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What do we fight for?

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posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 01:43 PM
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It is easy for us to wallow in anger as there are many things to be angry about. It is easy for us to envision the savagery that we feel should be visited upon those who have wronged us as they have, in fact, wronged us. It is easy to commit oneself to the convenience of the horror of warfare to settle grievances. It is easy to maraud and take from our enemies without a second's pause for remorse. What isn't easy is pulling back. What isn't easy is forgiveness. What isn't easy is settling our grievances without becoming monsters ourselves. Even in the horror of war, there is honor, heroism, goodness, and humanity. Even in war, there is mercy, compassion, understanding, and FORGIVENESS.

But what do we fight for?

Is it the bricks and stucco? Is it the monuments, flags, and anthems? Is it the ideals and principles under which the codification of liberty began 245 years ago?

How do you ever hope to salvage those things from the conflagration of war if you don't fight with the same integrity as the men who founded this nation?

You pine for the torture and destruction of your enemy, but he is right here next to you.
edit on 6 17 2021 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 01:52 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Do we fight FOR something or do we fight AGAINST something.

We (in my opinion) should fight AGAINST oppression, authoritarianism, encroaching government in whatever form it takes.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn

But what do we fight for?

Freedom.


Is it the bricks and stucco? Is it the monuments, flags, and anthems?

No, and no.


Is it the ideals and principles under which the codification of liberty began 245 years ago?

It's what I personally fight for, but...

Sadly, most people today don't know or understand what that is. Not even the slightest idea. They only see what's taught in schools and what is right in front of them. They have no perception of how they got what they have, and worse, they don't even care.


How do you ever hope to salvage those things from the conflagration of war if you don't fight with the same integrity as the men who founded this nation?

Me personally? Personally, I do fight with that same integrity, but if you don't understand it how can you fight for it?

As far as conflagrations are concerned, people are starting them on purpose for a bottle of cheap liquor and some Nike shoes. They are lost.


You pine for the torture and destruction of your enemy, but he is right here next to you.

He better not be!! Not if he's knows what's good for him!!

edit on 6/17/2021 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: projectvxn

Do we fight FOR something or do we fight AGAINST something.

We (in my opinion) should fight AGAINST oppression, authoritarianism, encroaching government in whatever form it takes.


I think that this is probably the crux of the problem. You've become so conditioned to the idea that society is an "Us Vs Them" situation that you instinctively fight anything that comes from the other side, even if it's something that might benefit you in the long run, or which might have no noticeable effect on you.

The same goes for "them", they instinctively push back against everything that you stand for simply because you're the one standing for it.

I notice that you frequently talk about "Authoritarianism". I'm an older member, I remember how things used to be back in the day. I've lived under authoritarianism in the form of Communism, and frankly I tend to think of your vision of "authoritarianism" as being extremely liberal.

Sometimes the government really does have your best interests at heart, and it really is trying to help you, and sometimes tat authoritarianism is something that would protect you from people who want to take advantage of you or who think that they're better than you.

People who resist for sake of it reminds me of a child that won't put a coat on when it's raining simply because somebody is asking them to. This applies to the left and to the right.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I think this applies more to those who'd say they are on 'our side'.

I don't know the motivations of others to believe as they do. Though I am not a perfect human being, I strive to ensure that I understand the context in which I've built my worldview.

I am sure that I don't want people to believe that violence is the proverbial 'easy button'. I am sure that I don't want people to believe that bloodletting is the solution to a society already sick with it, among other things, once thought of as sinful even among the secular.

We are becoming savages. It isn't just the "other side."


edit on 6 17 2021 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: AaarghZombies




Sometimes the government really does have your best interests at heart, and it really is trying to help you, and sometimes tat authoritarianism is something that would protect you from people who want to take advantage of you or who think that they're better than you.


I don't think any objective person can say that is true if informed, in context, with what we know today.

Fool me once, and all that.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Be careful with the "we's" there, my friend. I am not becoming a savage. If anything, I am more tolerant than I ever have been.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

If you spend your life fighting against everything you WILL lose sight of what is important.

The fight becomes the point, not the outcome of the fight. That's activist thinking and we all know that activists don't solve problems. It would hinder their paychecks.

Can't fall into the traps they make for us.
edit on 6 17 2021 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I mean society in general. Let's not take things personally.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:08 PM
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I doubt if people would fight for truth, most people accept lies because they fit their beliefs or knowledge they hold. But often they are being led astray by people who want prestige or profit. I guess there will not be many people on the side of truth once they find out they are parroting things that are not true and are profiting from lies that have been spread.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:09 PM
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Here's a good analogy...

I don't hate Rolex watches.

Personally, I like the watches just fine.

I just hate the people who wear them!


ETA - It's just a saying. Not to be taken literally.
edit on 6/17/2021 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Not taking it personally, personally. The point I'm making is, I think you're painting with a pretty wide brush when you use "we" like that. The people you are referring to are in the vast minority, not the majority. Sadly though, they're getting all the attention at the moment because of their actions.

And what are those actions intended to accomplish???

Answer: Make you, and everyone else, paint with a wide brush, just as you are doing now when you say "we" while waxing philosophical.




edit on 6/17/2021 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

People want to be comfortable.

The truth hardly ever comforts. It is a painful reality of existence, but one that is supposed to teach us to remain oriented toward what is true.

I believe there are right and wrong answers in life. I believe that those right and wrong answers are universal and objective. I believe they are provable by observation. An axiom of existence.

We live in a society that doesn't believe in objective truth anymore. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is a concept that has taken on a monstrous life well beyond its usefulness in an argument about moral relativism. People really believe they can make those determinations out of context and worse yet, they believe they can act in patently immoral ways so long as they believe they are justified by their subjective sociopolitical goals. If that's not a deranged #ing society, I don't know what is. More than 20 years of war and we are continuing to mainline death, destruction, nihilism, and moral relativism as the bedrock of what freedom means in 21st Century America.

We aren't polarized, we've become a death cult.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

See above post.


The truth is, this is happening to us and we aren't bothering to notice.
edit on 6 17 2021 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

I guess I'm confused now. What are you writing about? I thought you were writing about internal conflict within the US. Now it's looking like you're writing about the wars in Iraq and Asskrackistan.

Can you clarify?



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I've been observing a pattern of ever-increasing willingness to inflict suffering on others since the beginning of the Afghan and Iraq wars. The war propaganda has made people less willing to engage each other in dialog and more willing to fight in the streets.

There's been a total media saturation of dark, depressing, and violent themes. Now the society is being primed to hate each other. CRT, censorship, election theft, polarizing legislation. On top of all of this, we are now living under the real threat of nuclear war with Russia and China because of a hysterical political party entirely bent on power-grabbing and scaring the hell out of everyone with an unstable Commander in Chief and the heavy hand of government at his beck and call.

People are more willing now than ever to go toe-to-toe with each other.

So I was compelled to ask what we are really fighting for because I don't think there will be anything left if things continue the way they are.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: AaarghZombies


Sometimes the government really does have your best interests at heart, and it really is trying to help you


That's got to be one of the most naive things i think i've ever read on ATS...
edit on 17/6/2021 by dug88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

You pine for the torture and destruction of your enemy, but he is right here next to you.



''We have met the enemy and he is us'',,,,Pogo.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




We (in my opinion) should fight AGAINST oppression, authoritarianism, encroaching government in whatever form it takes.


And fight for the future that belongs to our very young.
The future should always give it's generation something better.
Never worse. If our grand children face tyranny it's our fault
if we don't die trying to stop it. At least they'll know they
we're loved if we do.



posted on Jun, 17 2021 @ 03:07 PM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Wow. Okay, you're mixing a whole lot of stuff together in your stew there!

I personally see very little connection between the conflict in Iraq and Asskrackistan vs. the internal political BS going on inside this country. I think you'd have a long day in court to prove that BLM hates people because of what's happening in Iraq. Or that 'wokeness' has anything to do with Afghanistan. Or vice versa. In any case, you will get absolutely zero disagreement from me if you were to say we should have been OUT of both of those places 10 years ago, and maybe even 15!

On a personal aside, I'm not completely convinced we should have ever gone to Iraq in the first place. What, to retrieve a bunch of weapons WE gave them to begin with?? The only other possible motivation was oil, but surely that couldn't be it because we didn't even get any to speak of. And don't even get me started on yellow cake. Now, Asskrackistan on the other hand, is a completely different story! We should have stood on the necks of that government with both feet from day #1, to the point it should be flying an American flag today as a US colony! I've said this from the very beginning. But we need only look to the three letter agencies for why that didn't happen. But I digress.

Now, the racial thing has been brewing for a lot longer than any of those issues. And what most people don't realize is, there are two sides to the racial thing (and I'm NOT talking about black and white here). There is the radical side, and there is the peaceful side. The radical side has always been out there, but every time they started to get some traction they got swatted down. That 'swatting down' is what's missing today, and it's exactly what those radicals have hoped for all along...for the people to not pose an obstacle to them. And, like terrorists, they will NOT stop until they get everything they want, even if they don't have any idea what that is (which they don't).

The Rona is different yet again. It isn't about any of those things, but rather globalism and power. It's about "control", and it's a litmus test to see how far governments can push the people, how much they will bend. It's about money.

Then again, I guess it's all about money, so maybe you're right.



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