide in favour of everyday people. Otherwise, one might ask how the second American Civil War is shaping?



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 07:58 AM
link   
a reply to: CptGreenTea

The cotton gin, which was never operated by slaves because slaves were too valuable to risk gettin injured, allowed for mechanical harvesting over hand picked because the cotton could be picked and cleaned more efficiently than by hand. Slavery as an institution would have ended by the 1880’s anyway.

A much larger contributing factor was property taxes over income which disproportionately punished the South over the North because a factory didn’t use as much land as a plantation but made far more profits in a year. As it was, the threat of ending slavery wasn’t so much greed but the end of individual generational wealth as the only profitable agricultural would not have been the family plantations but huge corporate farms.

As it turned out during the Civil War, the northern textile factories switched to Egyptian Cotton and the advertising required to make it acceptable made domestic cotton undesirable and considered inferior after the war. Mostly because the Cotton Gin still needed more refinements to pick the debris out of the cotton.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 08:16 AM
link   
a reply to: strongfp

The American Civil War was a battle over whether the states should be more sovereign in the face of the federal government.

Slavery was the issue that coalesced around.

A similar way to look at it would be if the Federal Government decided to suddenly ban and confiscate individual firearms and a Civil War erupted over that. It would not be a clear thing. Some states would pitch in to protect their citizens' rights. Not all of the military would clearly or cleanly follow the government in its orders to attack and enforce the new laws or put down the rebellion, etc.

But you and I and everyone here would know, especially in these times, that such a move being made was not done in a vacuum and was heaped on to a string of abuses of people's personal civil and individual rights during COVID.

So in the future, it would be a complete lie to say that the second Civil War was fought entirely over the right to keep and bear arms.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 10:13 AM
link   
a reply to: filthyphilanthropist

I don't like to argue over the myriad of 'causes' that lead to the civil war. At the end of the day, it all boiled down to abolishment of slavery. And it's institutions attached. Why? Because it ultimately went against the constitution, and the bill of rights, which I gave a quote from.
When someone, anyone is a slave, they have no rights what so ever, to the point their entire being and existence basically doesn't exist. Yet they are a person, with their own thoughts and personalities, by owning a person as a slave, you are barring them from their basic rights, and in the USA, those rights are given by 'god' or 'natural rights'. Therefore state rights come second to the individual citizens constitutional rights.
edit on 22-8-2021 by strongfp because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 10:15 AM
link   
a reply to: strongfp

No, at the end of the day, it was all boiled down to that.

Why? History is written by the victors, and that makes it all look virtuous when the truth is murkier and less black and white good v. evil.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 10:21 AM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

It is?

Then why did the south try to make up their own completely different historical timeline? The American civil war was well documented, and events leading up to it were also well documented. Also, the entire declaration of secession was riddled with one thing, to keep slavery, signed by all the states that wanted to uphold it, which was all of them.
Honestly, why do people even argue about who lost and who won? The confederates were traitors, all for a barbaric and outdated economic backward way of life.
It still doesn't change the fact that state rights aren't above the individuals rights, which goes against slavery.



posted on Aug, 22 2021 @ 10:28 AM
link   
a reply to: Ahabstar
I'm hoping the next Civil War will be more civilized than the last, with quick results. Like how the Taliban took over Afghanistan.




top topics



 
17
<<   2 >>

log in

join