Machu Picchu age misidentified

Of course the headline is misleading. And that is the point of why I posted it. As I first clicked on the article I imagined the arguments that would ensue in here from people using this to bash archaeology.

I admit...I was excited. Then I read the article. 20 friggin years. Its not exactly a AHA moment.

I find most of published archaeology is like this. Well mass published. Maybe this is more mudpit? I dunno.

While I do continue to hope for that amazing discovery that literally changes everything we know.....are we are really getting is localized phenomena

However there is another article on the site about a long lost mythical castle being discovered. It will probably be less mythical than historically forgotten eh?

Anyways the article after I have ruined it: www.ancient-origins.net...

Read the title and was hoping for at least +30,000 years .
S&F anyhow

a reply to: atlantiswatusi

While I do continue to hope for that amazing discovery that literally changes everything we know.....are we are really getting is localized phenomena

We've had a few amazing discoveries that change everything we thought we knew. Gobekli Tepe had more than a little impact on "known history".


ETA: Personally, I think some of the stone work at Machu Picchu may be MUCH older than what is currently accepted.

Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

a reply to: Trueman

I've always thought that myself BUT the past 10 years or so has taught a lot of us that these South American cultures were far larger than thought.

Considering how effectively the conquistadors (well for a long time anyways) erased their history I chalk that up as a propaganda tool to make the slaughter easier.

a reply to: Gothmog

Same here. Instead....not even 30 years. Geesh. I should've gone into the headline writing business

originally posted by: Trueman
Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

I believe you are confused.

Harte

I like this article about the discovery of the city from the article listed.

"Although it has become known as the “lost city” discovered by American explorer Hiram Bingham in 1911, in reality it was never “lost” as locals knew it was there all along"

It still goes on today, someone researching stuff on an Island discovered a new species of reptile....being carried on the shoulders of someone who was bringing it back to a yearly party. They had already made it so it was not allowed to take that big lizard except for the festival on the island because they were getting scarce there.

I suppose the scientists who "Discovered" it will come and take half of what they have on the island and then tell them that it is endagered and it cannot be used for their annual festival.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Trueman
Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

I believe you are confused.

Harte

I was born in Peru. That's an old story passed through generations. I think there is an old cronicle about that too somewhere, but can't remember it now. I could be wrong too, of course.

Anyway, The Incas didn't built Sacsayhuaman/Sacsaywaman. some believe there was previous culture called "Killke"(900 to 1200 AD), they made it.

That's way before the Incas. Incas came to the area around the 13th century.

Evidence of the presence of the Killke people was found colse to Machu Picchu too.

the Killke culture (900 to 1200 AD) is credited for building Sacsayhuamán.

rpp.pe...
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: rickymouse
I like this article about the discovery of the city from the article listed.

"Although it has become known as the “lost city” discovered by American explorer Hiram Bingham in 1911, in reality it was never “lost” as locals knew it was there all along"

It still goes on today, someone researching stuff on an Island discovered a new species of reptile....being carried on the shoulders of someone who was bringing it back to a yearly party. They had already made it so it was not allowed to take that big lizard except for the festival on the island because they were getting scarce there.

I suppose the scientists who "Discovered" it will come and take half of what they have on the island and then tell them that it is endagered and it cannot be used for their annual festival.

That is true. Still today there are many ruins well known by locals and never investigated by experts. Simply too many and not enough resources.

originally posted by: Trueman
Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

But what did they really mean by that? Did they mean it was built by people long ago, or that they didn't know when it was built or by whom, only that they live here now? With no particular regard to anything but mythological history, their own ancestors could have built the place a few hundred years ago, but they didn't remember who they were.

"History" as we know it is a relatively recent invention. Prior to that, it either didn't exist at all or it was mostly organized plagiarism with little regard for journalistic accuracy.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Trueman
Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

But what did they really mean by that? Did they mean it was built by people long ago, or that they didn't know when it was built or by whom, only that they live here now? With no particular regard to anything but mythological history, their own ancestors could have built the place a few hundred years ago, but they didn't remember who they were.

"History" as we know it is a relatively recent invention. Prior to that, it either didn't exist at all or it was mostly organized plagiarism with little regard for journalistic accuracy.

Sacsaywaman is pre-Incan. Was built by the Killke Culture. The Incas upgraded it with underground tunnels and chambers. They called those "Chingana" I think.

Incas conquered other cultures and absorbed them, they never destroyed what they found.

originally posted by: Gothmog
Read the title and was hoping for at least +30,000 years .
S&F anyhow

They are dating the site using bones from a burial. Maybe other sources but they were not mentioned.

Looking at the photos of some of the stone works its apparent that this site has been repaired by a lesser civilization than the one that originally built it.

I'm guessing your probably closer to the true age, than they are...

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Trueman
Well, when the conquistadors asked locals who built Sacsayhuaman, they said all that was already there when they came.

I believe you are confused.

Harte

I was born in Peru. That's an old story passed through generations. I think there is an old cronicle about that too somewhere, but can't remember it now. I could be wrong too, of course.

Anyway, The Incas didn't built Sacsayhuaman/Sacsaywaman. some believe there was previous culture called "Killke"(900 to 1200 AD), they made it.

That's way before the Incas. Incas came to the area around the 13th century.

Evidence of the presence of the Killke people was found colse to Machu Picchu too.

the Killke culture (900 to 1200 AD) is credited for building Sacsayhuamán.

rpp.pe...
en.wikipedia.org...

You ARE confused.
You're probably thinking of Tiahuanaco.
I've read several of the Spanish Chronicles.
The Killke built a temple there, and some associated structures. The fortress itself is 100% Inca.

Harte

Yeh, gotta love old Pedro..

THE TRAVELS OF PEDRO DE CIEZA DE LEON. A.D. 1532-50 Tiahuanaco is not a very large village, but it is celebrated for the great edifices near it, which are certainly things worth seeing. Near the buildings there is a hill made by the hands of men, on great foundations of stone. Beyond this hill there are two stone idols, of the human shape and figure, the features very skilfully carved, so that they appear to have been done by the hand of some great master. They are so large that they seem like small giants, and it is clear that they have on a sort of clothing different from those now worn by the natives of these parts. Near these stone statues there is another building. Their antiquity and the want of letters, are the causes why it is not known who built such vast foundations, and how much time has since elapsed; for at present there is only a wall very well built, and which must have been standing for many ages. Some of the stones are much worn. At this part there are stones of such enormous size that it causes wonder to think of them, and to reflect how human force can have sufficed to move them to the place where we see them, being so large. But what I noted most particularly, when I wandered about over these ruins writing down what I saw, was that from these great doorways there came out other still larger stones, upon which the doorways were formed, some of them thirty feet broad, fifteen or more long, and six in thickness. The whole of this, with the doorway and its jambs and lintel, was all one single stone. The work is one of grandeur and magnificence, when well considered. For myself I fail to understand with what instruments or tools it can have been done; for it is very certain that before these great stones could be brought to perfection and left as we see them, the tools must have been much better than those now used by the Indians. It is to be noted, from what now appears of these edifices, that they were not completed, for there is nothing but these portals, and other stones of strange bigness which I saw, some of them shaped and dressed ready to be placed on the edifice, which was a little on one side. Here there was a great idol of stone, which must have been placed there to be worshipped. It is rumoured that some gold was found near this idol; and all round there are more stones, large and small, all dressed and fitted like those already described. The famous ruins of Tiahuanaco, generally considered to be long anterior to the time of the Yncas, appear, like those at Ollantay-tambo, to be remains of edifices which were never completed. There are other things to be said concerning Tiahuanaco, which I pass over, concluding with a statement of my belief that this ruin is the most ancient in all Peru. It is asserted that these edifices were commenced before the time of the Yncas, and I have heard some Indians affirm that the Yncas built their grand edifices at Cuzco on the plan which they had observed at the wall near these ruins. They even say that the first Yncas thought of establishing their court at Tiahuanaco. Another remarkable thing is, that in all this district there are no quarries whence the numerous stones can have been brought, the carrying of which must have required many people.

I asked the natives, in presence of Juan de Varagas (who holds them in encomienda), whether these edifices were built in the time of the Yncas, and they laughed at the question, affirming that they were made before the Yncas ever reigned, but that they could not say who made them. They added that they had heard from their fathers that all we saw was done in one night. From this, and from the fact that they also speak of bearded men on the island of Titicaca, and of others who built the edifice of Vinaque, it may, perhaps, be inferred that, before the Yncas reigned, there was an intelligent race who came from some unknown part, and who did these things. Being few, and the natives many, they may all have been killed in the wars. Garcilasso de la Vega gives the following account of Tiahuanaco. There is also an enormous wall of stones, so large that the greatest wonder is caused to imagine how humnan force could have raised them to the place where they now are. For there are no rocks nor quarries within a great distance, from whence they could have been brought. In other parts there are grand edifices, and what causes most astonishment are some great doorways of stone, some of them made out of one single stone. The marvel is increased by their wonderful size, for some of them were found to measure 30 feet in length, 15 in breadth, and 6 in depth. And these stones, with their doorways, are all of one single piece, so that it cannot be understood with what instruments or tools they can have been worked. - [ ] " The natives say that all these edifices were built before the time of the Yncas, and that the Yncas built the fortress of Cuzco in imitation of them. They know not who erected them, but have heard their forefathers say that all these wonderful works were completed in a single night. The ruins appear never to have been finished, but to have been merely the commencement of what the founders intended to have built.