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An idea on republic vs democracy, defund fbi, cia, but not police

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posted on May, 7 2021 @ 05:48 AM
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Democracy fails because it essentially becomes 'mob rule'. The founding fathers decided to break this up on region, creating the states, 'united states', working together with a system of checks and balances to maintain a de-centralized leadership pattern. I've noticed a really funny thing someone posted, 'defund the fbi'... I've been thinking on this.

What I am seeing, is there is a huge push for 'democracy' over 'republic'. As many of us know, a pure 'democracy' would be fundamentally flawed. If our election we're truly based on voting counts from coast to coast, the dense population centers toward the coasts would dominate the entire country. The people of new york city, voting to suit there needs, will vote differently than the people mid-country. Part of the reasoning behind the electoral college, it doesn't make sense to have these dense population centers determine the best interest sweepingly across a whole nation. What happens then, bad policy in center regions, forcing people to migrate outer, they vote in self- interest, forces more people. It negates expansion and creates a feedback-loop drawing people outward to the cities.The idea of a 'democratic republic' is to solve the discrepancies at the different levels of the common consensus-es 'up-the-chain', and regulate fairly for all eventually.

So now, with that in mind, we have these federal authorities like the FBI and the CIA. What occurred to me, why? When each state has it's own small, state-based democracy, they can know when things are interstate. I decided the idea was more like, okay, 1 person can operate across 52 states tracking a criminal moving from state to state subversively. This justifies a state-wide entity? There is no purpose of the FBI. The FBI is actually, imho, anti-thetical to the idea of a 'rebpublic'. I'd get behind an idea where like, each state is mandated to have a small inter-state investigation unit. That makes sense. But how do you measure the duality of federal/local and preserve the integrity of an investigation?

It seems like we're at the point, as a society, where this kind of 'integrity' based sharing is accomplished through tech. What we're now doing is generalizing a system, intentionally designed not to be generalized. Now, lets take that a level further, and generalize international intelligence to one 'agency', the CIA. It's inevitably doomed to corruption, and has a proven track record of serious power-grab, world-dominating criminal behavior. You can't just ask the head of the CIA to investigate the head of the CIA! this is why we have checks and balances.

I think it's personally reasonable to say "abolish the fbi" "abolish the CIA". What we have are corrupt organizations destroying society at behest of a government, which is meant to protect society. I think the idea of diverting some of this 'abolish the police' mentality up a level to 'abolish the fbi' would be a solid counter-argument to 'woke' critical race theory infiltrating cities and suburbs.
edit on 7-5-2021 by Attentionwandered because: typo



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 06:36 AM
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a reply to: Attentionwandered

So when a group decides to storm the Capitol building and enforce a political outcome, that's a republic?

But the people who vote in orderly elections, like they have had in the USA for hundreds of years, they are a mob.

Got it.



Also, the states existed as smaller local authorities, using all sorts of systems of governance, before the union of the states. They weren't the invention of the founding fathers who unified them.

And another thing, if breaking government into smaller units is so great, why not keep breaking them down even further, so they are even better? Should, for instance, each individual govern themselves, the ultimate division of political power, and how is that not just anarchy?

In fact, the founding fathers wrote a Constitution that has specific instruction on how the states are to vote (as states) and how the voting should be distributed, so that the then populations were fairly balanced against the various state sovereignties. That sounds like a somewhat democratic process was at the core of the founding fathers plans.

The USA has a fairly functional system of laws and rights, and a system to amend them over time. Too many people have such a poor understanding that they imagine you can break the basics of a country and somehow still be a nation. They usually think they are patriots, like those people who tried to force their will over the rest of the country by marching on the Capitol building while the vote showed that a significant portion of the citizens was clearly not into it.

edit on 7/5/2021 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 06:44 AM
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I see a few problems with this. You want to get rid of the FBI and CIA.

Instead of one FBI, you want to deal with 50 individual state agencies that would be more or less carrupt than the one we have now? Each state would have to duplicate the labs, the records, the personel, how would that work?

As far as the CIA goes, just getting rid of it would be nearly impossible as if you abolish it officialy, it would only go underground but still function as it does now. The CIA you see publically is not the real CIA. That is just a public relations operation. I am all for getting rid of the CIA but how?

When did the US pick up the two extra states as you mentioned 52?
edit on 5 7 2021 by beyondknowledge because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 06:58 AM
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a reply to: Attentionwandered


Democracy fails because it essentially becomes 'mob rule'.

True.


The founding fathers decided to break this up on region, creating the states, 'united states', working together with a system of checks and balances to maintain a de-centralized leadership pattern.

Not exactly. The Founding Fathers did not create the states. What we now know as the states were originally the Colonies. These colonies were each founded and established independently of one another. When these colonies independently decided to form a union -- i.e., the United States of America -- they did so as independent sovereign states uniting for specific purposes, while retaining their independence and sovereignty. Thus, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and other founding documents were designed and written to empower and enable the individual independent states to continue governing their (now) states in accordance with the wants and needs of their own people. The Constitution itself is written and intended to enumerate the very limited powers and authority of the federal government -- NOT the states or the people of the states, hence the 9th and 10th Amendments.

One of the virtues of the Constitution (and the union itself) is that every state was committed to retaining their rights and authorities to govern themselves, and so each state was invested in limiting the powers and authorities of the feds over the states, as well as the ability of other states on their states.

The FBI was created to investigate crime that occurred across state lines, in multiple states, since one state does not have the power or authority to investigate crimes in another state. The CIA was intended to deal with foreign crimes and criminals that affect the USA as a whole, as the Federal government has the power and authority to protect and defend our borders, make war, etc.

Strictly speaking, the only Constitutionally empowered law enforcement agent is the duly elected County Sheriff who serves and answers directly to the people who elect him/her. Sheriffs do not answer to the Feds, to the State, to anyone... EXCEPT the voters. Sheriffs are the ONLY elected law enforcement officials. Sheriffs are the ONLY law enforcement officials who can be removed by the will of the people. All others are appointed by government critters and serve the will of those who appoint them. NOT the people they are presumed to serve.

It's not a coincidence that the most corrupt police departments are in the most corrupt cities. I am not anti-police, but I will take a Constitutionally empowered and duly elected Sheriff over city empowered and appointed police any day.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 07:22 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Attentionwandered

So when a group decides to storm the Capitol building and enforce a political outcome, that's a republic?

But the people who vote in orderly elections, like they have had in the USA for hundreds of years, they are a mob.

Got it.



Also, the states existed as smaller local authorities, using all sorts of systems of governance, before the union of the states. They weren't the invention of the founding fathers who unified them.

And another thing, if breaking government into smaller units is so great, why not keep breaking them down even further, so they are even better? Should, for instance, each individual govern themselves, the ultimate division of political power, and how is that not just anarchy?

In fact, the founding fathers wrote a Constitution that has specific instruction on how the states are to vote (as states) and how the voting should be distributed, so that the then populations were fairly balanced against the various state sovereignties. That sounds like a somewhat democratic process was at the core of the founding fathers plans.

The USA has a fairly functional system of laws and rights, and a system to amend them over time. Too many people have such a poor understanding that they imagine you can break the basics of a country and somehow still be a nation. They usually think they are patriots, like those people who tried to force their will over the rest of the country by marching on the Capitol building while the vote showed that a significant portion of the citizens was clearly not into it.


Yes smaller government is way better . The feds care of no one . Your ignorance is very old . Why do you post here ? What’s the point . You’re changing no ones mine ? Why are you for globalism ?



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 07:33 AM
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Kinda like burning and looting our cities because of no good reason?? areply to: chr0naut



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: Thenail

He has been totally brain wiped. Any former knowledge was replaced with garbage.
Everyone else knows this except him.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 07:57 AM
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a reply to: Thenail

He's not even from the US, just obsessed with turning it into whatever sh*t country he is from.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: chr0naut




So when a group decides to storm the Capitol building and enforce a political outcome, that's a republic?


Do you actually think that's what happened?
Or are you just being a insincere liar?
Try watching the video on this site.
Then you might want to come back and edit your propaganda.

fake insurrection



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: Attentionwandered

Some years ago, The FBI had intentions of transforming their operations away from law enforcement and concentrate their efforts into strictly terrorist investigations here in the US but this proposal caused so much uproar that the FBI backed off of this proposition and continued on with national interstate law enforcement.

Although I agree that, in my opinion, the FBI is not constitutionally authorized, they still have a roll to play in the protection of the nation.


www.hbs.edu...

TRANSFORMING THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: OUTCOME AND
PROCESS FRAMING IN THE CONTEXT OF A STRATEGIC CHANGE INITIATIVE
ABSTRACT
This twelve-year qualitative study examines how Director Robert Mueller and his senior
team profoundly transformed the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) after the
9/11 terrorist attacks. Drawing on 138 interviews within the FBI and Mueller’s testimonies to
Congress, we trace how the FBI shifted from being a law enforcement agency, focused on
solving crimes after they occurred, to being an intelligence agency, centered on preventing
attacks before they occurred.

The CIA is a different mater entirely. That agency is out of control and wrecking havoc across the globe. Even though, this agency can and is providing vital information from around the globe to protect our nation. But even they hav gone too far in the interference of other nations internal affairs. The CIA's efforts in overthrowing foreign governments needs to stop.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)


John Kennedy wanted to grind the CIA into dust but they got to him first.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)



edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)


The 2 agencies that need grinding into dust are the the US Department of Education and the National Teachers Union.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut



So when a group decides to storm the Capitol building and enforce a political outcome, that's a republic?


It is when that governing body no longer represents the will of the people and our Constitution is shredded like a piece of toilet paper by the 2 bodies. Now 3 branches of government have betrayed us and our Constitution.



Should, for instance, each individual govern themselves


As a mater of fact, YES.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)


The United States were a confederation of states first, before the federal government ever existed. The confederation created the federal government for a specific purpose, Mutual protection, Not to usurp the authority of the states entirely, of which has now happened.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 01:30 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Five stars and flags.

All others beyond the county sheriffs are corporate enforcers.
edit on 7-5-2021 by CharlesT because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: CharlesT

"Enforcers" -- yes! That's actually what they are.

They are not our servants, serving and protecting our best interests.

Even when it seems to, it's a bug... not a feature.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 02:05 PM
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A Republic is ruled by a "law"/"code"/"statute" that everyone must abide by. If they like it, or not.

That's why (it is said), Ben Franklin when asked said? "A Republic. If you can keep it".

A Republic can be a good or bad form of government. An example of a bad "Republic" would be? Any nation that calls themselves a, "The People's Socialist Republic".

A Republic is nothing more than a nation that has adherence to "a law". Good law or bad, it really doesn't matter. It still can call itself a Republic.

Karl Marx loved the idea of "Democracy" (that's why the word is pushed so hard, by "Idealistic thinkers". He thought it was the "ideal form of government to install "socialism" (mob rule".
Which was his utopian idealistic goal.
But not because he "loved it" in a good way. He understood the weakness of human nature and bet nobody would challenge his idiotic ideas. Because if "idealists" control the "education of the masses" and make it "against the law" to not be "educated/indoctrinated". It's still a Republic, right?

But it doesn't really matter the form of "government" or what "titles" that "government people" give themselves. A "Republic", is just a word.

Of all history of "Republics". The U.S.A. is a unique Republic, in that the real "law" was designed to put limits on the "authority" of government. Very few things by the C.O.T.U.S (law) are to be, "Democratic". That was by design.
But "public/socialist education" doesn't teach individual "freedom" anymore.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: WUNK22
Kinda like burning and looting our cities because of no good reason?? areply to: chr0naut


Exactly.

More instances of Americans 'shooting themselves in the foot' (as a nation) and thinking they are doing the right thing.



posted on May, 7 2021 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: chr0naut
Better than sucking up to the chinese, you know like the government of New Zealand.





posted on May, 7 2021 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: chr0naut



So when a group decides to storm the Capitol building and enforce a political outcome, that's a republic?


It is when that governing body no longer represents the will of the people and our Constitution is shredded like a piece of toilet paper by the 2 bodies. Now 3 branches of government have betrayed us and our Constitution.



Should, for instance, each individual govern themselves


As a mater of fact, YES.

The United States were a confederation of states first, before the federal government ever existed. The confederation created the federal government for a specific purpose, Mutual protection, Not to usurp the authority of the states entirely, of which has now happened.


The process the Capitol Building protestors were protesting against, was the Constitutional process. The means they were using to protest against it, was unconstitutional.

Who was 'shredding' the Constitution?




posted on May, 7 2021 @ 11:56 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: chr0naut
Better than sucking up to the chinese, you know like the government of New Zealand.




Or like that Donald Trump guy did...
... What a quisling.





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