Another Brawl at an American Airport

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

When you hear the word “gorilla”, you think “black people”.

I don’t

You must be a leftist

Nothing about a man physically abusing women mentioned in this thread... more focusing on the color of their skin and saying that's not racist. Hmmmm.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Good for you and your innocence. But let me ask you this. What do you think that ''gorilla in the room'' was in reference to. The size of the man? The poster replied to raised the issue of color, not me. He set the context for his comment, not me.
so what do you think he was referencing in that comment if not race........Come on you can do it.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

Gorilla/elephant. Interchangeable words in a very common saying. I’ve heard both just as much as one another.

He mentioned that he didn’t want to sound racist by pointing out the FACT that the vast majority of these type of incident seem to involve black people (which is not racism at all, facts can not be racist. Nor can statistics)

The word “gorilla” was in no way related to any person involved

To assume ‘gorilla’ means ‘black person’ is indicative of internal racism

I don’t equate ‘gorilla’ with ‘black’

Only racists do

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You know what, dude?

I've heard that phrase ever since I can remember and I never even remotely thought about the word "gorilla" in that phrase having a racial connotation...until YOU brought it up! So, thanks for adding yet another everyday word to the "woke" vocabulary! To me, a 'gorilla' always evoked a large, strong and very obvious object inside of a room, something no one could help but NOT notice, and it had exactly ZERO racial implications...until YOU brought it up! Even now, as I sit here, I don't make the connection between a 'gorilla' and/or an 'ape', or even a monkey, as reflecting any particular skin color. Some apes are orange, some are blonde some are silver, some are brown, some are black, some are striped.

Consequently, you can go right on ahead with your woke-self and call me a racist, but I'm going to continue to use the phrase..."800 lb. gorilla in the room", regardless of whether YOU think it's racist or not!

a reply to: panoz77


Great, so now we are slandering black peeps AND fat peeps.....

originally posted by: lakenheath24
Great, so now we are slandering black peeps AND fat peeps.....

What about the 800lb girlrilla in the room?

a reply to: lakenheath24

Yeah, so now we have to say...The gravitationally challenged large trans-species primatus-pachadermus (definitely not to be confused with any racial classification of humans) inside the space defined by boundaries (not walls) constructed of opaque, colorless, materials with structural rigidity, but not in the absolute sense, thus flexible enough to allow for interpretation by spatially challenged idiots bent on making life difficult on just about everyone for no apparent reason other than their own personal satisfaction"...!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Hahaha

I have always found that those who harp on about this or that is racist are the biggest racists themselves

On a side note, my step daughter who is a gifted young lady (maths genius) got exasperated at school a few months ago at the kids in her class acting up and being disruptive. She said "I'm in a class of monkeys!" To which was reference to their intelligence but was called a racist for saying that. I had interesting conversations with her teachers after lol

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: network dude

To have lived in the USA for as long as I have, and I can suppose as long as you have as well, the general knowledge that referencing black people to any of simian ancestry cannot have escaped our notice. This does not mean that either of us is racist for knowing this fact.

Now you can play the game that by my noticing the fact that using the cliche ''gorilla in the room'' rather than the more commonly used term ''elephant in the room'' makes me a racist but that is simpleton logic. It does not.

Again, I did not call you racist, I merely pointed out that your original claim of not wanting to sound racist was a failure.
Simple.

Terry, I'm sure you have already made up your mind, but when I wrote that, I wasn't thinking of how racist it would sound, I was using the common reference of the obvious, I've used it before, and likely will again. And I won't ever use it to disparage a group of people based on the amount of melanin in their skin. I don't think you are overtly racist, but you may want to look inward and see of you can understand why YOU equate a gorilla to black people. And don't project your deeply suppressed racist thoughts on to others.

a reply to: network dude

It's like when people get pissy about the phrase 'calling a spade a spade'.

It's a bit older than you think....

(Not you, I think you may be older)

originally posted by: kdyam
I first saw this and thought "wow look at Obama sitting between two black guys getting ready to play some drums" then i looked closer and realized that the guy in the middle was just someone in an ape costume, and Obama doesnt look like an ape he looks like a monkey so i guess i just saw what i wanted to see at first. Im so happy that Obama is only half black because now i only feel like a half racist, the other two guys i would be pissed by the ad trying to peg black folks as drum beaters.

For some reason I can't link to the thread for this quote, there are numerous threads about things referring to the Obamas as monkeys, ape, etc
but this kind of post appears here in ATS more than once.

To claim to be shocked that someone would infer that referring to a black individual as a gorilla, monkey, ape etc would be considered racist is a little hard to believe if you have lived here in the U.S. and are at least old enough to read.

To also claim that people who point it out are then in fact the actual racists is even more ridiculous. Gotta love ATS.

a reply to: frogs453

I think the point is that we have to take the person who used the phrase at face value that it wasn't employed as a double entendre. The person you quoted above is an obvious racist.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

They may not be, but certainly poor judgement.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Gorilla/elephant. Interchangeable words in a very common saying. I’ve heard both just as much as one another.

Thank you for recognizing the linguistic nature of this discussion. Yes indeed ''gorilla'' and ''elephant'' have been becoming interchangeable in modern use in this idiom. In essence either is now used to suggest the obvious in any situation that is being avoided. Just as you point out.

Yet here in lies the rub. We all come from different places in this country. Different places and different families and schooling. Where one life experience may have heard ''gorilla'' in the room as the predominate idiom, others like myself have grown up hearing ''elephant'' more prominently.

So in this case'' elephant'' was not used and ''gorilla'' was. That's fine and no reason to call the user of that word racist because either gorilla or elephant can be used in the idiom to express the obvious.

That is to express the obvious WITHOUT defining the obvious.
Yet that is exactly what was done by that poster, defining the obvious as racial.

He mentioned that he didn’t want to sound racist by pointing out the FACT that the vast majority of these type of incident seem to involve black people (which is not racism at all, facts can not be racist. Nor can statistics)

Certainly. The FACT here is that those statistics SEEM to involve black people. I've seen enough of those videos to know that by those videos, this is how it seems. But even this statistic is subject to scrutiny. One video that followed that skirmish was of predominately Latino folk and the one after that Asian. One thing that could be true of all of these folk is that they all may be on the bottom side of the economic scale. So yes again the observation need not be racial but rather an economic observation. However that poster did define his observation as potentially racial.."I don't want to sound racist''.

The word “gorilla” was in no way related to any person involved

To assume ‘gorilla’ means ‘black person’ is indicative of internal racism

I don’t equate ‘gorilla’ with ‘black’

Only racists do

You defend the words of that poster with a certainty. I'm fine with that, that the poster was not referring to any person or persons involved specifically by referencing ''gorilla'' rather than ''elephant''. However, the ''attempt'' to not sound racist could have better been made by use of the word ''elephant'' or indeed coming right out and stating his observations instead of using an idiom with such a history of racial slurs.

''To assume 'gorilla'' means ''black person'' might be indicative of internal racism, yes. However there was no stated assumption of racism here on my part. Merely the comment that he failed in his attempt to not SOUND racist.

And good on ya that you do not equate ''gorilla'' with 'black'. And as true as this is and as true as it likely is with that poster, the use of that word will be treated by racists with a snicker and a knowing grin.

But saying that only racists equate ''gorilla with '' black' is completely wrong. Yes, racists do but those who recognize the vocabulary and idiomatic phrasing of racists also know how they speak to one another without being racist themselves.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You know what, dude?

I've heard that phrase ever since I can remember and I never even remotely thought about the word "gorilla" in that phrase having a racial connotation...until YOU brought it up! So, thanks for adding yet another everyday word to the "woke" vocabulary! To me, a 'gorilla' always evoked a large, strong and very obvious object inside of a room, something no one could help but NOT notice, and it had exactly ZERO racial implications...until YOU brought it up! Even now, as I sit here, I don't make the connection between a 'gorilla' and/or an 'ape', or even a monkey, as reflecting any particular skin color. Some apes are orange, some are blonde some are silver, some are brown, some are black, some are striped.

Consequently, you can go right on ahead with your woke-self and call me a racist, but I'm going to continue to use the phrase..."800 lb. gorilla in the room", regardless of whether YOU think it's racist or not!

From reading your post now for ages I have come to respect your wide swath of experiences on this planet. I have also come to respect the niche of life you have carved out for yourself, upstanding as it is.

So please let me make this straight with you. I did not say that statement was racist. What I said was that it failed to not ''sound'' racist. To you it did not and I am happy it didn't yet to not notice that ''gorilla'' and other simian words have traditionally used to equate to black people is a profound lack of awareness, especially from a person with as wide a scope of life experiences as yourself.

Use gorilla in that idiom all you like and I will use elephant all I like, it's a matter of which one was in common usage where ever, whenever and with who ever we were raised. Yet use of gorilla can also be used as a slur on people of color while at the same time use of the word elephant can be used as a slur for an overly large person. So there we have it. Idioms.

Again. I did not think it racist. It either could be or could not be. But it was a failure to not ''sound'' racist.

a reply to: network dude

Terry, I'm sure you have already made up your mind, but when I wrote that, I wasn't thinking of how racist it would sound, I was using the common reference of the obvious, I've used it before, and likely will again. And I won't ever use it to disparage a group of people based on the amount of melanin in their skin. I don't think you are overtly racist, but you may want to look inward and see of you can understand why YOU equate a gorilla to black people. And don't project your deeply suppressed racist thoughts on to others.

Thank you Dr. Dude for the use of your couch this afternoon.

Did I call your statement racist? No I did not. Did I call you racist for making it? No I did not. Did I even assume you were racist for that comment? No I did not. I am perfectly aware that ''gorilla'' ''elephant'' and even ''Godzilla'' can be used interchangeably in that idiom. And I know that which ever word we use in that idiomatic context can depend primarily upon which one we were subjected to as we were brought up. Simple.

I can tell you why I can equate the use of the term ''gorilla'' with black people. Ready? Here it comes and it is really quite simple. Because I have heard white supremacists, racists and bigots use those simian words in relation to black people all my life. I can do that without encompassing and sharing in those racial ''jokes'', but that does not mean I need to ignore them either. And again I do not believe that that was your intent, only that in your attempt to ''not sound racist'' you did not manage to reach the bar you set for yourself.

My deeply suppressed racist thoughts? Projecting them on others? Dude, I did not project anything. I simply pointed out your semantical failure

a reply to: frogs453

To claim to be shocked that someone would infer that referring to a black individual as a gorilla, monkey, ape etc would be considered racist is a little hard to believe if you have lived here in the U.S. and are at least old enough to read.

To also claim that people who point it out are then in fact the actual racists is even more ridiculous. Gotta love ATS.

THis is the experience I am having in this thread. By simply pointing out that the term ''gorilla'' can be considered a racial slur has brought me numerous accusations of racism in myself. And interesting experience I must say and one that deserves some thought.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I hear that. Ehh..ATS has been "up is down and down is up" of late. Sometimes I truly wonder why I bother.

a reply to: frogs453

I take this place as a learning experience as I am sure others do as well. It's not just the up is down stuff but the almost perfect mirroring of conceptual thoughts. One thing that I consider important for me that I have gleaned from this place is
what I consider to be a major fallacy at the core of liberal thought. That is to inform people so that when informed, all people will come to the same conclusions as to necessary actions to resolve our varying situations. This is not true at all. What has become clear to me is that much of the information available to us can be and is construed in entirely opposite directions. That was poorly put but points in the general direction of my thinking.