The Dream of Life - Alan Watts

a reply to: whereislogic

Which part of my comment did you interpret as 'judging them anyway'?

This bit:

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.”

You appear to consider his talks and writings as false stories...and you go on to imply that he is teaching by means of trickery with cunning and deceptive schemes.

a reply to: whereislogic

Is that truly wisdom? Enlightenment? Or could it be a hinderance to such as the Bible explains and teaches?

Be mindful that you are not coloring the words of the bible with the limitations of your own mind.

A quote attributed to St Francis of Assisi ... "The One you are looking for is the One who is looking".
A quote attributed to theologian Meister Eckhart ... "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love."

Perhaps these concepts of God can fit into scripture in the understanding of John 10:30 - 10:34.

"I and the Father are one"
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods".

If you listen to Alan Watts video with these concepts in mind you may not see it as objectionable.

Note: If we label God as this or that our mind is limiting God as finite. Our mind is incapable of grasping or containing the infinite.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
I introduced that text with this phrase:

Seeing the popularity of these sort of gurus (religious teachers with an emphasis on Eastern religious philosophies) I am often reminded of 2 Timothy 4:3,4:

It was about the popularity of teachers of Eastern religious philosophies in general, not so much Alan Watts specifically. And I only said it (that popularity) reminded me of that text, I phrased it like that on purpose cause I was suspecting your type of response. If I just come out and say that I have discovered that Eastern religious philosophies contain many false stories, well, you get the type of response and the reluctance to consider whether or not I'm right about that, that is on display now anyway, as described at the start of that text with the phrase "will not put up with", because that information doesn't tickle your ears.

So I guess it didn't matter for you in the end that I phrased it that way. Of course, no matter how I phrase it, it's never going to tickle your ears cause you are quite impressed by these philosophies, and any suggestion that they are perhaps less valuable than you think they are is going to be unwelcome. When bringing up 2 Timothy 4:3,4 I wasn't thinking of the term "false stories" at the end, but the concept of 'not putting up with something when it's not tickling one's ears' and the opposite when it is (eagerly accepting as valuable wisdom, insight, knowledge or enlightenment, or being quite intrigued by it, spending time taking it all in, feeding one's mind with it*). That's what I'm reminded of when "seeing the popularity of these sort of gurus (religious teachers with an emphasis on Eastern religious philosophies)" in general (and that's why I'm talking about popularity, popular teachings and philosophies are those which tickle the ears of the audience/listener/market; using the term "market" cause many of these philosophers and teachers make a living with it, appealing to their market by tickling their ears much in the same way the entertainment industry does it with their markets). I was elaborating on your question concerning what I think about Alan Watts' writings or talks, after explaining that I'm not familiar enough with them to speak about them specifically but I am familiar with "Eastern philosophies of Buddhism, Taoism, and Hinduism for a Western audience" and those "popularizing" them in general (quoting wikipedia again), so I could say something about that instead. Trying not to be too confrontational about the one you are so impressed with and look up to for answers and enlightenment; the one you were already somewhat defensive about before my first comment (my comment also being about alcoholism in general, and not making it about Alan Watts specifically).

*: see text under my name + my signature to see why I'm saying it that way.

How would you go about alerting people to the possibility of being misled by those who are merely using “smooth talk and complimentary speech” in order to “seduce the hearts of guileless ones” (Romans 16:18) without being too confrontational about it? The possibility of the existence of the types of people that the Bible calls “profitless talkers” and “deceivers of the mind”? (Titus 1:10) The possibility of being misled by “empty speeches”, philosophies and views that are “falsely called ‘knowledge’”? (1Ti 6:20) The possibility of the existence of a spirit person, with thousands of years of experience in manipulating and misleading humanity, and both spirit and human servants to help him accomplish his plan to take all humans “captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ”? (Col 2:8)

I think you were already familiar with where I was coming from and what warnings in the Bible concerning human philosophy/philosophies and the philosophers that popularize them I take more seriously than you for example, or many others here for that matter. Perhaps it's fun to think about the possibility that the above is all true or exists as described, and then consider how one/you would go about alerting people to such possibilities, assuming one cares about others being misled in that manner that is. Just to keep occupied with something that might be “wholesome/beneficial teaching” as claimed in the Bible, instead of things that might be “falsely called ‘knowledge’”, but is actually rather “empty”, i.e. devoid of anything profound enough to be of any benefit to you.

"Alan Watts - Is Your RELIGION The Right One ? ( Full Lecture )"

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: whereislogic
...
If you listen to Alan Watts video with these concepts in mind you may not see it as objectionable.

Note: If we label God as this or that our mind is limiting God as finite. Our mind is incapable of grasping or containing the infinite.

Note: Alan Watts seems to claim that: "There is no God and Jesus Christ is not his son." (seeing the thumbnail of the video just shared by Itisnowagain, assuming that quote is from Alan Watts)

If that is the case, the teachings of the Bible really aren't compatible with the teachings and claims of Alan Watts. That quote is much more profound than the previous quotation Itisnowagain used, only problem is, it's not true, it's false, i.e. a false story (coming back to the terminology at 2 Timothy 4:4). And it just happens to be what his target audience/market wants to hear, it tickles their ears as described at 2 Timothy 4:3 (including any arguments that accompany that claim). Am I being too blunt now?

Denial of God's existence or that Jesus Christ is his son (God's firstborn son to be exact) is nothing new. I doubt Alan Watts is bringing anything truly new or enlightening to the table regarding this subject.

Ecclesiastes 1:9,10:

9 What has been is what will be,

And what has been done will be done again;

There is nothing new under the sun.

10 Is there anything of which one may say, “Look at this—it is new”?

It already existed from long ago;

It already existed before our time.

But it sure tickles the ears of his target market/audience (those he's trying to appeal to by arguing that position). Psalm 14:1:

The foolish* [Or “senseless.”] one says in his heart:

“There is no Jehovah.”

(other translations have swapped out the personal name “Jehovah” with the generic noun “God”)

That's a pretty large market these days. Easy to exploit for your own advantage (usually financial). From which we get the saying: 'There's a fool/sucker born every minute'. I'm sure claiming and arguing that God does not exist generates quite a bit of traffic and helps with booksales with a particular large market. As demonstrated by the popularity of those arguing that position on youtube (not limited to atheists as in my example below; this includes many promoters of Eastern Philosophy and New Age Philosophy) compared to those arguing against them (in particular those mostly getting their information from the Bible concerning that subject, then evaluating it by means of the relevant empirical or physical evidence*).

For example, I kinda like some of the videos about that subject on the channel DeflatingAtheism, which has about 6000 subscribers, but those he's responding to in those videos, or debating, like TJ Kirk from the Amazing Atheist channel, have hundreds of thousands subscribers (the Amazing Atheist is almost up to a million). This pattern can be seen throughout youtube. It's clear that those arguing that there is no God (Jehovah God to be more specific) are appealing to, tickling the ears of, a larger audience/market than those arguing against them (maybe I picked 2 extremes for my example, but you see the same pattern amongst the most popular ones on either side of the debate).

Could this have something to do with it:


*: “Because what may be known about God is clearly evident among them, for God made it clear to them. For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made” (Romans 1:19,20):

Molecular Machinery of Life (playlist: Real science, knowledge of realities compared to unverified philosophies and stories)

Some of "the relevant empirical or physical evidence" I was talking about can be found in the playlist above.

I apologize whereislogic. I wasn't aware Alan Watts was into vefic teachings (not so much no God, moreso the minds concept of God.). Some of the most precious writings to me are those written by Christians that have reached spiritual enlightenment. I certainly don't want to be harming that possibility for you.

a reply to: whereislogic

Although Alan Watts does say a lot of dubious nonsense, you have to assess each thing he says on its own and see whether it is true or not.

His claim that we are in a sleeping state waiting to awaken very much resonates with my interpretation of the Good News (Gospel).

"And in that day you will not ask me anything. Timeless truth I speak to you: Everything that you shall ask my Father in my name, he shall give to you." John 16:23

" Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed." Romans 13:!1

There is coming a day for the children of God, when the second birth occurs and the new humanity (Son of Man) is born where nothing will be impossible and righteousness will reign. Nothing is impossible for God, and we should not conceive a limited perspective on His potential. Instead of disagreeing with a true statement mentioned by a non-Christian, it can be mentioned that they are in fact right, and Jesus is King of this impending and ever-present Kingdom.

a reply to: cooperton

Of course. Non sense to those who sleep. Plato was likely treated like crap for his views of reality too.

The allegory of the cave.


Or the Maori tribes who believe this place is Dream Time.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The God of this world is not "God".

Alan Watts - Jesus, His Religion



You do not exist - Alan Watts

Will people ever See it? - Alan Watts

Alan Watts is someone the elders don't even think of as a Buddhist

originally posted by: PillarOfFire
a reply to: Itisnowagain

The God of this world is not "God".

Satan the "prince of this world" only has reign temporarily. We persist in goodness knowing that there are higher realms than this world, and that is the virtue that leads us forward.

Also, what does phi pi / 3 mean in your signature? I do a lot of research with various geometries and am wondering what you're referring to with this.