the question our leaders seem to be avoiding, why?

originally posted by: chr0naut

Since 4.1 billion people have already received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine of some sort, and most of those vaccines have been under test since about March 2020, with very few adverse effects, don't you think the experimental phase is well and truly over, now we have proof of both effectiveness and safety?

so you can link me to the FDA approval?

Out of 198,821,310 cases worldwide, 4.234.360 have died from it in the space of a year and a half. That's more than 2% case mortality. In easier to understand numbers, that's 2 people out of every hundred.

In the US alone 613,866 have died from COVID-19. To put that into perspective, the largest capacity stadium in the US, Michigan Stadium, holds 107,301 people. So that's the equivalent of more than 5.7 Michigan Stadiums full of people who have all died of COVID-19, just in the US alone, in the last year and two thirds. That many people.

I'm poor at maths. what percentage is 606,000 (deaths from the rona) from 340,000,000? (US population)
Just so I have a good idea of the severity of this disease as opposed to other things.

If the world goes to hell in a hand-basket, then I really don't think ATS will be around, so our words would be as forgotten as an Egyptian Pharaohs' favorite popular musician.

However, in a few months, the phase 4 testing of the COVID-19 vaccines will be over, and my guess is that you'll still be calling them experimental.

And there are other things I predict, alongside, and related to, when this happens: There will have been no economic reset, no new world order, no apocalypse. That was really all doom-porn, as is already fairly apparent.

And as the years roll on, my words will stand testament to that, and your words will stand testament to your opinions.

Yes, your words will be here as long as the internet is. For all to see.

It seems the UK government is not as evil as their US counterpart if this is all true and correct.

£125,000,000 worth of antibody tests on order for those who are young, unable or not wanting to be vaccinated.

To avoid an unfair 2 tier system so a positive antibody test can be used instead of any "vaccine passports" that may be introduced.
inews.co.uk...




a reply to: network dude

a reply to: nonspecific

Wow, science for the win?

It's our government doing what seems to be the right thing isn't it?

We can't have forced vaccines if we have free antibody tests for all that if positive do the same as any proposed vaxport?

I thought you'd be pleased.



a reply to: network dude

a reply to: nonspecific

Happy for you, we have different science over here. I suspect it's the "s" in maths.

And I always though the U would be the one.

I meant happy in that this would indicate it's not some "global domination" plot and if your illustrious leaders try and force over bearing restrictions upon you then you have other nations to refer to and ask "why are we not following this example"





a reply to: network dude

No money to be made off natural immunity. Bigger still is it would allay fears thinking herd immunity is in fact real and a major factor protecting most of the population. They want people afraid, it makes them easier to manipulate.

a reply to: nonspecific

I totally get your point, and I have not thought it was some global conspiracy to punish me. It's just real science, and the fact that it's been ignored by most up till your post amazed me. The number of people who likely have antibodies and don't need the vaccine is an important number if the real goal is to achieve heard immunity. If the goal is something totally different, then what we see in the US would make more sense.

But again, good on your government for actually using science for what it actually is.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
No money to be made off natural immunity. Bigger still is it would allay fears thinking herd immunity is in fact real and a major factor protecting most of the population. They want people afraid, it makes them easier to manipulate.

the part where I got my initial information for heard immunity from the CDC website is what drove me to question this more than just the cursory glance. If the goal is to make money for big pharma, then yes, it all makes sense. If the goal was to stop the spread of a potentially deadly virus, then to ignore the CDC and it's definition of Heard Immunity seems wrong. Perhaps one of those smart folk can come by and set me right.

It's because natural immunity robs the politicians of playing heroes, it robs the pharmaceutical companies of unseemly profit and it robs the authoritarians of their effort to take rights, levy punishments and force medical treatments on the population without their consent and against their will.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: nonspecific

Yeah, I didn't mention the whole passport thing. That's a whole other dimension. And, you know, I don't even really have a problem with the passport thing for international travel; it's the passport for going out in public I have a HUGE issue with.

I don't honestly believe that the 'vaccine' is designed to be a eugenics driven tool of genocide. That's pretty far out there for me. But, what I don't understand is why it is so forbidden to understand the true side effects of the vaccine. I don't know if you've seen some of my other posts about what has, and is, happening with my FIL as a result of the vaccine, but some of these vaccines are cause for serious concern. AND...these vaccines are not all the same; some have different side effects than others. Why then can't this be openly discussed? It make no sense, and the fact that these discussions get shot down immediately, without another word, gets my spidey senses tingling.

In principle, I don't have an issue with socialized medicine. There are lessons to be learned from the UK and Canada. However, to reap these benefits we have to put the blocks to these attorneys and class action lawsuits, because those two are a toxic time bomb which will decimate both the economy AND the medical profession.

I think the passport thing will end up effecting mostly travel and maybe employment. I think it will fizzle out at the local level, much like the mask mandates. In my area there were about ten percent of the people that didn't wear masks and the stores just seemed to ignore them not wanting the trouble. I know some places were more stringent in the news, but not here.

I am pretty sure if one or two people show up and enter a store refusing to present vaccination status, they may stop them, but If even ten percent of the community shows up, eventually they will just let them pass and save the trouble.

I'm not sure but I'm assuming it's actually a costing issue rather than anything subverse.

Bear in mind that a lot of the vaccines given in the UK were astrazenica and we only paid around £2.80 a pop for them.

If enough folks had taken up the vaccine and antibody tests were not needed it would have been a lot easier and cheaper so Id guess they were either hoping everyone went for the jabs or at least had an idea of the size of operation for antibody testing before committing..

We've been pretty big on testing and to date there's been around 6 million covid cases to date, that's just under ten percent of the UK population. Even if you factor in those cases not reported but then subtract those on that 6 million that have seen been vaccinated I'd say it's still a good deal short of getting us to herd immunity.



a reply to: network dude

"Vaccine Passport" mandates are growing, like in New York City today.

Source: www.foxbusiness.com...

Covid-19 Antibody Passports should replace it. This will include those who have recovered from Covid-19. Excluding the tens of millions who have recovered is PREJUDICED.

I can't see a valid reason for a vaccine passport when an antibody passport would be the same thing.

I can see plenty of reasons just no valid one.



a reply to: carewemust

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

chr0naut I listen to the MSM quite a bit , Not because I like the Media but because there is Truth in lies .

They absolutely are not reporting deaths and if they are it's the exception , 98% of the words coming after Delta strain are " Infections " " Spreading" " Highly Infectious " or "Delta strain has infected X amount of people " .

They are not even touching the Deaths , Because there basically are none.

Mate since the start of this whole Covid-19 thing you have been running around ATS beating your chest supporting the common Left narrative , Why ? What are you so afraid of ?

Fiji and Australia which are currently experiencing outbreaks of the Delta strain are seeing significant deaths. A Fijian pastor I know personally, died of it the week before last.

Fiji records 13 more Covid-19 deaths, 1100 new cases

NSW records fifth death from COVID-19 Delta outbreak, woman in her 50s found inside her home

Even in the US:

Mum who didn’t get covid vaccine dies of Delta variant

Mate these are Cherry picked stories via the MSM and by you to make the Delta variant seem like it's more than it is .

These are very low percentage exceptions .

I don't even have to go look up proof that the Delta Variant is far less deadly albeit more contagious , Because you know it is and the MSM knows it is .

Yet that does not seem like it's going to stop them sending our society in to another even more pointless lock down . Answer Honestly chr0 do you think we can take another lock down with out it causing economic collapse. ?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

Since 4.1 billion people have already received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine of some sort, and most of those vaccines have been under test since about March 2020, with very few adverse effects, don't you think the experimental phase is well and truly over, now we have proof of both effectiveness and safety?

so you can link me to the FDA approval?

There are three vaccines approved for emergency use in the USA, so there are three of them which you can reference from here:

COVID-19 Vaccines - FDA

Out of 198,821,310 cases worldwide, 4.234.360 have died from it in the space of a year and a half. That's more than 2% case mortality. In easier to understand numbers, that's 2 people out of every hundred.

In the US alone 613,866 have died from COVID-19. To put that into perspective, the largest capacity stadium in the US, Michigan Stadium, holds 107,301 people. So that's the equivalent of more than 5.7 Michigan Stadiums full of people who have all died of COVID-19, just in the US alone, in the last year and two thirds. That many people.

I'm poor at maths. what percentage is 606,000 (deaths from the rona) from 340,000,000? (US population)
Just so I have a good idea of the severity of this disease as opposed to other things.

That would be 1.7% CFR, which is equivalent to 1 person in a hundred dying, and the other seven tenths of a person probably being dead because they would be missing a chunk of essential organs and stuff.

If the world goes to hell in a hand-basket, then I really don't think ATS will be around, so our words would be as forgotten as an Egyptian Pharaohs' favorite popular musician.

However, in a few months, the phase 4 testing of the COVID-19 vaccines will be over, and my guess is that you'll still be calling them experimental.

And there are other things I predict, alongside, and related to, when this happens: There will have been no economic reset, no new world order, no apocalypse. That was really all doom-porn, as is already fairly apparent.

And as the years roll on, my words will stand testament to that, and your words will stand testament to your opinions.

Yes, your words will be here as long as the internet is. For all to see.

Yours too.

So, I guess I'll say it again, since I got no reply the 1st time..does natural immunity work on a lab made, UNNATURAL gain of function virus. I think it's a valid question.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

chr0naut I listen to the MSM quite a bit , Not because I like the Media but because there is Truth in lies .

They absolutely are not reporting deaths and if they are it's the exception , 98% of the words coming after Delta strain are " Infections " " Spreading" " Highly Infectious " or "Delta strain has infected X amount of people " .

They are not even touching the Deaths , Because there basically are none.

Mate since the start of this whole Covid-19 thing you have been running around ATS beating your chest supporting the common Left narrative , Why ? What are you so afraid of ?

Fiji and Australia which are currently experiencing outbreaks of the Delta strain are seeing significant deaths. A Fijian pastor I know personally, died of it the week before last.

Fiji records 13 more Covid-19 deaths, 1100 new cases

NSW records fifth death from COVID-19 Delta outbreak, woman in her 50s found inside her home

Even in the US:

Mum who didn’t get covid vaccine dies of Delta variant

Mate these are Cherry picked stories via the MSM and by you to make the Delta variant seem like it's more than it is .

These are very low percentage exceptions .

I don't even have to go look up proof that the Delta Variant is far less deadly albeit more contagious , Because you know it is and the MSM knows it is .

Yet that does not seem like it's going to stop them sending our society in to another even more pointless lock down . Answer Honestly chr0 do you think we can take another lock down with out it causing economic collapse. ?

Wasn't someone just saying that they haven't seen any such reports of deaths from the Delta strain in the media?

Perhaps the reports aren't in the US media, but here in NZ, and on other news services from other countries, we are getting daily reports of deaths from the delta strain, from all over the world, since the strain was first identified, in December, in India.

originally posted by: vonclod
So, I guess I'll say it again, since I got no reply the 1st time..does natural immunity work on a lab made, UNNATURAL gain of function virus. I think it's a valid question.

Why would you think it would be any different?

The delta variant is by far the most prominent here on the UK and we still have deaths.

I think people may be confusing "less deadly" with "not deadly at all"

If something has a lower mortality rate but a higher infection rate you can end with more deaths.

It's pretty simple really.



a reply to: chr0naut