I can blow a massive holes in the "must wear masks" montra

a reply to: ScepticScot

thank you for making the point why in japan they are putting on the mask box WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM COVID

you just want to try to play word games and IMO doing it very badly.

if it isnt medically certified to protect you then WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from it

if it happens to work it IS NOT BY DESIGN but luck.

if your in a ship that sinks in the ocean.

do you want a "certified" life jacket available or a wooden barrel that "might" work but not rated as such.

which do you have on board ?

again i remind you experts used to say a EXACTLY REPLICATED bumblebee it is impossible that it can fly .
but the bumblebee was flying around quite well...


if these "experts" in the study are so sure of their finding.... then CERTIFY THE MASKS.
know why they wont?
because if they did they be legally liable and know they be toast

btw tell me again why sweden had none of the covid mandates and didnt have worse outcome?
or better yet in homeless camps where they dont regularly wear masks, are closer than six feet, large group , with multiple heath problems and not exactly good living conditions (food, water, sanitation) yet they have not been wiped out or mass outbreaks?

or that the survival rate is STILL overall 99.7 ?

scrounger

At this point...it is strictly for the purpose of covering my resting bitch face, while providing the ease of being able to curse and sing random song lyrics in grocery stores while everyone around me is unaware.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: scrounger

N95 that protect from dust would likely work well, as the virus can travel on dust particles. But if there's no certification who knows if it even works.

EXACTLY

wonder if people would use the logic uncertified masks work in other things
like cars, airplanes, parachutes/skydiving, or say hosptial medical equipment.

hmmmmmm
scrounger

a reply to: neutronfluxI

I have provided a link referring numerous studies showing how wearing a face mask does help protect others.

You just saying otherwise doesn't really refute that.

Applying what you may have seen taught about personal protection in specific circumstances doesnt really vtell you anything about how masks might reduce community transmission in completely different circumstances.

originally posted by: bastion
There's hundreds of papers and meta-analysis from pre and post pandemic that prove mask use significantly reduces the spread of viruses and even unfitted, home made masks capture around 90 - 95% of saliva, phlegm etc caused by coughing, sneezing and breathing which reduces coronavirus spread by 20%.

They don't protect protect the wearer, they don't stop spread but it's an indisputable fact from basic maths, physics and decades of research that they significantly reduce spread.

If one person has covid and wears a mask, correct hygene and social distancing they will infect four people in a week.
If one person has covid, doesn't wear a mask, distance or practice good hygene they will infect 1094 people in a week.

That was prior to introduction of vaccines so rates will eb much lower now.

Masks are less effective than distancing and proper hygene but the claims they do nothing are complete nonsense.

nice rant but STILL misses the key critical FACT

THE MASKS ARE NOT MEDICALLY CERTIFIED.

you can spew statistics till your blue in the face...
doesnt change NOT ONE of those involved with such things will put their neck out (as it were) to claim masks are medically certified to protect you...

because they would be handed their butts in court due to lack of facts...

need i remind you

"Correlation is not causation" means that just because two things correlate does not necessarily mean that one causes the other. ... Correlations between two things can be caused by a third factor that affects both of them"

tell me would you trust your surgeon to wear a non medically certified mask on you or want the mask to be certified?

doesnt your "studies" show you "should" be ok?

scrounger

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: neutronfluxI

I have provided a link referring numerous studies showing how wearing a face mask does help protect others.

You just saying otherwise doesn't really refute that.

Applying what you may have seen taught about personal protection in specific circumstances doesnt really vtell you anything about how masks might reduce community transmission in completely different circumstances.

Can you actually commit on what was posted. What, too much facts and logic how your referenced “sources” are taken out of context and might be biased Anecdotal narratives.

Nice of you to hand wave to support your story.

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: ScepticScot

thank you for making the point why in japan they are putting on the mask box WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM COVID

you just want to try to play word games and IMO doing it very badly.

if it isnt medically certified to protect you then WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from it

if it happens to work it IS NOT BY DESIGN but luck.

if your in a ship that sinks in the ocean.

do you want a "certified" life jacket available or a wooden barrel that "might" work but not rated as such.

which do you have on board ?

again i remind you experts used to say a EXACTLY REPLICATED bumblebee it is impossible that it can fly .
but the bumblebee was flying around quite well...


if these "experts" in the study are so sure of their finding.... then CERTIFY THE MASKS.
know why they wont?
because if they did they be legally liable and know they be toast

btw tell me again why sweden had none of the covid mandates and didnt have worse outcome?
or better yet in homeless camps where they dont regularly wear masks, are closer than six feet, large group , with multiple heath problems and not exactly good living conditions (food, water, sanitation) yet they have not been wiped out or mass outbreaks?

or that the survival rate is STILL overall 99.7 ?

scrounger

Thanks for the wooden barrel analogy it's entirely appropriate.

If a ship sinks having everyone wearing life jackets would provide the best protection. However if they aren't then lots of buoyant wood is better than nothing. Even better if there are life jackets and wood ( masks and social distancing).

Just because something doesn't provide 100% protection doesn't mean it doesn't help.


Also
www.abc.net.au...

People being asked to wear a mask is to stop the spread of the virus coming from the wearer.

NOT to stop the wearer from getting it. This is were most people get it wrong.

Its to protect others from you in case you have the virus. This is why you are asked to wear a mask.

To wear a mask is to stop YOU from spreading the virus in case you have it.

To wear a mask is not to prevent you from getting the virus.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: neutronfluxI

I have provided a link referring numerous studies showing how wearing a face mask does help protect others.

You just saying otherwise doesn't really refute that.

Applying what you may have seen taught about personal protection in specific circumstances doesnt really vtell you anything about how masks might reduce community transmission in completely different circumstances.

Can you actually commit on what was posted. What, too much facts and logic how your referenced “sources” are taken out of context and might be biased antidotal narratives?

Nice of you to hand wave to support your story.

You didn't offer facts or logic, you offered your unsupported opinion.

I prefer the results of studies.

almost 2 pages and nobody posted the meme with folks pissing on each other. I'm shocked.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: neutronfluxI

I have provided a link referring numerous studies showing how wearing a face mask does help protect others.

You just saying otherwise doesn't really refute that.

Applying what you may have seen taught about personal protection in specific circumstances doesnt really vtell you anything about how masks might reduce community transmission in completely different circumstances.

Can you actually commit on what was posted. What, too much facts and logic how your referenced “sources” are taken out of context and might be biased antidotal narratives?

Nice of you to hand wave to support your story.

You didn't offer facts or logic, you offered your unsupported opinion.

I prefer the results of studies.

What out of the below are not sources, are not facts, and is not true…. Please quote and cite.

Funny your source referenced this?

Aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where living quarters and working environments leave little room for social distancing, a study found there was a 70% reduced risk of infection among those who used a face covering.

news.sky.com...

Or was it herd immunity, and actually removing infected people from the ship?

What type of masks were used? And were they better trained and disciplined. Ships have better control of there ventilation systems, and at keeping people in specific area ms that can be blocked off by water tight doors used for compartmentalization to combat flooding and causalities.

COVID-19 spread freely aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt, report shows

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

In the case series, the US Army Public Health COVID-19 Task Force analyzed data from 736 of 4,800 USS Theodore Roosevelt sailors diagnosed as having COVID-19 and placed in isolation at Naval Base Guam from Mar 31 to Apr 15. Sailors who tested negative for coronavirus and those without symptoms were quarantined in single hotel rooms, and those who developed symptoms were moved to isolation.

The outbreak, which peaked on Mar 30 with 30 new cases and ultimately infected 25% of the crew members, involved 736 of the 4,085 sailors on board (18%) by mid-April. Of all infected sailors, 590 (80.2%) were symptomatic for a median of 7 days. The other 146 sailors remained without symptoms for the entire study period. Six sailors were hospitalized.

Anyway

Personal protective equipment can only protect you.

It’s not called social protective equipment.

Cheap cloth masks are not made to trap and hold snot and slobber for hours on end such as being forced to wear them at work.

Cheap procedural masks do not stay in place such as when loading lumber or groceries.

I was thought in the military and industry a mask that doesn’t seal is useless.

Cheap procedure masks don’t seal. They don’t have a hard edge that actually creates a seal like a N-95 mask or a respirator.

Do NOT Use a Mask With a Filtered Valve (It Can Spread COVID-19)

healthnewshub.org...

These are known as one-way valves, with the filter functional only in one direction. As you inhale, the incoming air is filtered. As you exhale, the outgoing mixture of carbon dioxide, oxygen, water vapor and, yes, possibly COVID-19 viral particles releases unfiltered. The San Francisco Department of Public Health actually tweeted a warning that these masks “may actually propel your germs further.” It prohibited them in its original public health order requiring masks or other face covering during the pandemic.

Wearing a mask that doesn’t seal is as effective as wearing a mask with an exit valve.

Most cheap stringy procedure masks are about 40 percent effective.

Would you use a condom for birth control that was only 40 percent effective.

It would capture about 40 percent of the sperm. But can you really say it would have a measurable decline in pregnancies?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: ScepticScot

thank you for making the point why in japan they are putting on the mask box WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM COVID

you just want to try to play word games and IMO doing it very badly.

if it isnt medically certified to protect you then WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from it

if it happens to work it IS NOT BY DESIGN but luck.

if your in a ship that sinks in the ocean.

do you want a "certified" life jacket available or a wooden barrel that "might" work but not rated as such.

which do you have on board ?

again i remind you experts used to say a EXACTLY REPLICATED bumblebee it is impossible that it can fly .
but the bumblebee was flying around quite well...


if these "experts" in the study are so sure of their finding.... then CERTIFY THE MASKS.
know why they wont?
because if they did they be legally liable and know they be toast

btw tell me again why sweden had none of the covid mandates and didnt have worse outcome?
or better yet in homeless camps where they dont regularly wear masks, are closer than six feet, large group , with multiple heath problems and not exactly good living conditions (food, water, sanitation) yet they have not been wiped out or mass outbreaks?

or that the survival rate is STILL overall 99.7 ?

scrounger

Thanks for the wooden barrel analogy it's entirely appropriate.

If a ship sinks having everyone wearing life jackets would provide the best protection. However if they aren't then lots of buoyant wood is better than nothing. Even better if there are life jackets and wood ( masks and social distancing).

Just because something doesn't provide 100% protection doesn't mean it doesn't help.


Also
www.abc.net.au...

you are correct in the absence of a "life jacket" anything that floats is better than nothing..

but you dont REQUIRE ships to have and mandate they use the wooden barrel..
you require them to carry (and in sufficient quantitates) what is PROVEN/CERTIFIED to work..

yes if your in the woods , been mauled by a bear, and a doctor just happens to be around you dont quivel over if his mask is medical or not as he is saving your life.

but if you are in same situation and the medics are coming , do you have them with certified or non certified masks?

along with using them according to medical protocol.

look the mask mandate alone has more than "reasonable doubt" of its effectiveness against spread, stopping, catching (or whatever reason they are using today) of covid...

it isnt a proven thing....

the fact that most masks are NOT CERTIFIED and those that are ARE NOT USED correctly negates any claims they are helping .

along with the downsides (like people trouble breathing and getting sick/viral loads from constant use) already proven of such policies...

again outside of "your guaranteed to die if you dont have that barrel" situation, do you mandate using any masks along with mandatory usage with a virus that

a. no proof it helps stop, slow or protect you from the virus
b. a virus that has in its worst (first ) form a 99.8 overall survival rate
with 80 percent recovering with minimum or such mild symptoms that TESTING and HOSPITALIZATION was not required?

again in LIMITED SPECIFIC cases (ex chemo ward or a KNOWN medical vulnerability) it is effective and warrented.
but again WITH APPROVED AND POPERLY USED masks

scrounger

purely for phycological purposes

would you even know there was a pandemic if everybody wasn't wearing one?

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: neutronfluxI

I have provided a link referring numerous studies showing how wearing a face mask does help protect others.

You just saying otherwise doesn't really refute that.

Applying what you may have seen taught about personal protection in specific circumstances doesnt really vtell you anything about how masks might reduce community transmission in completely different circumstances.

Can you actually commit on what was posted. What, too much facts and logic how your referenced “sources” are taken out of context and might be biased antidotal narratives?

Nice of you to hand wave to support your story.

You didn't offer facts or logic, you offered your unsupported opinion.

I prefer the results of studies.

What out of the below are not sources, are not facts, and is not true…. Please quote and cite.

Funny your source referenced this?

Aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where living quarters and working environments leave little room for social distancing, a study found there was a 70% reduced risk of infection among those who used a face covering.

news.sky.com...

Or was it herd immunity, and actually removing infected people from the ship?

What type of masks were used? And were they better trained and disciplined. Ships have better control of there ventilation systems, and at keeping people in specific area ms that can be blocked off by water tight doors used for compartmentalization to combat flooding and causalities.

COVID-19 spread freely aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt, report shows

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

In the case series, the US Army Public Health COVID-19 Task Force analyzed data from 736 of 4,800 USS Theodore Roosevelt sailors diagnosed as having COVID-19 and placed in isolation at Naval Base Guam from Mar 31 to Apr 15. Sailors who tested negative for coronavirus and those without symptoms were quarantined in single hotel rooms, and those who developed symptoms were moved to isolation.

The outbreak, which peaked on Mar 30 with 30 new cases and ultimately infected 25% of the crew members, involved 736 of the 4,085 sailors on board (18%) by mid-April. Of all infected sailors, 590 (80.2%) were symptomatic for a median of 7 days. The other 146 sailors remained without symptoms for the entire study period. Six sailors were hospitalized.

Anyway

Personal protective equipment can only protect you.

It’s not called social protective equipment.

Cheap cloth masks are not made to trap and hold snot and slobber for hours on end such as being forced to wear them at work.

Cheap procedural masks do not stay in place such as when loading lumber or groceries.

I was thought in the military and industry a mask that doesn’t seal is useless.

Cheap procedure masks don’t seal. They don’t have a hard edge that actually creates a seal like a N-95 mask or a respirator.

Do NOT Use a Mask With a Filtered Valve (It Can Spread COVID-19)

healthnewshub.org...

These are known as one-way valves, with the filter functional only in one direction. As you inhale, the incoming air is filtered. As you exhale, the outgoing mixture of carbon dioxide, oxygen, water vapor and, yes, possibly COVID-19 viral particles releases unfiltered. The San Francisco Department of Public Health actually tweeted a warning that these masks “may actually propel your germs further.” It prohibited them in its original public health order requiring masks or other face covering during the pandemic.

Wearing a mask that doesn’t seal is as effective as wearing a mask with an exit valve.

Most cheap stringy procedure masks are about 40 percent effective.

Would you use a condom for birth control that was only 40 percent effective.

It would capture about 40 percent of the sperm. But can you really say it would have a measurable decline in pregnancies?

You link to the navy ship doesn't mention masks at all.

The advice (certainly in UK) wasn't to use masks with filters, so you are greeing with the office advice.

The rest is just your personal opinion.

The fact it's called personal protective is irrelevant.

Your condom analogy is irrelevant.

I have provided links that show the evidence is firmly in favour of masks reducing spread.

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: scrounger
a reply to: ScepticScot

thank you for making the point why in japan they are putting on the mask box WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM COVID

you just want to try to play word games and IMO doing it very badly.

if it isnt medically certified to protect you then WILL NOT PROTECT YOU from it

if it happens to work it IS NOT BY DESIGN but luck.

if your in a ship that sinks in the ocean.

do you want a "certified" life jacket available or a wooden barrel that "might" work but not rated as such.

which do you have on board ?

again i remind you experts used to say a EXACTLY REPLICATED bumblebee it is impossible that it can fly .
but the bumblebee was flying around quite well...


if these "experts" in the study are so sure of their finding.... then CERTIFY THE MASKS.
know why they wont?
because if they did they be legally liable and know they be toast

btw tell me again why sweden had none of the covid mandates and didnt have worse outcome?
or better yet in homeless camps where they dont regularly wear masks, are closer than six feet, large group , with multiple heath problems and not exactly good living conditions (food, water, sanitation) yet they have not been wiped out or mass outbreaks?

or that the survival rate is STILL overall 99.7 ?

scrounger

Thanks for the wooden barrel analogy it's entirely appropriate.

If a ship sinks having everyone wearing life jackets would provide the best protection. However if they aren't then lots of buoyant wood is better than nothing. Even better if there are life jackets and wood ( masks and social distancing).

Just because something doesn't provide 100% protection doesn't mean it doesn't help.


Also
www.abc.net.au...

you are correct in the absence of a "life jacket" anything that floats is better than nothing..

but you dont REQUIRE ships to have and mandate they use the wooden barrel..
you require them to carry (and in sufficient quantitates) what is PROVEN/CERTIFIED to work..

yes if your in the woods , been mauled by a bear, and a doctor just happens to be around you dont quivel over if his mask is medical or not as he is saving your life.

but if you are in same situation and the medics are coming , do you have them with certified or non certified masks?

along with using them according to medical protocol.

look the mask mandate alone has more than "reasonable doubt" of its effectiveness against spread, stopping, catching (or whatever reason they are using today) of covid...

it isnt a proven thing....

the fact that most masks are NOT CERTIFIED and those that are ARE NOT USED correctly negates any claims they are helping .

along with the downsides (like people trouble breathing and getting sick/viral loads from constant use) already proven of such policies...

again outside of "your guaranteed to die if you dont have that barrel" situation, do you mandate using any masks along with mandatory usage with a virus that

a. no proof it helps stop, slow or protect you from the virus
b. a virus that has in its worst (first ) form a 99.8 overall survival rate
with 80 percent recovering with minimum or such mild symptoms that TESTING and HOSPITALIZATION was not required?

again in LIMITED SPECIFIC cases (ex chemo ward or a KNOWN medical vulnerability) it is effective and warrented.
but again WITH APPROVED AND POPERLY USED masks

scrounger

Nothing you have written shows that masks don't help prevent the spread. I have provided a link showing evidence they do.

Again something doesn't need to be 100% effective on order to reduce the spread.

a reply to: ScepticScot

You

ou link to the navy ship doesn't mention masks at all.

Really?

Lessons for congregate settings
The study authors said that COVID-19 is difficult to distinguish from other respiratory infections without specific testing in young people living in a confined space, and asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission limits the effectiveness of screening for symptoms in the absence of testing, wearing a face mask, and physical distancing. The ship initially had no testing kits on board.

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

The advice (certainly in UK) wasn't to use masks with filters, so you are greeing with the office advice.

Any mask is a filter. And it’s only as good as it’s seal against your face.

You

The rest is just your personal opinion.

It’s a fact that masks that don’t seal are useless when it comes to prevent sickness and death. osha statistics are full of them

The fact it's called personal protective is irrelevant.

Masks are made to protect the person wearing them. Cheap fabric / cloth masks are not made to hold and contain snot and slobber once wetted. That’s a fact.

You

Your condom analogy is irrelevant.

How for masks rated at 40 percent efficiency?

I have provided links that show the evidence is firmly in favour of masks reducing spread.

Ok? Biased crap that doesn’t apply to the reality of the average person wearing cheap masks doing physical activities that don’t seal.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: ScepticScot

You

ou link to the navy ship doesn't mention masks at all.

Really?

Lessons for congregate settings
The study authors said that COVID-19 is difficult to distinguish from other respiratory infections without specific testing in young people living in a confined space, and asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission limits the effectiveness of screening for symptoms in the absence of testing, wearing a face mask, and physical distancing. The ship initially had no testing kits on board.

www.cidrap.umn.edu...

The advice (certainly in UK) wasn't to use masks with filters, so you are greeing with the office advice.

Any mask is a filter. And it’s only as good as it’s seal against your face.

You

The rest is just your personal opinion.

It’s a fact that masks that don’t seal are useless when it comes to prevent sickness and death. osha statistics are full of them

The fact it's called personal protective is irrelevant.

Masks are made to protect the person wearing them. Cheap fabric / cloth masks are not made to hold and contain snot and slobber once wetted. That’s a fact.

You

Your condom analogy is irrelevant.

How for masks rated at 40 percent efficiency?

I have provided links that show the evidence is firmly in favour of masks reducing spread.

Ok? Biased crap that doesn’t apply to the reality of the average person wearing cheap masks doing physical activities that don’t seal.

Again you just stating something doesn't make it so.

The link I provided has studies based on lap tests and real world studies.

The bias here is fairly obvious.

Ok. And all you can do is post blatant falsehoods about my posts. And you offer no actual logic and facts of your own.

originally posted by: neutronflux
Ok. And all you can do is post blatant falsehoods about my posts. And you offer no actual logic and facts of your own.

I posted a link showing evidence that masks do reduce the spread of covid.

You are entitled to think they don't but if you can't provide any actual evidence then it's just your unsupported opinion.