CDC: Covid is sole cause of death in only 5 percent of cases.

a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Does that work for a pancreatic cancer patient?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: Madviking

What the op is saying is that people who are already sick are more vulnerable to covid.

No S sherlock.

We knew this ages ago.

Other things we already know:
-The overwhelming number of people that contracted covid survived.
-Before covid, people died from heart attacks, strokes and the like.
Look at those two things together.
I personally know people that died of other causes after they recovered from covid, yet their deaths were coded as covid. One was my uncle. His wife is a registered nurse. She saw the paperwork, and she isn’t a conspiracy theorist.

We also allow know there was a massive increase in overall excess deaths over the period of the pandemic.

jamanetwork.com...

Claims of re-attributing cause of death don't explain that.

Yes, one would expect that with a deadly pandemic.
I am not denying that people died solely from COVID. I spent nearly a week in the hospital with COVID and recovered, thanks to a convalescent plasma transfusion.

To deny the numbers are inflated is hard when you know of several first hand that died from other causes and were listed as COVID because of a positive test result... especially if the person died in a multiple fatality automobile accident.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

That is a bit absolute. They may or may not have died. There is no real way to tell. Lots of people die with just pneumonia every year...lots. You getting COVID during the mix may or may not be the nail in the coffin -- the nail may very well have been set already.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

You clearly know nothing about COPD....

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Of course in some cases, but people aren't getting it. Neither does this mean that they wouldn't have died without Covid either. You, and those counting these as Covid deaths, are presuming they wouldn't have. It is that presumption, that is not scientifically valid. How do you know they wouldn't have died from the severe heart disease they already had?

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: Madviking

What the op is saying is that people who are already sick are more vulnerable to covid.

No S sherlock.

We knew this ages ago.

Other things we already know:
-The overwhelming number of people that contracted covid survived.
-Before covid, people died from heart attacks, strokes and the like.
Look at those two things together.
I personally know people that died of other causes after they recovered from covid, yet their deaths were coded as covid. One was my uncle. His wife is a registered nurse. She saw the paperwork, and she isn’t a conspiracy theorist.

We also allow know there was a massive increase in overall excess deaths over the period of the pandemic.

jamanetwork.com...

Claims of re-attributing cause of death don't explain that.

Yes, one would expect that with a deadly pandemic.
I am not denying that people died solely from COVID. I spent nearly a week in the hospital with COVID and recovered, thanks to a convalescent plasma transfusion.

To deny the numbers are inflated is hard when you know of several first hand that died from other causes and were listed as COVID because of a positive test result... especially if the person died in a multiple fatality automobile accident.

If theycovid deaths were seriously inflated we wouldn't have seen the increase in excess deaths.

While there probably is a decent number of deaths categorised as covid that weren't, there is also probably many actual covid deaths, particularly in early months the pandemic, that were not counted as covid deaths.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: Madviking

What the op is saying is that people who are already sick are more vulnerable to covid.

No S sherlock.

We knew this ages ago.

I wrote the op, I am not saying that as the main point. Yes, people who are already sick are more vulnerable. That's only one layer.

When only 5% of Covid deaths have Covid as the sole cause, then 95% have an average of 4 additional causes, it absolutely undermines the assumption that the individual died from Covid rather than other causes.

originally posted by: Madviking
When only 5% of Covid deaths have Covid as the sole cause, then 95% have an average of 4 additional causes, it absolutely undermines the assumption that the individual died from Covid rather than other causes.

Wrong again. If covid, or any virus, is the only cause listed on a death certificate, then the death certificate was filled out wrong. Viruses don't kill people, the symptoms do, and symptoms are comorbidities which should be listed on a death certificate.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Madviking
When only 5% of Covid deaths have Covid as the sole cause, then 95% have an average of 4 additional causes, it absolutely undermines the assumption that the individual died from Covid rather than other causes.

Wrong again. If covid, or any virus, is the only cause listed on a death certificate, then the death certificate was filled out wrong. Viruses don't kill people, the symptoms do, and symptoms are comorbidities which should be listed on a death certificate.

This is incorrect for all of the data.

For example, in the Italian study I posted, it stated many co-morbidities were chronic pre-existing conditions, not just "symptoms" due to covid.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Does that work for a pancreatic cancer patient?

Why wouldn't it? Are you suggesting everyone with pancreatic cancer is dead within a few weeks?

originally posted by: angelchemuel

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

You clearly know nothing about COPD....

Says the person who thinks anyone who dies from Covid is because a Dr sucks and 0 people should die and thinks that a patient requiring high flow oxygen just needs you to send them some stuff in the mail and they will be fine to walk out of the hospital. Please enlighten me, what is it about COPD I don't know?

originally posted by: Madviking

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Of course in some cases, but people aren't getting it. Neither does this mean that they wouldn't have died without Covid either. You, and those counting these as Covid deaths, are presuming they wouldn't have. It is that presumption, that is not scientifically valid. How do you know they wouldn't have died from the severe heart disease they already had?

They very well may have, but if they died in 2 weeks vs 2 years did Covid not hasten their death and take years from them? I completely agree the number of covid deaths was inflated for political purposes. I would guess 1/4-1/3 of the deaths should not have been attributed to Covid. Driving drunk and wrecking your car while you tested positive for Covid does not a covid death make .. but by the same token having a comorbidity does not mean covid was not the major cause of death.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Does that work for a pancreatic cancer patient?

Why wouldn't it? Are you suggesting everyone with pancreatic cancer is dead within a few weeks?

No.
I am saying that people die of pancreatic cancer when they have never contracted COVID.
I should have used automobile accident victim as the example so it would be more clear for you.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Does that work for a pancreatic cancer patient?

Why wouldn't it? Are you suggesting everyone with pancreatic cancer is dead within a few weeks?

No.
I am saying that people die of pancreatic cancer when they have never contracted COVID.
I should have used automobile accident victim as the example so it would be more clear for you.

Not a question of clear or unclear. Accidents were one way they inflated the death toll.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Madviking

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Of course in some cases, but people aren't getting it. Neither does this mean that they wouldn't have died without Covid either. You, and those counting these as Covid deaths, are presuming they wouldn't have. It is that presumption, that is not scientifically valid. How do you know they wouldn't have died from the severe heart disease they already had?

They very well may have, but if they died in 2 weeks vs 2 years did Covid not hasten their death and take years from them? I completely agree the number of covid deaths was inflated for political purposes. I would guess 1/4-1/3 of the deaths should not have been attributed to Covid. Driving drunk and wrecking your car while you tested positive for Covid does not a covid death make .. but by the same token having a comorbidity does not mean covid was not the major cause of death.

Right, that's why I agree some cases likely were primarily due to Covid.

My main point is that reading through the protocols, and looking at the data, it doesn't seem as if the appraisal of Covid-attributed deaths, and the resulting policies based on them, were conservative enough from a medical and scientific perspective. Too many it's unclear what was the main cause of death.

originally posted by: Madviking

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Madviking

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Madviking

Comorbidities does not = going to die anyways. If someone has COPD, pneumonia, and gets Covid and dies, Covid is not the sole cause of death, but sans Covid they would have recovered and not died.

Of course in some cases, but people aren't getting it. Neither does this mean that they wouldn't have died without Covid either. You, and those counting these as Covid deaths, are presuming they wouldn't have. It is that presumption, that is not scientifically valid. How do you know they wouldn't have died from the severe heart disease they already had?

They very well may have, but if they died in 2 weeks vs 2 years did Covid not hasten their death and take years from them? I completely agree the number of covid deaths was inflated for political purposes. I would guess 1/4-1/3 of the deaths should not have been attributed to Covid. Driving drunk and wrecking your car while you tested positive for Covid does not a covid death make .. but by the same token having a comorbidity does not mean covid was not the major cause of death.

Right, that's why I agree some cases likely were primarily due to Covid.

My main point is that reading through the protocols, and looking at the data, it doesn't seem as if the appraisal of Covid-attributed deaths, and the resulting policies based on them, were conservative enough from a medical and scientific perspective. Too many it's unclear what was the main cause of death.

There were a lot of incentives and a lot of political pressure to inflate Covid deaths. They wanted Trump gone and this was their solution.

Things are basically back to normal in America, just look at all those fans at sports events almost no one has masks on and there is no social distancing going on.

And people are still dying from other things, not covid.

Covid itself has fairly mild, similar to flu, a bit more than common cold but far less than SARS.

One thing is for sure. Covid is cash cow for vaccine industry. They are talking about annual booster shots. That's trillions of profit every single year.