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a serious question for the left side

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posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:08 AM
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I know we don't agree. I can accept that. But we are all human, we all live on this planet, and we all will continue to be together on this planet. Knowing that, is the current path one that you agree with? There are many aspects of this that seem way out there, but to limit the scope, we can just talk about immigration. We currently have a horrible situation at the US/Mexico border.

In the first minutes of the Harris/Biden administration, all the steps the previous administration made to control the southern border were scrapped. The border was essentially opened up and we now have record number of illegal immigrants illegally entering the country. The mechanisms that caused this are easily seen and to my knowledge, not in dispute. Is this acceptable and what you wanted? Open borders and no plan or path to try to maintain any form of control on who enters or why?

Those of us on the right have been fairly consistent with regard to immigration. LEGAL immigration is a good thing. It's what made this nation what it is. People from all over the world come here, bring their customs, their knowledge, and blend it with everyone else to make a unique nation unlike any other. We seem to be against the "illegal" entry, due to having laws in place to prevent such things. Perhaps someone can explain why it's OK to ignore current laws for some things rather than change those laws to accommodate a changing environment.

This isn't meant to be a "gotcha" thread or a trick to get you to give the wrong answer. I am genuinely curious as to if this is Kosher with all of you left leaners here.

I personally am against open borders, I would love to see a controlled border where entry was done the legal way, much as it is in any other nation on the planet Earth. I am not anti-immigration, I am pro LEGAL immigration for the reasons mentioned above. I also can't help but feel sorry for all those who spent the time and effort to come here the correct way, those who learned the important things needed to become a citizen and went that route. They must be feeling cheated by seeing that instead of doing it the right way, they could have just waited and crossed in the dead of night, without all that extra work.

I look forward to learning why you think the way you do.
edit on 24-4-2021 by network dude because: debate the content, not the spelling or punctuation, nobody likes that guy.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:14 AM
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Well, as an avid lefty, I am an avowed NIMBY. I believe that America sucks, except where I live. I want to bring in ALL immigrants from everywhere...as long as I don't see any of them near me because they are, well, icky.

I want the US to pay for everything, except of course for me because, well, its your fault, not mine that the world is a horrible place to be. Except my community of course.

Signed.
A. Lefty.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Your approach is far to amicable.

Oh and any one who doesn't understand that having many
different races living in a country. Migrating from all
over the globe. Is going to have some racism going on?
Doesn't really care about racism.

edit on 24-4-2021 by Randyvine because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:21 AM
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The way I see it, someone is benefitting from Illegal Immigration; otherwise, it wouldn't be an issue.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: lostbook

It’s way easier for anyone going through your southern border illegally than it is for anyone from the north of you to come across for just a visit or a shopping trip.

I know so many Canadians that don’t even try to cross to visit or shop anymore because its not worth the hassle.

For the last couple of decades, your southern border is the only one easy to cross.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: snowspirit

Yes, and when we say that's not right, we get called racist.

The only thing I can think of is that the cartels own DC.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:53 AM
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The OP pretty much summed it up perfectly. Please, those on the left explain to us how illegal immigration is a good thing. We all want and welcome LEGAL immigration.

Perhaps the reason is you don't want your drug supply cut off? Or maybe you are in favor of bringing more COVID+ people into the country to continue the shutdowns? Or maybe you are in favor of the abuse of minority children, you know like the child rapes that occur? Or maybe you think that kids wrapped up in foil emergency blankets in cages is like a zoo, fun to watch? Or maybe you hope some Syrians on the terrorist watch list might be able to sneak through and bless us with another 9/11? Or maybe you have stock in the Mexican cartels and want to see your investment grow?

Just curious.
edit on 24-4-2021 by panoz77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I am not a Lefty, as you surely already know but I have a story about immigration, nothing special just a little experience I had a few years ago.

There is a Arabic owned gas station near me that I go to a few times a week and one day the guy behind the counter was listening to an audio tape that I could hear and it appeared to be talking about different parts of US government.

So I left and next time I went in there, the tape was playing again and again the next time after that...same guy behind the counter BTW.

Finally I asked him about it and he said he was studying for his US citizenship test and I told him that’s great, I hope you pass it.

Maybe a month or so later, I went in and this guy was all smiles and really talking up a storm with customers and when he saw me he says...”I passed!! I finally did it!!”

I told him congratulations and welcome!....you could tell that this guy was so proud of what he did and it actually brought a tear to my eye.

I don’t know, maybe a goofy story but it just made me feel good that this guy was so proud about being a citizen of this country.
edit on 24-4-2021 by RazorV66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: network dude

The US border with Mexico is not open; it is closed till 21 May. Even when it is 'open', the distinction between legal and illegal immigration continues to apply.

Your opening premise is invalid.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: network dude

The US border with Mexico is not open; it is closed till 21 May. Even when it is 'open', the distinction between legal and illegal immigration continues to apply.

Your opening premise is invalid.


Is that why we have so many kids in cages backlogging at the southern border? Why surely if the border was closed so that no one could just illegally walk over the border, that wouldn't be a problem now would it?

Asking for a friend.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: RazorV66

I met my wife online about 10 years ago. we decided to get married 8 years ago, applied for the finance visa, waited 2 years, and she was allowed in. Got her Green Card, meaning she was a permanent resident, and 2 years ago she got her Citizenship. All told we spent around 5k on paperwork, etc. When she came she had a bachelor in business, had been an executive manager, and she spent 8 years working junk jobs till she finally got a good one. It takes time, money, and resources to come to the country legally. If your missing one, then you have to increase the other 2. That said, most people wanting to come here are missing 2 of the other usually, Money and resources. As a result, the only thing they can do is wait. Immigration is based on the country that a person comes from and the amount of people wanting to come in from that country, so say a country like France vs Mexico. France typically has less people wanting to come, and therefore the wait is lower. Mexico on the other hand has a 10 year wait to come legally, and these people are on our border. Would you honestly wait 10 years for your dream to come true, when for 2k, you can cross illegally, get fake papers, and have a job working inside of a month? Same applies for all of central america. The people with resources and money can jump the line, but most of those coming from those nations have neither, so they jump the line by coming illegally. I can see why they do it. Doesn't mean i agree, but I certainly understand. I used to work with a bunch of illegals from Guatemala, great guys, 10 of them living in one apartment all working, savings. One guy saved enough that he went back to Guatemala, bought a farm, a house, and was living great. That's what most do, come, work hard, save, send money home then go home to retire. Not saying its right, but I understand why they do it.

The best way to fix immigration is to fix the reasons why people from central america want to come to the USA. Poverty, Crime, Corruption are the 3 main reasons. The question is how do we fix that? We do this by focusing on improving there lives. Send jobs there, develop economy, education, and real governess with justice and equality. Unfortunately the USA has way too many issues from my perspective to do this right now, therefore what is the resolution? That's the million dollar question, how can the right and left come together to fix the issue? How do we do this when we are have competing agendas, that prevent this such as Global Warming, which looks to prevent the development of industry, or free trade which encourages trade from established trade partners, or outsourcing, offshoring, and even war, which pushes the agenda a different way. The issue with illegal immigration from my perspective is that the USA lacks focus on what we want to do.

Put simply, you can please all the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but you cant please all the people all the time. Second, we change our agenda every year or 2 without consequence and throw money away in the process. We need long term planning and strategy, and we don't have that because everything changes so often at the whims of politicians and the media. Just my opinion.

Camain



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: lostbook
The way I see it, someone is benefitting from Illegal Immigration; otherwise, it wouldn't be an issue.


The government body as a whole is benefiting. They will raise taxes to compensate for excess expenses needed to care for existing and new 'departments' to 'assist' immigrants. We all know, these organizations and departments never go away and are forever a suckling off the governments teat of unending funding (aka - our tax dollars) and even if the departments were somehow absolved, the government would continue to absorb the tax income and redistribute it for.....some thing.

For what it's worth, I think things might even get worse. I had a dream last night that Biden had become incapacitated completely (but not dead - at least not immediately) and Kamala Harris was the POTUS.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: camain

Why is it our country's obligation to fix *their* country?

By becoming such a drain on our own nation, they are slowly ruining it and it will eventually be as bad as what they fled. Look at what's happening to parts of the West Coast now for an example. The illegals are being exploited politically and economically to ruin honest citizens.

If they want better lives in their own nations, then they need to stay home and work to fix those places.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:29 AM
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a reply to: network dude

The Border Isn’t Open


Last week, 51 House Republicans sent a letter to President Biden asserting that his new immigration policies amount to “open borders.” The charge is laughably absurd. Except for a couple of months last year, Biden is maintaining the most closed border policy in the history of the United States. Whether you’re a documented or undocumented immigrant, it’s nearly impossible to come to America.


I used the CATO institute so you guys can’t attack the source as being left wing.

This idea that the border is wide open and people are streaming through isn’t true in the least. It’s something right wing politicians and media pundits have been saying, and you just unquestionably believe it, like most things you’re told by them.

The reality is that hardly anything has changed from when Donald Trump was President. Joe Biden is just continuing Trumps disastrous policies. And without a hint of irony you guys are blaming it all on Democrats. At what point do you actually think about what you’re being told instead of just believing whatever Republican politicians say?



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:31 AM
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I know, I'm not a lefty.

But, I have an additional related question for liberals/progressives/Democrats.


If as liberals/progressives/Democrats regularly say and teach the children in schools:

1.The US is the #1 most racist nation on the planet

2.The US is the #1 most sexist nation on the planet

3.The US was born out of the evils of slavery

4.The Constitution is a document of negative liberties that prevents the government from "doing good"

5.The US and it's people are inherently and systemically racist and sexist

6.All the white people living in the US are born systemically racist and responsible for most of the ills in the entire world

Why would any person of color want to cross the border into such an evil, corrupt, and systemically and inherently racist country where the racial majority are born racists and hateful?

Why would any person at all want to cross the border into
the #1 most racist, sexist, evil, murderous with guns nation
founded in slavery? A very common mantra of liberals/progressives/Dems.

Don't tell me the US has it better than where they came from
if you believe the US is systemically and inherently racist, sexist, evil, obsessed with guns and murderous, with police that are out to kill as many people of color as they can get away with. Which I hear regularly from liberals/progressives/Democrats about the US.

Find a better reason for them to leave a country where they
don't experience as much racism to come to a nation where
the liberals/progressives/Democrats guarantee
they will experience systemic oppression and racism.




edit on 4/24/21 by The2Billies because: addition



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:35 AM
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In the first minutes of the Harris/Biden administration, all the steps the previous administration made to control the southern border were scrapped. The border was essentially opened up and we now have record number of illegal immigrants illegally entering the country.


Biden named Harris the 'border czar' when, early March? She will not go to the southern border.
She has been asked by the governors of Texas and Arizona to come down there. The Arizona attorney general asked Harris to come there several times. She won't even respond.
Seriously, this administration is an abomination. Three days ago, the governor of AZ delared an emergency.
Just yesterday, (that's right, yesterday!) Jen Psaki said the border situation isn't a "crisis".

They can't blame this on Trump!





posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:40 AM
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a reply to: network dude

When I worked at a rolling stock rail car manufacturer, every crew I had had at least one or two 'migrant' workers, from the states. Most over worked their visa and were forced to be laid off. Not sure what they did afterwards, but lots of work to be done under the table in that city.

I don't think most 'lefties' are for illegal immigration or migration. It's more to the point they notice the reasons WHY people go to such measures and sympathize for them in that regard.



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:48 AM
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originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

When I worked at a rolling stock rail car manufacturer, every crew I had had at least one or two 'migrant' workers, from the states. Most over worked their visa and were forced to be laid off. Not sure what they did afterwards, but lots of work to be done under the table in that city.

I don't think most 'lefties' are for illegal immigration or migration. It's more to the point they notice the reasons WHY people go to such measures and sympathize for them in that regard.


☝️



posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: The2Billies
I know, I'm not a lefty.

But, I have an additional related question for liberals/progressives/Democrats.


If as liberals/progressives/Democrats regularly say and teach the children in schools:

1.The US is the #1 most racist nation on the planet

2.The US is the #1 most sexist nation on the planet

3.The US was born out of the evils of slavery

4.The Constitution is a document of negative liberties that prevents the government from "doing good"

5.The US and it's people are inherently and systemically racist and sexist

6.All the white people living in the US are born systemically racist and responsible for most of the ills in the entire world

Why would any person of color want to cross the border into such an evil, corrupt, and systemically and inherently racist country where the racial majority are born racists and hateful?

Why would any person at all want to cross the border into
the #1 most racist, sexist, evil, murderous with guns nation
founded in slavery? A very common mantra of liberals/progressives/Dems.

Don't tell me the US has it better than where they came from
if you believe the US is systemically and inherently racist, sexist, evil, obsessed with guns and murderous, with police that are out to kill as many people of color as they can get away with. Which I hear regularly from liberals/progressives/Democrats about the US.

Find a better reason for them to leave a country where they
don't experience as much racism to come to a nation where
the liberals/progressives/Democrats guarantee
they will experience systemic oppression and racism.





If you don’t copy and paste your replies from somewhere else you won’t have these weird formatting problems.

Just a heads up.




posted on Apr, 24 2021 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: The2Billies
I know, I'm not a lefty.

But, I have an additional related question for liberals/progressives/Democrats.


If as liberals/progressives/Democrats regularly say and teach the children in schools:

1.The US is the #1 most racist nation on the planet

2.The US is the #1 most sexist nation on the planet

3.The US was born out of the evils of slavery

4.The Constitution is a document of negative liberties that prevents the government from "doing good"

5.The US and it's people are inherently and systemically racist and sexist

6.All the white people living in the US are born systemically racist and responsible for most of the ills in the entire world

Why would any person of color want to cross the border into such an evil, corrupt, and systemically and inherently racist country where the racial majority are born racists and hateful?

Why would any person at all want to cross the border into
the #1 most racist, sexist, evil, murderous with guns nation
founded in slavery? A very common mantra of liberals/progressives/Dems.

Don't tell me the US has it better than where they came from
if you believe the US is systemically and inherently racist, sexist, evil, obsessed with guns and murderous, with police that are out to kill as many people of color as they can get away with. Which I hear regularly from liberals/progressives/Democrats about the US.

Find a better reason for them to leave a country where they
don't experience as much racism to come to a nation where
the liberals/progressives/Democrats guarantee
they will experience systemic oppression and racism.





If you don’t copy and paste your replies from somewhere else you won’t have these weird formatting problems.

Just a heads up.



I didn't copy and paste. All me, but thanks for the thought that it was so superb I must have copy and pasted it!

The "weird" formatting is to make clear and easy to read points.

Want to answer my question rather than make fun of formatting?

Now, I'll "copy and paste" from my original post, so you don't have to look at my weird formatting to reply on topic:

Why would any person of color want to cross the border into such an evil, corrupt, and systemically and inherently racist country where the racial majority are born racists and hateful?

Why would any person at all want to cross the border into
the #1 most racist, sexist, evil, murderous with guns nation
founded in slavery?







 
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