amazing precise craftmanship of granite sarcophagus of Senusret II

If someone was using molds to make pyramid blocks, then you would expect at least some of them to be exactly standardized and identical.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
If someone was using molds to make pyramid blocks, then you would expect at least some of them to be exactly standardized and identical.

Guess what?

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: Blue Shift
If someone was using molds to make pyramid blocks, then you would expect at least some of them to be exactly standardized and identical.

Guess what?

Chicken butt?

All this talk about this granite box, and you never mention the unique arched ceiling just above it ...

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: Harte

So you are telling me that precious and rare and expensive wood is back on the table for making molds?

Ok, so if thats the case then 30 000 workers can create one giant geopolymer block in 24h each.

So it would take only about 76 days to create all the blocks in one pyramid.

Are you a dumbass? Would you know if you were?

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: Harte

So you are telling me that precious and rare and expensive wood is back on the table for making molds?

Ok, so if thats the case then 30 000 workers can create one giant geopolymer block in 24h each.

So it would take only about 76 days to create all the blocks in one pyramid.

Are you a dumbass? Would you know if you were?

Harte

Remind me what do you call a person who has absolutely nothing even remotely intelligent to say so out of frustration just starts name calling?

I am gonna start calling you clownboy. Have a nice summer clownboy.

a reply to: Byrd

Hey thanks for chatting, lets agree to disagree since i have a feeling both of us can come up with a thousand points for our theories, (besides there is some crazy person here calling me names and blabbering about melting stones with lenses or something)

So hope you have an awesome summer!

originally posted by: Mike27
All this talk about this granite box, and you never mention the unique arched ceiling just above it ...

thats right, it is quite similar to Menkaure's.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
If someone was using molds to make pyramid blocks, then you would expect at least some of them to be exactly standardized and identical.

right, but an useless argument because..reality.

originally posted by: XipeTotex

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: Harte

So you are telling me that precious and rare and expensive wood is back on the table for making molds?

Ok, so if thats the case then 30 000 workers can create one giant geopolymer block in 24h each.

So it would take only about 76 days to create all the blocks in one pyramid.

Are you a dumbass? Would you know if you were?

Harte

Remind me what do you call a person who has absolutely nothing even remotely intelligent to say so out of frustration just starts name calling?

I am gonna start calling you clownboy. Have a nice summer clownboy.

LOL
YOU are the one arguing there wasn't enough wood to make bricks, if there wasn't enough to create MILLIONS of molds that would have had to be dedicated for months before removal.
Sort of an idiotic hypothesis.
Correction - it's not "sort of."

Harte

originally posted by: XipeTotex
a reply to: Byrd

Hey thanks for chatting, lets agree to disagree since i have a feeling both of us can come up with a thousand points for our theories, (besides there is some crazy person here calling me names and blabbering about melting stones with lenses or something)

So hope you have an awesome summer!

"A thousand points?"

You can't even provide a single point.

No great loss, your absence from this conversation.

Harte

originally posted by: anti72

originally posted by: Blue Shift
If someone was using molds to make pyramid blocks, then you would expect at least some of them to be exactly standardized and identical.

right, but an useless argument because..reality.

The stones right above the three seated men on the lower left very clearly show that things could not have been poured or formed in molds. You've got a layer of smaller stones that are irregular in shape (curved upper surfaces) and stones fitted against them whose lower surface roughly matches that curved shape.

There are many such examples throughout the areas of exposed stone.

No one making a mold would produce that shape without cause, but someone cutting stone could very easily do that because it was convenient.

Moulds? No chance . As has been stated , so many different sized blocks. If they were mass-producing moulds, they really really would have standardised them in some form, not produced millions of different sizes to complicate things further . It’s not how great engineers work, and the AE were blatantly great engineers.

Geopolymer? Don’t think so. If you melted all those different pieces that we know as ‘granite’ (different pieces all squashed together in the earth under super pressure ) then when you re-poured it and let it cool it wouldn’t look anything like natural granite. You can’t replicate how it was formed in the first place .
Secondly , once you had melted your granite (very very very hot) could a proponent of this idea please explain to me how your ‘wooden moulds’ could hold this molten rock without catching fire and being destroyed in minutes , possibly seconds , spilling out molten death everywhere, probably killing a few workers and igniting all sorts of things in its vicinity ?

Thirdly , the Sarcophogus of Senusret II ; as a machinist , things like this always catch my eye - as engineering is a mix of problem/solution and capability.
These objects with very accurate looking 90 degree corners, chamfers and edging throw up a question- WHY?
Why go to all the effort to cut a highly accurate 90 degree corner piece. Because it looked nice? Because they COULD? Both? Because it was NECESSARY to be that accurate? For whom , the Pharoah or the craftsman?
On what tolerances of 90 degree angles were they working? What was their reference point and how did they arrive at it?
Work of this Calibre isn’t arrived at by accident , nor just by ‘chipping away’ for ages, as the propensity for error is far too great and risky on an expensive piece of material for a pharaohs tomb- no , work of this calibre is arrived at through process. Again , these aren’t CARVED ‘edges’ , but RESULTANT edges from a two different ‘cuts ‘ from two different planes, a horizontal and vertical.
I don’t know how /what they did it with ,but in my line of work , these edges are only produced in the way I’ve described - they are the RESULT of two planar ‘cuts’.
If craftsmen can ‘carve’ horizontal and vertical edges this accurately we’d never have to have invented stone saws, or machine tooling as it could all be done by hand forever more.
Something else is going on here than the usual ‘pounders’ ‘copper chisels’ copper saws’ etc .
It’s high time that Egyptology PROVED to the world that this type of work and results can be done and replicated using AE tools. … and don’t throw Stocks work in here as it’s NOT good enough , by a million miles .
Until they do, other theories will abound , so come on Egyptology , prove it.

originally posted by: bluesfreak
(snipped)
Thirdly , the Sarcophogus of Senusret II ; as a machinist , things like this always catch my eye - as engineering is a mix of problem/solution and capability.
These objects with very accurate looking 90 degree corners, chamfers and edging throw up a question- WHY?

It's a sarcophagus. For the coffin. Which was rectangular in shape.

In the Old Kingdom, rectangular coffins were often constructed to mimic the recessed niches associated with elaborate, walled dwellings. This shape reflected the belief that the deceased dwelled in the tomb and received offerings from surviving family members Source: The Development of the Egyptian Coffin

So they weren't always anthropoid. The first ones were boxes.

Why go to all the effort to cut a highly accurate 90 degree corner piece. Because it looked nice? Because they COULD? Both? Because it was NECESSARY to be that accurate? For whom , the Pharoah or the craftsman?

To fit the square coffins of that period (first Dynasty, etc... so since the beginning of Egypt)

On what tolerances of 90 degree angles were they working? What was their reference point and how did they arrive at it?

The Egyptians were the first to develop the carpenter's square and plum bob and there's examples in photos from museums.

Work of this Calibre isn’t arrived at by accident , nor just by ‘chipping away’ for ages, as the propensity for error is far too great and risky on an expensive piece of material for a pharaohs tomb- no , work of this calibre is arrived at through process. Again , these aren’t CARVED ‘edges’ , but RESULTANT edges from a two different ‘cuts ‘ from two different planes, a horizontal and vertical.

There are some unfinished granite sarcophagi lying around, including this one in the schist quarries . Although the top is rounded you can clearly see how they're working the insides -- your idea of how the work was done and their work methods don't seem to be the same.

It’s high time that Egyptology PROVED to the world that this type of work and results can be done and replicated using AE tools. … and don’t throw Stocks work in here as it’s NOT good enough , by a million miles .
Until they do, other theories will abound , so come on Egyptology , prove it.

Perhaps you should do as the Egyptologists do and take a really close look at the sarcophagi (those interior corners are actually rounded where the drill punched down through the stone)-- or better yet, locate and read papers by Egyptologists on these sarcophagi rather than relying on non-Egyptological sites for information. Perhaps soemthing like this

Avoid things with titles like "ancient" and "mysterious" and "amazing", etc. I would also avoid anything on Ancient Origins site.

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Moulds? No chance . As has been stated , so many different sized blocks. If they were mass-producing moulds, they really really would have standardised them in some form, not produced millions of different sizes to complicate things further . It’s not how great engineers work, and the AE were blatantly great engineers.

Geopolymer? Don’t think so. If you melted all those different pieces that we know as ‘granite’ (different pieces all squashed together in the earth under super pressure ) then when you re-poured it and let it cool it wouldn’t look anything like natural granite. You can’t replicate how it was formed in the first place .
Secondly , once you had melted your granite (very very very hot) could a proponent of this idea please explain to me how your ‘wooden moulds’ could hold this molten rock without catching fire and being destroyed in minutes , possibly seconds , spilling out molten death everywhere, probably killing a few workers and igniting all sorts of things in its vicinity ?

Thirdly , the Sarcophogus of Senusret II ; as a machinist , things like this always catch my eye - as engineering is a mix of problem/solution and capability.
These objects with very accurate looking 90 degree corners, chamfers and edging throw up a question- WHY?
Why go to all the effort to cut a highly accurate 90 degree corner piece. Because it looked nice? Because they COULD? Both? Because it was NECESSARY to be that accurate? For whom , the Pharoah or the craftsman?
On what tolerances of 90 degree angles were they working? What was their reference point and how did they arrive at it?
Work of this Calibre isn’t arrived at by accident , nor just by ‘chipping away’ for ages, as the propensity for error is far too great and risky on an expensive piece of material for a pharaohs tomb- no , work of this calibre is arrived at through process. Again , these aren’t CARVED ‘edges’ , but RESULTANT edges from a two different ‘cuts ‘ from two different planes, a horizontal and vertical.
I don’t know how /what they did it with ,but in my line of work , these edges are only produced in the way I’ve described - they are the RESULT of two planar ‘cuts’.
If craftsmen can ‘carve’ horizontal and vertical edges this accurately we’d never have to have invented stone saws, or machine tooling as it could all be done by hand forever more.
Something else is going on here than the usual ‘pounders’ ‘copper chisels’ copper saws’ etc .
It’s high time that Egyptology PROVED to the world that this type of work and results can be done and replicated using AE tools. … and don’t throw Stocks work in here as it’s NOT good enough , by a million miles .
Until they do, other theories will abound , so come on Egyptology , prove it.

Yeah thats exactly how geopolymers work

And modern materials like liquid granite among other pourable stones. They need the power of a volcano or a nuclear plant to create those shiny granite blocks you see in modern buildings.

a reply to: XipeTotex

so THIS is your geopolymer?



nope. Its a pile of little and bigger and big rocks and lots of cement.

or this?



nope. this rose granit.
and neither rhyolite ( 'molten granite').


lets hope inside your head there is no polymer.

a reply to: anti72

There is always more than meets the eye. Besides those pictures are #e. Cant really see the microstructures.

I know an artist who has had many museums and galleries take in his "stone sculptures" and people have bought them with big money. Too bad no one knows that they are all made from artificial and man made stones. Not that they are not cool tho, they look really nice.

Could you explain to me what material you think was used by the AE to form the mould for the molten granite?
Thanks
a reply to: XipeTotex

a reply to: bluesfreak

I have cast geopolymers in platinum silicone molds, but i would imagine that if the object is not meant to be lifted, just sitting at ground level, one could use mud and straw, if it is an object high up, then wooden boards. for detailed smaller objects resin is not out of the question.

In south america, rubber gives an amazing opportunity to create extremely detailed and polished finishes to objects because the master could be a clay sculpture, then they would just make a rubber mold and a support mold before pouring their material in.