I can blow a massive holes in the "must wear masks" montra

a reply to: daskakik

They don't, they reduce the risk the same way a bulletproof vest, which doesn't cover the entire body and isn't rated for every bullet out there, reduces the risk of death from a gunshot.

Because COVID can hang in a room and accumulate like “cigarette smoke” as quoted, the only protection is a mask that completely seals and is rated for aerosols. In inhalation and exhalation.


So. A more true comparison is masks and smoke/airborne particles. Or a pressure vessel under water with a hole in it. A “submarine” with a hole submerged in a “sea” of airborne virus is pretty useless when full of people actively breathing in the “sea” of air born viruses that surround the barrier that doesn’t seal.

As state over and over again. A mask that doesn’t seal is useless. Unreliable.

And the modeling you were referring to that “ No, you just keep asking for 100% and nobody ever said they offer that. ”. Was for large water droplets. Not airborne viruses. Is that a false statement.

If cloth mask were effective, there would have been no call to double mask.

You

No, you just keep asking for 100% and nobody ever said they offer that.

Ok. And as state before. The are not effective against a virus that is airborne unless the mask seals.

a reply to: neutronflux
We get it, no really, it isn't 100%.

Don't know why that is giving you such a hard time?

ETA: I didn't refer to any modeling. I said hold a mask over a source of water aerosols and the mask will trap something. By the way the source of the article you posted stated "aerosol suspensions" not that the viruses were airborne on their own.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: neutronflux
We get it, no really, it isn't 100%.

Don't know why that is giving you such a hard time?

ETA: I didn't refer to any modeling. I said hold a mask over a source of water aerosols and the mask will trap something. By the way the source of the article you posted stated "aerosol suspensions" not that the viruses were airborne on their own.

No. I am saying it wasn’t effective. There is a difference.

originally posted by: neutronflux
No. I am saying it wasn’t effective. There is a difference.

And effective to you seems to mean only 100% while others are saying that they realize it isn't 100% but that it does something.

What is so hard to understand?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: neutronflux
No. I am saying it wasn’t effective. There is a difference.

And effective to you seems to mean only 100% while others are saying that they realize it isn't 100% but that it does something.

What is so hard to understand?

Evidently cloth mask without an “N” rating weren’t being effective if there was a call to double mask. At that point, just advise people to wear an N-95 mask.

If they were “effective”, then you should be able to answer the below.

What’s the effectiveness of preventing individuals from being infected with COVID-19 with a cheap cloth mask that doesn’t seal against aerosols. And not made to trap and hold in body fluids?

As pointed out, if cloth mask were effective, why do hospitals spend the money for N-95 masks. For more serious means of protection?

Can you answer the questions?

a reply to: daskakik

Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities

www.nature.com...

The instantaneous particle emission rate of all detected particles between 0.3 and 20 µm in diameter. Surg.: surgical; KN95: unvented KN95 respirator; SL-P: single-layer paper towel; SL-T: single-layer cotton t-shirt; DL-T: double-layer cotton t-shirt; N95: vented N95 respirator. The subject gave her written informed consent for publication of the images in (b).

Yes. Sometimes it’s better to do nothing than wearing the wrong gear…

Same source

However, for the homemade cotton masks, the measured particle emission rate either remained unchanged (DL-T) or increased by as much as 492% (SL-T) compared to no mask for all of the expiratory activities. For jaw movement, the particle emission rates for homemade paper and cloth masks were an order of magnitude larger than that of no mask (Fig. 2d).

www.nature.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux
Can you answer the questions?

Not accurately but it is less than 100%.

Can you?

Evidently I did when I cited

“ Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities”

What was the result for single layer and double layer cotton masks?

a reply to: neutronflux
Yeah, I was responding when you posted that but, actually it doesn't really answer it since the authors of that study themselves pointed out:

These observations, along with our results from manual mask rubbing experiments (Fig. 5), provide strong evidence of substantial shedding of non-expiratory micron-scale particulates from friable cellulosic fibers of the paper and cloth masks owing to mechanical action.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Salander

If a store requires I use a mask I wear one for a few minutes and then it is off once I'm done shopping.

Wow, you're such a rebel. Have you gone back for seconds and thirds on the vaccine too since you obey like a good boy?

I like how you refer to people who choose to exercise their free will are "bitching". Passive aggressive much? This is very telling about your personality. You hate to see others not comply with idiotic CNN "science" (i.e. non mask wearers) so it eats at your core. "Why do they not comply!!!? I'm being a good boy and obeying like the others! They should have too as well. Why don't they quit their bitching!!!! I'm going to ATS to be super passive aggressive now! I'll show them all!!!"

lol


Don't get so mad bro.

a reply to: Type1338
Technically, if you bitch about having to wear a mask it is because you are not exercising your free will and are wearing a mask as well.

ETA:

This is very telling about your personality. You hate to see others not comply with idiotic CNN "science" (i.e. non mask wearers) so it eats at your core. "Why do they not comply!!!? I'm being a good boy and obeying like the others! They should have too as well. Why don't they quit their bitching!!!! I'm going to ATS to be super passive aggressive now! I'll show them all!!!"

Actually, it doesn't bother me if someone doesn't wear a mask. I do it to get done what I have to do. Makes no difference to me what anyone else does.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Type1338
Technically, if you bitch about having to wear a mask it is because you are not exercising your free will and are wearing a mask as well.

ETA:

This is very telling about your personality. You hate to see others not comply with idiotic CNN "science" (i.e. non mask wearers) so it eats at your core. "Why do they not comply!!!? I'm being a good boy and obeying like the others! They should have too as well. Why don't they quit their bitching!!!! I'm going to ATS to be super passive aggressive now! I'll show them all!!!"

Actually, it doesn't bother me if someone doesn't wear a mask. I do it to get done what I have to do. Makes no difference to me what anyone else does.

People who don't wear masks don't bitch about it. We just don't wear one. I haven't worn one from day one and even in those stores who claim to have some authority over what I choose to do and never once was I told or asked to put on a mask.

By virtue of your use of the word "bitching" you outed yourself as someone who is bothered by it. You just won't admit it.

originally posted by: Type1338
People who don't wear masks don't bitch about it. We just don't wear one.

That is what I said.

By virtue of your use of the word "bitching" you outed yourself as someone who is bothered by it. You just won't admit it.

Nope, I am bothered by people who bitch about it though. There is a difference.

ETA: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Just so you don't think it is a result of you trying to call me out.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Type1338
People who don't wear masks don't bitch about it. We just don't wear one.

That is what I said.

You can call an orange an apple but it doesn't make it an apple.

"if you bitch about having to wear a mask" is verbatim "what you said".

You keep being a good boy, now.

originally posted by: Type1338
You can call an orange an apple but it doesn't make it an apple.

Right, but I called it an orange.

if you bitch about having to wear a mask" is verbatim "what you said".

That literally describes someone bitching about wearing one because they have to, not someone who doesn't bitch about it but instead just doesn't wear one.

Besides, that has nothing to do with me caring if they wear one or not.

a reply to: daskakik

Funny you didn’t quote this part….

unless appreciable shedding of viable viruses on mask fibers occurs

www.nature.com...

In others. They tried to show cheap a$$ mask do something. And found they don’t do crap to effectively and meaningfully stop the spread of covid. They trued to put them in the best light possible, and still had to put caveat by it.

However, for the homemade cotton masks, the measured particle emission rate either remained unchanged (DL-T) or increased by as much as 492% (SL-T) compared to no mask for all of the expiratory activities. For jaw movement, the particle emission rates for homemade paper and cloth masks were an order of magnitude larger than that of no mask (Fig. 2d).

Anyway.

Same article. With another caveat.

Our results highlight the importance of regular changing of disposable masks and washing of homemade masks, and suggests that special care must be taken when removing and cleaning the masks.

www.nature.com...

To bad most people and kids wear the same mask all day. If not day after day. And don’t change them after a good cough or sneeze.

a reply to: daskakik

Have you any thoughts or opinions about the masks causing hypoxia and hypercapnia?

Or about the findings of the lab examination of masks at UF in Gainesville FL?

rationalground.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux
Funny you didn’t quote this part….

"unless appreciable shedding of viable viruses on mask fibers occurs"

I should have it shows more questions posed by the study than answers.

originally posted by: Salander
Have you any thoughts or opinions about the masks causing hypoxia and hypercapnia?

Leaky masks should let O2 in/CO2 out with no problem.

Or about the findings of the lab examination of masks at UF in Gainesville FL?

Anything found on the mask came from the wearer or it would have landed on them around their nose or mouth. These things are everywhere.

a reply to: scrounger
There's a video of this guy blowing a massive hole in his mask while its attached to his butt, lol.