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Indonesian sub with 53 on board missing

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posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 06:25 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: schuyler

And Torpedoes average a speed of 40 knots.

Why are we discussing vessel speeds?


Have you been following the thread at all?


Yes. Phage rumbled some anecdote about submariners.

Then you started rambling about carrier speeds.

How is it relevant to a missing submarine?


Are you the thread police or something? Good Lord, fella, every conversation is not going to go the way you specify. Do I have to explain it to you? Phage mentioned the submariners he talked to said a boomer could go 20 knots. That, of course, is a severe underestimate so I replied that carrier "could go 35 knots," with the clear implication that it could go faster. That would have been the end of it, but you had to complain. So here we are. Either derive something useful from this conversation or not. I really don't care.


Okay, I'm sorry.
edit on 2142021 by Wide-Eyes because: I hate my tablet



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 06:39 PM
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My expertise in submarines stops at Life Aquatic, but the oil slick doesn't sound good.
I'd assume the engine is towards the back, or center for balance and torpedoes in the front.
Hopefully they have it "compartmentalized" where they have some dry compartments still.
Hopefully the torpedo didn't jamb or go off early, I thought they we were timed to stop that.
Maybe something swam right in front of the opening.
Scary stuff.

edit on 4 by Mandroid7 because: Corr



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 07:38 PM
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OK. I admit up front this may not be quite on topic, but I have a friend who was an EDO: Engineering Duty Officer, stationed where the Thresher was undergoing sea trials. He was either a LtCdr or Cdr at the time. He went to his boss's office and was waiting to see him in the ante-room to the Captain's office hoping to get a ride. Captain was having a conversation with another officer and they were joking that Officer X wanted to go on the Thresher's maiden voyage. Captain said that it was just a junket ride with no real value.

Having heard that, my friend feared for his career, got up and left the office without a word. Next sea trial the Thresher was lost with all hands on board. My friend was one of the liaison officers that had to work with the surviving families. Though he would easily have made Admiral he retired as a Captain and went to work as an exec for Lockheed Shipbuilding. I worked with his wife on Trident subs (boomers) at Subase Bangor.
edit on 4/21/2021 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
There is not likely to be a good outcome.

I hung out with some submariners years ago. They were tenants of a friend. Odd bunch.



Yes , Yes they are .

A Navy recruiter tried to get me to go Nuclear when I first enlisted , Long story short I am very glad I didn't .

These guys spend 6 monthes at a time underwater in a metal tube , Every nuclear guy I met while I was in seemed like his bulb was not fully screwed.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 07:50 PM
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More than likely a component of the torpedo weapons system failed. But the conspiracy side of my brain wonders if they stumbled into a Chinese sub and frighten them into a reaction by launching a torpedo.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 07:59 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The Type 209/1300, which is the Indonesian version, has a standard crew of 33. They had at least a few tech rep types on board for the torpedo drill they were carrying out, and I assume extra crew for training or wanting time at sea, or whatever, since, from the sound of things, it was going to be just a short sail and test.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:12 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

The Type 209/1300, which is the Indonesian version, has a standard crew of 33. They had at least a few tech rep types on board for the torpedo drill they were carrying out, and I assume extra crew for training or wanting time at sea, or whatever, since, from the sound of things, it was going to be just a short sail and test.
...which leads me to foul play, perhaps the Torpedo test spooked a vessel shadowing them and hastily fired on them.

Just stirring the pot, it may as well be an accident, but nonetheless, all things are open to consideration.

Plus, no debris of any kind were present but an oil slick, so there's that.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: Phage

I hung out with some submariners years ago. They were tenants of a friend. Odd bunch.


Did the propellers tatood on their butts give it away?


Twin screws on butt cheeks is a destroyer sailor tattoo.
Nukes have to be studious to survive nuke school and then qualify for dolphins. Not easy.
Fast attack subs are faster than boomers. Boomers are quiet. Both can do better than 20 kts submerged. The Virginia class boats have an S9G reactor and a jet pump.
The Enterprise had 8 reactors and was fast enough that in the 60's destroyers and cruisers would drag race the Big E and lose.

ETA: The personal interviews of JO's going nuke or NUPOC's with Rickover was the subject of many great sea stories.
edit on 4/21/2021 by pteridine because: ETA



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: Arnie123

There usually isn't any debris. The most likely way for a sub to be lost is to go below crush depth. In this case, they're talking 600 to 700 meters. Not much will make it to the surface from crush depth, if there's even anything that would float.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:38 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123

There usually isn't any debris. The most likely way for a sub to be lost is to go below crush depth. In this case, they're talking 600 to 700 meters. Not much will make it to the surface from crush depth, if there's even anything that would float.


At 700 meters the pressure is about 70 atm or a little over 1000 psi. Sequential failure of bulkheads puts the contents (crew) inside a diesel cylinder with a 70:1 compression ratio. It is blessedly quick if the hull fails.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:41 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123

There usually isn't any debris. The most likely way for a sub to be lost is to go below crush depth. In this case, they're talking 600 to 700 meters. Not much will make it to the surface from crush depth, if there's even anything that would float.
Ugh, so it could be anything, damn our limited Technological capacity concerning ocean depth.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: pteridine

That's the only good thing about an incident this.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 10:17 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arnie123

There usually isn't any debris. The most likely way for a sub to be lost is to go below crush depth. In this case, they're talking 600 to 700 meters. Not much will make it to the surface from crush depth, if there's even anything that would float.


Don't they have some type of Buoyancy tanks in case they lose power?

If they were testing torpedo's they might of had an accident with one of those.

Submarines are definitely not for me.



posted on Apr, 21 2021 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: Doctor Smith

They do, but the failure mode doesn't always allow them to work. I knew a guy that was on a boat that lost hydraulics in the middle of the Atlantic. They blew the ballast tanks, but since they couldn't move the dive planes, they didn't come all the way up. They were slowly dropping lower and lower as they tried to do repairs.



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: Zaphod58

My thoughts go out to the KRI Nanggala-402 crew's loved ones. The (probable) loss of the submarine is a cautionary note to the Australian government and the RAN. The production schedule for HMAS Attack, the first of the Attack Class and Collins Class submarine replacements, is absurd. (Construction on HMAS Attack starts approx 2023 and enters service with the RAN in 2030 -35).

Extending the life of the Collins Class submarines increases the risk of incidents at sea.



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 04:35 AM
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originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
Sounds like a torpedo tube failed and blew up the front of the sub.

Enough time to call mayday but not much else.

😢


Likely something like a hot run in the tube or a loop run by the torpedo that came back to the sub.

The mayday may have been automatic from the sub rescue buoy and the crew may have already been dead.
en.wikipedia.org...(submarine)
It is almost impossible to send a radio signal from a submerged sub.



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 05:03 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...

the right ship is on the way.



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 05:04 AM
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Oil slick on the surface only calls for high fives if your the guy dropping the depth charges. This won't end well.



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 09:01 AM
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originally posted by: ANNED

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
Sounds like a torpedo tube failed and blew up the front of the sub.

Enough time to call mayday but not much else.

😢


Likely something like a hot run in the tube or a loop run by the torpedo that came back to the sub.

The mayday may have been automatic from the sub rescue buoy and the crew may have already been dead.
en.wikipedia.org...(submarine)
It is almost impossible to send a radio signal from a submerged sub.


The US navy can communicate with a submerged sub. Though i doubt ths sub can but the navys system is very cool. It uses blue lasers for data transfers with the surface.

patents.google.com...



posted on Apr, 22 2021 @ 09:32 AM
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Alas, I'm watching this scene play out and it doesn't look good. It's already been 3 days and only a magnetic anomaly has been detected at 2000+ ft depth. This is beyond crush depth for the German Type 209 diesel-electric submarine.

Back in 2017 an Argentinian submarine sank in 3000 ft waters with the loss of the vessel and entire crew. It took about a month to locate the stricken boat: en.wikipedia.org...

What could have caused this accident? I know many are speculating that the Chinese may have torpedoed it, but I find that highly unlikely. Rather, there has to be a cause of such heavy ballast brought onto the boat in an uncontrolled fashion (flooding) OR a hydraulics failure of the fairwater plane control surfaces that the boat uses, coupled with speed to control depth (this is called a jam-dive in submarine parlance).

As to why there were so many people onboard - the submarine was supposed to be conducting tests. So beyond the 36 head crew there would have been evaluators and extra observers onboard. 20 extra people x 150 lbs each = 3000 lbs. Believe me, when my submarines got a good trim (neutral buoyancy) 3000 lbs made a huge difference, even on a heavy nuclear powered submarine. THAT alone could have caused the accident if they didn't properly drain ballast tanks to compensate prior to submergence.

EDIT: as to why their emergency main ballast tank blow system didn't work (or wasn't activated), that's a great question.

Whatever the case may ultimately be, it's becoming apparent that another maritime tragedy has occurred. Pray for these sailors and their families.
edit on 22-4-2021 by Avardan because: (no reason given)




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