the question our leaders seem to be avoiding, why?

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
What if you took an antibody test before the vaccine and everyone figured out they were already exposed?

That scaring the bejesus out of people and mail in voting would be over not to mention whatever the real reason these vaccines are being pushed.

Your right on the Money there mate.

Does anyone have any information on antibody test?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

originally posted by: network dude
We know natural immunity is real. It's what vaccine science is based on. it's what has kept the human race going through time. It likely helped cavemen, cavewomen, cavepeople and of course cavebirthgivers a chance at having little cavechildren.

But as I know myself, and most of my immediate family have had both covid and a cold type sickness just recently. I know we can get tested for antibodies, but the only one who seems to care that I may have immunity is myself and my family. The government is only interested in getting shots in arms. If they "they being the government" would ask the question, and do the leg work, there is a rather large chance we are at heard immunity now.

That is if the vaccine is as good as we are told.

So why do you suppose nobody cares about the natural immunity part? In a science based world, it would be an important variable to keep track of. Finding out how long the immunity lasts, how well it does against new variants, if at some point it goes away, or if it stays with us for a while. I am told many things, mostly without citation that natural immunity doesn't last. But again, how do we know? Nobody is asking about it, nobody is keeping track, and nobody thinks about it other than those of us who likely have natural immunity and would rather not take the shot. I earned my antibodies. And I don't want your shot.

The center for disease control said last October they would investigate natural immunity, because it has worked so well against other SARS viruses in other countries.

Since then crickets. No investigations or research projects into natural immunity amongst covid-19 recoverers are underway, according to the Fox News medical expert.

a reply to: network dude

Natural immunity, doesnt do campaign donations. Herd immunity doesnt do kick-backs.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

Wait. You’re equating someone overdosing on drugs or criminal acts with not taking an experimental gene therapy?

Broken brains

originally posted by: zardust

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

Wait. You’re equating someone overdosing on drugs or criminal acts with not taking an experimental gene therapy?

Broken brains

Actually, I was trying to explain that what was being spoken of as as if it was a human right, isn't.

Absolute freedom is anarchy.

If large numbers of people choose not to vaccinate, then more people will die from the disease than would have died if they had chosen to vaccinate. Although this particular vaccination method is new, we have had 220 years of vaccinations that prove their efficacy in combatting disease.

And most of the vaccines are well out of their experimental phase, and none of them are gene therapies.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

I suppose it's nice to know who and what you are talking to. So you feel it's not a right to refuse an experimental drug for an illness with a low probability of death?

I can think of all sorts of wild scenarios to throw at you to show you how ignorant your stance is, but I think letting your words remain here in perpetuity will do more than I could with snark. I'm glad I don't know you IRL.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

I suppose it's nice to know who and what you are talking to. So you feel it's not a right to refuse an experimental drug

Since 4.1 billion people have already received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine of some sort, and most of those vaccines have been under test since about March 2020, with very few adverse effects, don't you think the experimental phase is well and truly over, now we have proof of both effectiveness and safety?

for an illness with a low probability of death?

Out of 198,821,310 cases worldwide, 4.234.360 have died from it in the space of a year and a half. That's more than 2% case mortality. In easier to understand numbers, that's 2 people out of every hundred.

In the US alone 613,866 have died from COVID-19. To put that into perspective, the largest capacity stadium in the US, Michigan Stadium, holds 107,301 people. So that's the equivalent of more than 5.7 Michigan Stadiums full of people who have all died of COVID-19, just in the US alone, in the last year and two thirds. That many people.

I can think of all sorts of wild scenarios to throw at you to show you how ignorant your stance is, but I think letting your words remain here in perpetuity will do more than I could with snark. I'm glad I don't know you IRL.

If the world goes to hell in a hand-basket, then I really don't think ATS will be around, so our words would be as forgotten as an Egyptian Pharaohs' favorite popular musician.

However, in a few months, the phase 4 testing of the COVID-19 vaccines will be over, and my guess is that you'll still be calling them experimental.

And there are other things I predict, alongside, and related to, when this happens: There will have been no economic reset, no new world order, no apocalypse. That was really all doom-porn, as is already fairly apparent.

And as the years roll on, my words will stand testament to that, and your words will stand testament to your opinions.

a reply to: chr0naut

You are ignorant on this subject. They are all gene therapies. They are all brand new technologies. With little to no previous history in humans.

Have you heard of the cutter incident?

No?

How about SV40?

No?

How about Edward Jennings own son dying of the magical small pox vaccine?

No?

How about all the ferrets that died?

No?

How about the swine flu debacle?

No?

How about “vaccines are unavoidably unsafe”

220 years of safety. When the pharmaceutical companies are not liable you believe there is great safety? They do all the testing and following up which consists of about 40 days on average.

1% of vaccine error is reported.

Safe and effective. Safe and effective. Keep repeating. It’s great propaganda. It makes you feel good and safe.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

chr0naut I listen to the MSM quite a bit , Not because I like the Media but because there is Truth in lies .

They absolutely are not reporting deaths and if they are it's the exception , 98% of the words coming after Delta strain are " Infections " " Spreading" " Highly Infectious " or "Delta strain has infected X amount of people " .

They are not even touching the Deaths , Because there basically are none.

Mate since the start of this whole Covid-19 thing you have been running around ATS beating your chest supporting the common Left narrative , Why ? What are you so afraid of ?

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

The mRNA shots aren't vaccines.

originally posted by: Tempter
The mRNA shots aren't vaccines.

They trigger the same reaction.

So, refuse to call them vaccines if you want, it doesn't change what they and vaccines do.

a reply to: network dude


You Have Been Found Guilty of Thoughtcrime , Please Step in the Van...........

a reply to: chr0naut

If you were seeking 'herd immunity' you'd need to coordinate an antibody response in X% of the population within a defined timeframe. One time antibody tests dont provide an indiction of strengthening or waning defense. I suppose you could plot tests on a line against a time interval to make that determination, but the costs and data management in a large population would be astronomical. It's much easier and more quantifiable to vaccinate everyone and log the date to determine the duration of an individual's antibody levels.

I personally dont think herd immunity with a non-sterilizing vaccine is possible or that the above is the proper approach, but I'd speculate it as the reason for not including natural antibody data sets.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

chr0naut I listen to the MSM quite a bit , Not because I like the Media but because there is Truth in lies .

They absolutely are not reporting deaths and if they are it's the exception , 98% of the words coming after Delta strain are " Infections " " Spreading" " Highly Infectious " or "Delta strain has infected X amount of people " .

They are not even touching the Deaths , Because there basically are none.

Mate since the start of this whole Covid-19 thing you have been running around ATS beating your chest supporting the common Left narrative , Why ? What are you so afraid of ?

A new paper that studied the virulence of the Delta variant:

Progressive Increase in Virulence of Novel SARS-CoV-2 Variants in Ontario, Canada

However, this paper has not been peer reviewed, nor do I agree with it.

The CFR for the Delta variant in the UK is significantly less, but that doesn't make it innocuous. Its greater transmissiblity means significantly more cases, which ultimately mean more deaths than ancestral strains in the same time-frame.

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

Because they are reporting the numerous deaths from the Delta strain. Which appears to be affecting younger people with fewer comorbidities than the ancestral strain.

chr0naut I listen to the MSM quite a bit , Not because I like the Media but because there is Truth in lies .

They absolutely are not reporting deaths and if they are it's the exception , 98% of the words coming after Delta strain are " Infections " " Spreading" " Highly Infectious " or "Delta strain has infected X amount of people " .

They are not even touching the Deaths , Because there basically are none.

Mate since the start of this whole Covid-19 thing you have been running around ATS beating your chest supporting the common Left narrative , Why ? What are you so afraid of ?

Fiji and Australia which are currently experiencing outbreaks of the Delta strain are seeing significant deaths. A Fijian pastor I know personally, died of it the week before last.

Fiji records 13 more Covid-19 deaths, 1100 new cases

NSW records fifth death from COVID-19 Delta outbreak, woman in her 50s found inside her home

Even in the US:

Mum who didn’t get covid vaccine dies of Delta variant

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: chr0naut

You are ignorant on this subject. They are all gene therapies.

No, they aren't.

Gene therapy From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are all brand new technologies. With little to no previous history in humans.

Not all of them.

Have you heard of the cutter incident?

Where a mis-manufactured vaccine hadn't inactivated the polio virus and was delivered to numbers of children before they realized it. No, of course I don't know about that.

No?

How about SV40?

Another polio vaccine contamination issue. I have no knowledge of that, either.

No?

How about Edward Jennings own son dying of the magical small pox vaccine?

Edward Jenner's son, Robert F. Jenner, inoculated when he was 11 months old, died 56 years later. His other son Edward R. Jenner, died young, but was never inoculated.

Did Edward Jenner’s Son Die from a Vaccine Reaction?

But I wouldn't know that, either.

No?

How about all the ferrets that died?

I wasn't sure what you were getting at, so I had to look it up. It appears you have been schooled in the highly accredited Facebook university.

Covid-19 vaccine did not kill every animal it was tested on

No?

How about the swine flu debacle?

45 million vaccinated. 450 adverse reactions of Guillain-Barre syndrome. What a debacle!

They should have listened to the WHO who were advising a more cautious approach.

Perhaps people could learn something and be cautious when an unqualified Republican President starts to give out medical advice?

No?

How about “vaccines are unavoidably unsafe”

220 years of safety. When the pharmaceutical companies are not liable you believe there is great safety? They do all the testing and following up which consists of about 40 days on average.

40 days, you say? Why have the COVID-19 vaccines only received emergency approval, then? Most of them started trials around March last year?

1% of vaccine error is reported.

And... you'd know this, how?

Safe and effective. Safe and effective. Keep repeating. It’s great propaganda. It makes you feel good and safe.

I do feel good and safe. I live in New Zealand, where we already had it under control, and I'm fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, too.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

Should people be free to play Russian Roulette, or to overdose on drugs, too? What about people who choose to do criminal acts?

Isn't any law that attempts to prevent people from self-harm or criminality, against their alleged 'right' to do so?

Is it actually a human right?

I suppose it's nice to know who and what you are talking to. So you feel it's not a right to refuse an experimental drug

Since 4.1 billion people have already received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine of some sort, and most of those vaccines have been under test since about March 2020, with very few adverse effects, don't you think the experimental phase is well and truly over, now we have proof of both effectiveness and safety?

for an illness with a low probability of death?

Out of 198,821,310 cases worldwide, 4.234.360 have died from it in the space of a year and a half. That's more than 2% case mortality. In easier to understand numbers, that's 2 people out of every hundred.

In the US alone 613,866 have died from COVID-19. To put that into perspective, the largest capacity stadium in the US, Michigan Stadium, holds 107,301 people. So that's the equivalent of more than 5.7 Michigan Stadiums full of people who have all died of COVID-19, just in the US alone, in the last year and two thirds. That many people.

I can think of all sorts of wild scenarios to throw at you to show you how ignorant your stance is, but I think letting your words remain here in perpetuity will do more than I could with snark. I'm glad I don't know you IRL.

If the world goes to hell in a hand-basket, then I really don't think ATS will be around, so our words would be as forgotten as an Egyptian Pharaohs' favorite popular musician.

However, in a few months, the phase 4 testing of the COVID-19 vaccines will be over, and my guess is that you'll still be calling them experimental.

And there are other things I predict, alongside, and related to, when this happens: There will have been no economic reset, no new world order, no apocalypse. That was really all doom-porn, as is already fairly apparent.

And as the years roll on, my words will stand testament to that, and your words will stand testament to your opinions.

In case you haven't realized.......THE NEW WORLD ORDER IS HERE. Every country in the world is participating in this conspiracy. We are in the beginning stages of the apocalypse. Look at all of the fires, floods, tornadoes and earthquakes occurring around the world.

You must be living under a rock.

And, as far as your forged numbers go.....there was a 99.9% survival rate without the vaccine. Lots of people die from the flu, annually. COVID was just an excuse to execute their NWO. 2020 had SIGNIFICANT numerology behind it. It was the perfect time. It officially began on March 11, 2020 or 3/11/22 (123 is the triangle of enlightenment, and 11 and 22 are master builder numbers).

Did you know: more people have died from Cardiovascular disease than have died from this silly "virus" named Covid; or is it Corona??? lmfao