the question our leaders seem to be avoiding, why?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

originally posted by: sciencelol
a reply to: chr0naut

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Absolute lies and fearmongering.

Viruses get weaker not more dangerous. What you just said is complete garbage BULL KAKA

The mutation part of viral evolution is entirely random. Viruses can just become unviable by mutation, or they can become pathogenic and highly infectious, it is just random.

Normally, then, it is natural selection which removes the least likely to survive. This is why the deadliest and fastest acting of viruses don't spread far, because they kill their hosts very effectively. However, if a virus does not kill with ruthless efficiency, it can spread to a lot more people, and because epidemics grow exponentially, they can be more deadly that the efficient killers.

The SARS-CoV-2 viruses, for instance have a low case fatality ratio, and have a slow incubation where they can be spread by people who feel OK either because they just don't react to the virus, or because they take time to fight it off. This means that despite the viruses low case-fatality ratio, they can be deadlier because they can infect more people.

The Delta strain is an example of that in nature, it has, I think, a lower CFR, but it infects more rapidly and people don't initially know they are infected until symptoms show.

Think of it this way, if a virus killed 10% of people in a group of 100 infected, and a mutated strain killed half as many people but was 10% more infectious, then the strain with the lower CFR would eventually soon infect thousands more people than the higher CFR version, and so would kill large numbers more, it doesn't matter that is is 50% less effective if the population grows to thousands of times more.

But in truth, all viruses pathogenic in humans are assumed to have evolved from earlier viruses, which by definition were once more benign than their pathogenic descendants.

Specific examples of these viruses that have gotten worse are: Marburg, SARS, MERS, SARS-Cov-2, Ebola, West Nile, Spanish Flu... the list goes on.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

But here's the thing...

I saw crowds of people protesting the lockdowns, rioting in the streets, and attending political rallies at the same time they were all supposed to be isolating.

The precautions don't work if you just pretend - a virus is too stupid to be deceived - it has no idea of what you are doing.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: chr0naut

The vaccine can reach more people, but they are now telling us that it's no good too. So what's the point again? No one has addressed that one either.

Who is telling you it is no good?

A drop in effectiveness from 95% to 93%, or one which requires an occasional booster shot, is not ineffective.

Why push a vaccine that they're now telling us is about as useful to stopping delta as a mask which is to say, not at all.

Is someone telling you to use a mask instead of getting vaccinated? I thought they were suggesting that people do both.

So either the vaccine is useful and they're lying, or it's not and they're lying, but one way or the other, someone is lying about something.

Or how about the vaccine is useful, but it isn't magical. So taking other 'low impact' precautions (also not magical) at the same time can be helpful.

And the liars are those who desperately want not to see things that are fairly common sense.

originally posted by: sciencelol

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: sciencelol
So, a virus is cognisant? aware, thinking..nope! you are wrong. Tell us the mechanism a virus uses to determine it's going forward mutation. I'll wait here..lol

Because if it mutates more deadly it cant spread right? That why this delta variant isnt killing anybody.

And remember the delta variant came out in brazil b4 the vax rollout.

Viruses can mutate to be more, or less virulent, the Zika virus is an example. I have linked a short read on it.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Another read
apnews.com...

I agree with you somewhat on Delta, I don't believe the Delta is killing people the same as earlier variants, but it is still causing some death, and obvious other problems.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

What percent do you think have had the virus (ball park)?
How many had a cold and didn’t think anything of it? Never got tested.
How many had no symptoms at all?

Can you site the source that says hear immunity is 80% I swore I heard 70...no I definitely heard 60% somewhere. Tomorrow I’m sure it will be 100%.

You might want to chat with the people that actually did get “hurt” from the “vaccines” . Or you could go with —It’s those pesky anivaxxers that are murdering all those innocent people narrative, too.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: zardust

COVID parties in the young did no good. Kids don't generally get it very easily or pass it on if they do.

Now colleges were pretty prime for it, and my cousin's oldest did a fine old job having herself a COVID party last year when she got back to school. She and her roommates hit several different parties at three different colleges on the first weekend and all of them got COVID. Funny, how they all got better within the week too absent the one girl who had a nagging cough for a few weeks.

Children catch the virus about the same as adults. It's just that they usually don't have as many accumulated comorbidities.

a reply to: chr0naut
wow you are so full of it.

most people not getting vaxed have already had the virus And realize that vaccine complications are way more likely then reinfections.

And they other people realize the vax doesnt work against the Delta.

originally posted by: SeventhChapter

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

What percent do you think have had the virus (ball park)?
How many had a cold and didn’t think anything of it? Never got tested.
How many had no symptoms at all?

Very few.

In New Zealand, we had a couple of outbreaks, but we locked down within hours of confirmation.

Many people were asymptomatic, initially, but most of them developed symptoms in quarantine.

Because of the fact that people could be infected and transmitting the disease to others without initial symptoms, We put a lot of stock into contact tracing and isolating all those who may have been in 'places of interest' where those who were infected had been.

We also have had a fairly significant push for testing, initially, but it has become clear that people do eventually show symptoms, and so the testing of everyone regardless, was not necessary, and we could concentrate on places of interest and those who were symptomatic.

And, it worked.

Can you site the source that says hear immunity is 80% I swore I heard 70...no I definitely heard 60% somewhere. Tomorrow I’m sure it will be 100%.

The herd immunity threshold HIT can be calculated from the number of new cases caused from a single infected person in a population that are the most susceptible to the pathogen (R0).

For the ancestral strain of COVID-19, the R0 is about 2.9, which means the HIT is about 65%

For the Alpha strain the R0 is about 4.5, which means the HIT is about 76%

For the Delta strain the R0 is about 7.25, which means the HIT is about 84.5%

For the Gamma strain the R0 is about 3.95, which means the HIT is about 77.5%

These are the most populous strains. If you average them out, the HIT is 75.75% and to begin to reduce the virus in the population, the numbers of vaccinated, and/or naturally immune have to be greater than that and so an 80% or greater target is assumed to be sufficient.

Herd immunity From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might want to chat with the people that actually did get “hurt” from the “vaccines” . Or you could go with —It’s those pesky anivaxxers that are murdering all those innocent people narrative, too.

VAERS and other databases of adverse reactions show numbers similar to what would be expected in a population that has not been vaccinated.

VAERS data does not identify that the vaccine was the cause of the adverse effects, merely that they occurred after the vaccine had been taken. To look for trends that may be attributable to the vaccines, you have to look for higher numbers than one might expect in the same number of un-vaccinated population.

Also, anyone can make a report to VAERS, these are not necessarily those of medically credentialed people and misdiagnosis is a strong possibility.

According to the CDC, here, "A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths."

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

originally posted by: sciencelol
a reply to: chr0naut
wow you are so full of it.

most people not getting vaxed have already had the virus And realize that vaccine complications are way more likely then reinfections.

And they other people realize the vax doesnt work against the Delta.

Many people make assumptions that they had it because they have has a cold or flu. That doesn't mean they had it. If the symptoms were mild, and they didn't bother to get a test done, then they could have had the flu or a cold. In New Zealand, we have recently had an outbreak of RSV, with very similar symptoms, and some quite severe, but we have been testing extensively and it isn't COVID-19.

The Pfizer vaccine has a measured efficiency against the Delta strain, of 93%.

Just catch the virus.

You ‘might’ get a bit sick, but not very likely.

Such a big campaign of propaganda (both ways) for one of the most harmless viruses in existence.

A China virus at that.

The last two years have been much ado about nothing.

Twenty million dead? Pffft, rookie numbers. A ‘pandemic’ this most certainly is not.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Been licking handrails since day 1

a reply to: all2human

Good to know

Thanks

I don’t intentionally try to catch the flu, but if I do catch it, I don’t care

The same with the China virus, only I care just a little less

a reply to: dragonridr

In terms of virus evolution, the first sample that was studied and analyzed in depth was the rabbit myxoma virus. The virus, which was transmitted between rabbits, was first discovered in the United States. Its disease is mainly caused by benign tumors in hares.

But after the rabbit myxoma virus reached Europe, it turned into a very lethal virus.

What you have written is not true.......

Myxomatosis is a disease caused by Myxoma virus, a poxvirus in the genus Leporipoxvirus. The natural hosts are tapeti (Sylvilagus brasiliensis) in South and Central America, and brush rabbits (Sylvilagus bachmani) in North America. The myxoma virus causes only a mild disease in these species, but causes a severe and usually fatal disease in European rabbits (Oryctolagus cuniculus). Myxomatosis is an excellent example of what occurs when a virus jumps from a species adapted to it to a naive host, and has been extensively studied for this reason. The virus was intentionally introduced in Australia, France, and Chile in the 1950s to control wild European rabbit populations.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: chr0naut

According to Google, 35 million American's have had Covid. I suspect it's a much, much higher number, because the only one's who get categorized are the hospitalizations. They guy who got sick and stayed home like he was told wasn't counted.

So your answer sounds nice and all, but for those of us who have had covid, and aren't interested in the shot, seem to be forgotten.

The numbers in Google come from the CDC/Johns Hopkins numbers and relate to those who have tested positive to COVID-19, not just those who have been hospitalized.

ETA: plus over half of the US has had both shots. So heard immunity should either be here, or it should be right over there.

Yes herd immunity levels (80% or more of population with antibodies) has almost been achieved in the USA, the last I checked. The issue seems to be those who think that the vaccine will hurt them. These people will be hard to convince, no matter what. Herd immunity doesn't mean that the disease is suddenly gone. It means that numbers will begin to dwindle rather than grow.

And those who refuse to get the shot will probably get covid, and based on what we know, get over it with a few of them dead. They made the choice. They have the same information you do. Why can't they be free to make that choice?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: sciencelol
a reply to: chr0naut

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Absolute lies and fearmongering.

Viruses get weaker not more dangerous. What you just said is complete garbage BULL KAKA

Your wrong!

Would you care to elaborate as to how he is wrong ?

Because Science actually says he is Right .

I bet you post on Twitter a lot , People rarely see the need to explain themselves on Twitter.

Its called science and he's wrong. Viruses like the coronavirus can change over time as they accumulate genetic errors, or mutations. The reality is viruses can and do become more lethal a great example is historically high lethal viruses such as anthrax and plague.

In terms of virus evolution, the first sample that was studied and analyzed in depth was the rabbit myxoma virus. The virus, which was transmitted between rabbits, was first discovered in the United States. Its disease is mainly caused by benign tumors in hares.

But after the rabbit myxoma virus reached Europe, it turned into a very lethal virus.


Viruses mutate a lot the reason is to gather more resources. Yes, you are a resource Some viruses spread by being lethal they work by increasing your viral load making sure you spread the virus. Cholera is a great example of this it's lethal but it relies on people helping the person with the virus. It then infects them creating more people needing medical attention and increasing the number of people exposed.

Its truly random how a virus will mutate what is important is how quickly can it infect others. Any virus that is easily transmissible has the ability to become extremely lethal.

The problem is - is that viruses can change, and they can change really quickly. A good example of this is the 1918 flu. It started out mild then mutated in certain regions and the next thing you know the mild flu killed 100 million. If they could have prevented its spread by say a vaccine the pandemic would never have occurred.

So the historical record says he's wrong we've seen it before viruses do not follow logic they are not sentient and go well let's be less lethal so we don't kill our host. That's stupid to even suggest, to be honest. Be like me saying my jeans are sad because they are blue. You cant attribute human thoughts to objects.

Yersinia pestis is the supposed causative agent of the plague. It’s a bacteria. Not a virus.

The 1918 flu had a lot of problems surrounding it. The origins aside, the big treatment was aspirin. The surgeon general actually recommended it nationally and then the second wave of death came.

Nearly all the deaths were caused by bacterial infection.

There is no evidence the influenza virus became more deadly. Or at least it isn’t clear.

You act like they were able to run accurate tests to determine what was taking place in 1918. Doctors were still bleeding people in the US. The level of technology was incredibly low. What we have now is a pieced together narrative that is not an open and shut case.

Also to compare covid to 1918 is insane. The living conditions at the time in general and it being the end of WW1 Which had devastated the world, make the comparison really poor. That should have been a major clue for people when the comparisons were made.

Through doctor faucis funding of gain of function research in wuhan. You know with the super trustworthy and exceptionally harmless ccp.

At least people wont need a tall tree to impose his sentence when this all finally comes to light.

a reply to: nonspecific

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: network dude

Because it takes time for a disease to infect people and to spread.

To get 80% of 330 million US citizens infected by natural means will take years (14 years, if the infection rate that has occurred in the USA so far, were to be used as an example. I know the spread would be faster as it gains numbers, but I'm just using observed infection rates to show the problem with obtaining herd immunity naturally).

In that time, the case fatality rate is about 1.7%, this would mean more than 5 million dead from COVID-19 in the US. This would happen even if everyone got the disease in one day, as it relates to the number of cases.

Not to mention that as numbers of the live virus increase, so does the likelihood of the emergence of new, and potentially more dangerous, strains.

Vaccination can reach more people, faster than natural spread, and has a negligible number of adverse reactions, or of the fatalities that the live disease has.

So at first we had to lockdown and wear masks because it was spreading too fast and now we need to vaccinate because it's spreading too slow?

The US has been in an Rt .9 to 1.4 approximately since the second month of the initial COVID outback so how much higher do we need the transmission rate to be?

The Delta strain is spreading faster than the ancestral strain. It is spreading faster now.

This is True .

This is the natural progression of a Good Virus . It becomes more and more contagious spreading to more and more people until the circle is complete.

But There is also one other thing , The Delta strain is way way way LESS DEADLY .

Funny thing though , Notice how the MSM is concentrating on the ""Infections"" but they don't say a word about "" Deaths"".

Why do you think that is ?

What if you took an antibody test before the vaccine and everyone figured out they were already exposed?

That scaring the bejesus out of people and mail in voting would be over not to mention whatever the real reason these vaccines are being pushed.