U.S. Pacific intel chief: Coming Chinese attack on Taiwan could target other nations

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

sorry but we wouldn't defeat them in hours, sorry to tell you but plans for the Soviet's would be useless because china has what they never had, a powerful economy, strong industry and technological parity. china is copying everything America has, down to policy and tactics. they learned everything from us and even improved upon many things.

i mean they are already starting to build a super carrier if that tells you anything, the biggest advantage they have is that it costs far less to build things for them, they could easily outnumber us in advanced weapons when they get going at full pace from that alone. china is the monster the Soviet union wishes it was.

Said PLAN would be sunk or burning within hours, or even minutes. NOT CCP itself.

U.S. trains for this every year. In detail.

CCP plan for PLAN is to hide their ships in widest area possible, to keep USN busy looking for them.

CCP has problem. We Already know where they are, and they are always within range.

Minutes.

No they’re not always within range what on earth are you talking about

You’re going to sink the PLA within a few hours lmao

Show me what that looks like please

We have subs for that.

And we don't discuss subs online.



Do you think we build them for pleasure cruises?

2 classes trail enemy fleets.

24-7-365.

Very capable platforms.

PLAN destruction usually only requires 1.

But many are always there.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

oh i see, misunderstood your meaning, sorry. as for your other point I'll say this, china is too smart to make it obvious until its too late to stop them, we got arrogant and helped them for a century without noticing their true goal or motivation.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: TritonTaranis

oh i see, misunderstood your meaning, sorry. as for your other point I'll say this, china is too smart to make it obvious until its too late to stop them, we got arrogant and helped them for a century without noticing their true goal or motivation.

Yup

To much corporate interest pulling the loom the other way strings

Military planners were warning for years how the PLA were integrating civilian and military platforms and how they could be used militarily and still the corporate power over the national security state seemed to win out every time

Even when Obama asked Xi about the island chains xi promised they’d never militarise them, now they’re essentially PLAN kill houses and still they’re upgrading them with many diffrent sensors nets and platforms, which means striking them will be even more difficult, suspect that’s when Obama administration started installing their regime in Myanmar burmah which the CCP recently coup’ed giving them more clout for belt & road and also a potential militarisation point in the event of a blockade at the malacca straits

Honestly it’s really not good but some people believe we have these wonder weapons in the hundreds just stored away in sheds somewhere, completely out of touch with reality and the seriousness of the PLA militarisation which is rapid and got more legs yet

a reply to: TritonTaranis

Ok then.

I still maintain the strong suggestion that Asian countries get their heads out of their asses, stop relying on the West to do the blood/sweat/tears routine FOR them, and get dirty themselves to prove their want & commitment to live like free people. if the Taiwanese don't want to stay under China's thumb, it's their responsibility to see to it, not ours. The longer they let someone else be their Daddy, the easier it is for that Daddy, to be their new Chinese dominatrix replacement.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You really think the Democrats are going to nuke China in defense of Taiwan? Really? You think a Democrat administration beholden to the CCP is going to put up much resistance? Really? Do you really think the most powerful corporations in the world, the Big Tech giants like Google, etc. who are utterly dependent upon the good wishes of the CCP are going to stand by and allow their puppet party, the Democrats, to interfere in a Chinese invasion of Taiwan? Really?

+1
its not a question of who would win, its a question of whether we'll fight.
I really think CCP has Biden by the blonde leg hairs. I think they will quietly let Biden know when they're moving in and suggest we stay out. they might even throw him an economic bone or two. or 'guarantee' Taiwan special rights.

if the USA doesn't fight for Taiwan nobody else will (except Taiwan itself of course).
it might be like the USSR vs Finland; Taiwan fights heroically and skillfully but gets overwhelmed.

how many in the USA are willing to fight for Taiwan? My guess is, not many.

The CCP have the greatest stealth programs and have had them for centuries. Everything you see in the media is purely manufactured by China's authorities, its just attention seeking tripe. Meant to deter you from the actual threats.

Their true war is economics, with anonymous black projects geared to manipulate and operate in the unknown shadows of the internet.

There's too much successful business endeavors, too good to pass up.

*because all this is strictly business... and the people are a living walking dollar to billionaires. They don't burn their money, they have a continual feedback loop, if anything... our governments want more people

today, media is another branch of the military in China and hack into U.S. banks continually (banks like wells fargo simply cannot stop the breaching of security)

a reply to: TritonTaranis

So let’s breakdown your post.. you claim CCP military superiority would be their downfall ? Why? Seemed to work out well for the US

Weird flex. They have no superiority.

Then in the next sentence you say since Cuba and Soviet diminished military superiority which we’ve already established bankrupt them see then never return, So how does that again back up your claim? it doest make sense, just sounds like you’re saying only militarily superiority benefits the US?

They never had superiority.

Missiles existed Turkey, as they do till this day. They're not aimed at Moscow though. Either way you're talking 30 years till them darn Ruskies finally lost to the bankers.

You also claim the USAF could deny the PLAN their own coasts and possibly a few hundred miles inland

LMFAO alright… the floor is yours captain America let’s hear that

Integration baby it's the future lol. AEGIS is old as some on this forum but it works and that's literally for starters.

I'm a pacifist Brit though so maybe you should enlighten us on capabilities constantly demonstrated by our tarty relationship.

a reply to: Nyiah

They have, they do and they will.



Everyone has their kinks, self determination is mine and I know it's a shared one. I can't imagine dommes are into that.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: TritonTaranis

Ok then.

I still maintain the strong suggestion that Asian countries get their heads out of their asses, stop relying on the West to do the blood/sweat/tears routine FOR them, and get dirty themselves to prove their want & commitment to live like free people. if the Taiwanese don't want to stay under China's thumb, it's their responsibility to see to it, not ours. The longer they let someone else be their Daddy, the easier it is for that Daddy, to be their new Chinese dominatrix replacement.

Taiwan has their own defence force and to be honest it wouldnt be easy for China to take them out. They went so far as to build runways in mountains. Their plan is simple be able to survive an intial attack and stop ground troops from landing.

The problem for the United States besides Taiwan being an ally. Is Japan they already made it clear if China attempts to invade Taiwan they will get involved. So now Japan another ally of the Unted States will enter the fight.

Which of course means Us assets in the region will have to be involved.

There won't be a war, everyone has nukes.

All china has to do is shut down supply chains and its goodbye US economy. It would take decades for the Us to build the infrastructure to self sustain and Americans would need to work for tiny wages to achieve it.

The world relies on each other economically to much for any of the large economies to go to war.

Theres a big difference between going to war with a 3rd world country and china.

We couldn't even beat the Taliban.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
All china has to do is shut down supply chains and its goodbye US economy. It would take decades for the Us to build the infrastructure to self sustain and Americans would need to work for tiny wages to achieve it.

The world relies on each other economically to much for any of the large economies to go to war.

Really? You should tell that to the Japanese circa December 6th, 1941, The United States was their largest trading partner.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Actually, more like the other way around! All the US would have to do is embargo China, and their economy would go tits up in short order! And, we wouldn't really even have to do that really, just cutting off our exports of raw materials would do it.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Actually, more like the other way around! All the US would have to do is embargo China, and their economy would go tits up in short order! And, we wouldn't really even have to do that really, just cutting off our exports of raw materials would do it.

The US imports 3 times.more than it exports to china.

Things are a lot different now than they were in 1941 also.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

True, but it's the "what" which is important here. Dollar wise it may be 3x the amount, but it's the content of those exports which counts.

Oh, and I'm acutely aware of the differences between now and 1941.

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Actually, more like the other way around! All the US would have to do is embargo China, and their economy would go tits up in short order! And, we wouldn't really even have to do that really, just cutting off our exports of raw materials would do it.

The US imports 3 times.more than it exports to china.

Things are a lot different now than they were in 1941 also.

Well, that's actually not true many of us companies open up factories in China to take advantage of cheap labor. Mostly electronics like toasters microwaves etc. We ship the parts there for manufacture. This gets counted as a Chinese export that would stop in a war. the other thing China is highly dependent on receiving food cotton aluminum and copper from the US. Loss of any one of these cripples their economy or causing mass starvation.

Here is what china gets from the US

Soybeans: $15 billion
Civilian aircraft: $8.4 billion
Cotton: $3.4 billion
Copper materials: $3 billion
Passenger vehicles (small engines): $3 billion
Aluminum materials: $2.4 billion
Passenger vehicles (large engines): $2.2 billion
Electronic integrated circuits: $1.7 billion
Corn: $1.3 billion
Coal: $1.2 billion

There number 1 product to the US is cell phones followed by consumer electronics. think wish dot.com. All these are still manufactured in the US problem is they cost more So who do you think loses in a total trade war? If anything it would beefit the US economy as manufacturers here would need to ramp up production.

a reply to: Nunyabizisit



Many military thinkers examined the outcome of the Gulf War (1991) in isolation. Incorrectly, they concluded that technological advances removed the fog of war. Effectively, the mastery of battlefields changes the nature of war.

Of course, that notion is utter nonsense and was dis-proven in the Vietnam War. The U.S. military and their updated equipment struggled in Vietnam. Yet, at the same time, NASA's Apollo Program is heading for the moon. Incidentally, and, yet, Donald Rumsfeld, the worst Sectary of Defence, embraced those fallacies. Old ideas died hard in the sands of Iraq (2003- 7) and Afghanistan.

Nevertheless, select analysts confuse the changing character with the enduring nature of warfare. Williamson Murray's America and the Future of War: The Past as Prologue is an excellent take on those topics.

Additionally, a few other points are worth noting. For Saddam's expansionists aim ceased in Kuwait. The build-up of coalition forces by sea and air in Saudi Arabia was unopposed. Moreover, letting enemy forces "box, you in" is military daft.

On land, coalition forces employed manoeuvre warfare to defeat their numerically superior and static enemy force. Strictly speaking, the Gulf War and the Fall of France, 1940 share that characteristic. Note, The French failed to deploy their tanks en-mass and relied on largely stationary infantry units. However, Nazi Germany and the international coalition that liberated Kuwait are in no way morally comparable.

In the air, the Iraqi either fled to Iran or never joined in the fray.

None of the above conditions seen in the Gulf War applies to a war in Asia.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

The Chinese employing strategic deception and diversions add another layer to the cake. Granted, the level of sophistication to successfully on careful planning and U.S/allied intelligence community displaying bureaucratic incompetence or just plain ineptitude. Heck, 9-11 and the Iraqi WMD debacle hardly inspires my confidence in the military/intel establishments ability to read Chinese intentions.

The Chinese aren't dumb enough to telegraph their intentions, and they are content for the USN and USAF to chase ghosts.

a reply to: dragonridr

Like you said most of the items the US gets from China and the rest of Asia are electronics and technology based items. Much of that has little or nothing to do with actually surviving if a major war did break out. As you posted what does Chine get that is critical? Food, textiles, and energy. Maybe China could get some energy from another source but the food issue is very real and very serious for China. What if a bunch of other US allies refuse to send China food?

Brazil and others have already drastically or all together stopped exports of food to China. Couple that with the major flooding happening in China now, they are in big trouble if they cannot grow their own food. Then you take into account their meat production issues they have every year. In the time of war what happens if they have a hug breakout of swine or bird flu and they need to kill 100s of thousands of animals that took food to grow and then get nothing out of them.

If you have ever bought anything mechanical made in China would you trust them to be able to build military hardware that would not only be reliable but last in adverse conditions? How long would a food shortage in China take for the people to turn on the CCP and completely devastate their ability to produce these goods?

China would be foolish to attack unless they have some plan where the US and allies could be eliminated/neutralized very quickly and any conflict that lasts a significant amount of time could be reduced.

originally posted by: Hypntick
a reply to: TritonTaranis

Shame that the Russians are so preoccupied with ticking off the US that they don't see the massive threat that shares a border with them. This isn't Germany, the CCP doesn't care how many it loses as long as they can get the natural resources.

Exactly. Russia and America should be cooperating to contain China, which is by far the biggest existential threat to both nations. The Russians just can't seem to get over their defeat in the Cold War. They're going to lose a lot more of their empire if they don't wake up.

We also need to drop Pakistan as an ally and sign a mutual defense treaty with India. Another priority should be to get South Korea and Japan to resolve their differences and start cooperating closely with each other and Taiwan to deter the Middle Kingdom.