200 million man army

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Many years ago, when I read the Revelation for the first time, I had no idea why the "kings of the east" would send a huge army into the Levant. China was a minor power and most everyone rode around on bicycles. China was self-sufficient in oil.

Then, as the Vulcans say, Nixon went to China. Now, China is a major power and everyone has put away the bike for a car. Now China needs oil, and badly. This is what will lure the kings of the east (note the plural) to go west to the oilfields. We can see it happening with the Belt and Road Initiative. They mean to go west for resources.

+1
my theory; eventually Islam will be united (antiChrist?) and will use their oil power to force others to convert. I see Europe giving in easily.
China will say no and rally other Asian countries (imagine how many soldiers India and Indonesia could provide, as well as Japan and the Koreas).

our whole society is built on fossil fuels.

a reply to: Raggedyman
My own series on Revelation (soon to be a major book, if any publisher takes the bait) treats all the numbers as having a symbolic meaning.

To me, the symbolism of "200 million" is that it is the kind of number being used to measure the size of the Lord's Host in the Psalms. In other words, only God can muster an army of that size. In other words, that is God's army (whether they know it or not), doing God's work in trying to push the world into repentance.

a reply to: Raggedyman

And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

Sounds a lot like a bomb from a jet to me.

a reply to: DISRAELI

When they talkin' horsemen in the bible they talking horespower. F-15s have 300,000 horsepower.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

my theory; eventually Islam will be united (antiChrist?) and will use their oil power to force others to convert. I see Europe giving in easily.
China will say no and rally other Asian countries (imagine how many soldiers India and Indonesia could provide, as well as Japan and the Koreas).

our whole society is built on fossil fuels.

I think you could well be correct, as the Revelation did specify the KINGS of the East.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Raggedyman
My own series on Revelation (soon to be a major book, if any publisher takes the bait) treats all the numbers as having a symbolic meaning.

To me, the symbolism of "200 million" is that it is the kind of number being used to measure the size of the Lord's Host in the Psalms. In other words, only God can muster an army of that size. In other words, that is God's army (whether they know it or not), doing God's work in trying to push the world into repentance.

I recall that 200 is the Biblical number of insufficiency, so this army will not be enough to accomplish its mission.

a reply to: Lazarus Short
The actual figure in the text is "twice ten thousand times ten thousand", which ought to be large enough. Especially since "10" is the number of completeness, and "1000" is 10 cubed- three dimensional completeness. And that 10,000 has been squared, twice over. How complete can anything get?

Only the Lord's Host can be as great as that.

a reply to: Raggedyman

If I remember correctly Revelation 9, the 200 million horseman are the number of locusts released from the pit and under control of the 4 angels released from chains at the river Euphrates. Their description doesn’t sound humanoid at all.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Lazarus Short
The actual figure in the text is "twice ten thousand times ten thousand", which ought to be large enough.

So that would actually be

twenty million

correct?

The writer of the Revelation did not have a handy calculator like I do, thus the round-about number notation. The workings of ancient arithmetic interests me.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Raggedyman

You assume there needs to be a valid reason to march on Israel when the time comes.

Ezekiel 38-39 and Psalm 83 says there will be two wars waged against Israel/Jerusalem still yet to come, then in Revelation the nations the Antichrist controls will also march on toward Jerusalem to destroy it directly preceding the return of Christ.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Raggedyman

If I remember correctly Revelation 9, the 200 million horseman are the number of locusts released from the pit and under control of the 4 angels released from chains at the river Euphrates. Their description doesn’t sound humanoid at all.

I just looked at Rev. 9 in a version called "The Scriptures" and did not find a number assigned to the locusts. I did see the number of 200 million applied to the armies of the Kings of the East.

a reply to: Lazarus Short
I've had to look at this with pencil and paper.
As far as I can make out, ten thousand times ten thousand is "1" followed by 8 zeroes, and I think that means 200 million was right. See the advantage of taking it as a symbolic number?

But then I was the nine-year old child who explained the theory of number to the boy at the next desk as follows;
"There are ten tens in a hundred. Ten hundreds in a thousand. And ten thousands in a million."

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Lazarus Short
I've had to look at this with pencil and paper.
As far as I can make out, ten thousand times ten thousand is "1" followed by 8 zeroes, and I think that means 200 million was right. See the advantage of taking it as a symbolic number?

But then I was the nine-year old child who explained the theory of number to the boy at the next desk as follows;
"There are ten tens in a hundred. Ten hundreds in a thousand. And ten thousands in a million."

So ten cubed.

I get it.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I don’t know what “The Scriptures” version is. I primarily use the MEV (Modern English Version) and I was citing Revelation 9:16. These two hundred million horsemen are under the control of the 4 angels who are bound at the river Euphrates, they go forth and kill 1/3 of mankind. Then verses 17-19 goes on to describe this horde and they don’t sound human, at all. I think it’s a description of the demon horde released from the pit in Revelation 9:3. Then Revelation 9:7 likens the shape/appearance of this demon horde to horses.

Edit: You made me think I was crazy and my memory failing me, I just re-read Revelation chapter 16 and don’t see a number of soldiers mentioned for the kings of the East. Just that the river Euphrates is dried up so they can march to Jerusalem. The 200 million horsemen is Revelation 9:16, and talking about the demon horde released from the pit in Revelation 9:3 and controlled by the 4 angels to kill 1/3 of mankind.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I don’t know what “The Scriptures” version is. I primarily use the MEV (Modern English Version) and I was citing Revelation 9:16. These two hundred million horsemen are under the control of the 4 angels who are bound at the river Euphrates, they go forth and kill 1/3 of mankind. Then verses 17-19 goes on to describe this horde and they don’t sound human, at all. I think it’s a description of the demon horde released from the pit in Revelation 9:3. Then Revelation 9:7 likens the shape/appearance of this demon horde to horses.

Edit: You made me think I was crazy and my memory failing me, I just re-read Revelation chapter 16 and don’t see a number of soldiers mentioned for the kings of the East. Just that the river Euphrates is dried up so they can march to Jerusalem. The 200 million horsemen is Revelation 9:16, and talking about the demon horde released from the pit in Revelation 9:3 and controlled by the 4 angels to kill 1/3 of mankind.

OK, I took another look...and you are correct. "The Scriptures" is a newish version from South Africa and it has a definite Hebraic favor. BTW, at least one commentator of the Revelation thinks the "horde released from the pit" - the horsemen, not the locusts - were the mounted armies of Islam, partly based on the colors mentioned, being the colors of the uniforms of the Turkish army in the days when it was threatening Vienna.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I’ve never heard of it, I’ll have to check it out. Maybe it is a Muslim army, I tend to think it’s demonic because the locusts are described as looking like horses. They are also controlled by the 4 fallen angels and kill 1/3 of mankind