Promising New Vaccine from Walter Reed Enters Trials

a reply to: jerich0

well, plenty of people who are unvaccinated are spreading it asymptomatically, and the studies so far are showing that vaccinated people are doing that at significantly lower rates. that's the math. that's where the numbers come from, and you can look them up yourself if you think i'm fluffing them.

as for masking and distancing, i will still be doing that in public. i will be socializing with my fully immunized family unmasked because that's relatively safe for all of us, especially because i know they are also all diligent about continuing to mask and distance. i know i'm not immune but i know my chances are a lot better right now and that's the best i can hope for.

a reply to: fiverx313

This is a bug for me... people who might not develop any serious symptoms, are being asked to risk serious symptoms from the vaccine, just because it's a given statistic.

Russian roulette - first, you might catch coronavirus. second, you may develop serious symptoms from covid. OR, risk it all with a shot.

I'd hate to be someone who may recover from covid should it develop, and be immune, to get seriously ill from a vaccine that was told to me, has risks...

I think I'll stay out of the public till all things are considered and sorted... seems the safest thing.

a reply to: fiverx313
not really..1-10% chance ( being nice) of vax issues....01% chance of severe symptoms DOING NOTHING, add intelligent remedies and therapeutics, Traditional Medicine is vastly better odds on something that doesnt have to go down.

originally posted by: jerich0
a reply to: fiverx313

This is a bug for me... people who might not develop any serious symptoms, are being asked to risk serious symptoms from the vaccine, just because it's a given statistic.

Russian roulette - first, you might catch coronavirus. second, you may develop serious symptoms from covid. OR, risk it all with a shot.

I'd hate to be someone who may recover from covid should it develop, and be immune, to get seriously ill from a vaccine that was told to me, has risks...

I think I'll stay out of the public till all things are considered and sorted... seems the safest thing.

i can't really blame you for that. i do think the risks of covid have been underplayed by some media and the risks of the vaccine overplayed, often by the same media. it makes it hard to cut through the confusion and really get to the heart of the matter. either way you're spinning the wheel. i feel like the odds are more favorable to me by getting vaccinated but everybody's got to decide for themselves. and i hope you continue to stay healthy and safe, either way.

a reply to: jerich0

And this is why i work graveyard. LESS UMMMM Germfactories around

a reply to: fiverx313

Fair call, seems you know the risks of both, and are doing what you think is right. Commendable !

Can't really say much more to that.

Cheers!

originally posted by: MissCoyote
a reply to: jerich0

And this is why i work graveyard. LESS UMMMM Germfactories around

That is my choice too, late nights till early morning. Works for me too, as the neighbours are noisy during the night.

originally posted by: fiverx313
a reply to: jerich0

well, plenty of people who are unvaccinated are spreading it asymptomatically, and the studies so far are showing that vaccinated people are doing that at significantly lower rates. that's the math. that's where the numbers come from, and you can look them up yourself if you think i'm fluffing them.

as for masking and distancing, i will still be doing that in public. i will be socializing with my fully immunized family unmasked because that's relatively safe for all of us, especially because i know they are also all diligent about continuing to mask and distance. i know i'm not immune but i know my chances are a lot better right now and that's the best i can hope for.

Does that make logical sense?

The premise of the vaccine is to lessen the severity of the virus' impact on one's body (i.e. less symptoms a.k.a. "asymptomatic").

I am curious about the proposed physical mechanisms that having the vaccine makes one have a lower probability of spreading the virus, say on their clothing, masks, personal items, onto surfaces, etc.

To say it differently, the state of being "asymptomatic" is no different for an unvaccinated person say +16 hours after contracting the virus versus a vaccinated person being "asymptomatic" +96 hours after contracting the virus. Both people are not hacking or feverish or visibly ill (the unvaccinated person will eventually get there at say +96 hours while the vaccinated person may never become symptomatic), but if they have virus particles on their person, .... they are still spreaders.

Like I said, I am very curious about the data that suggests this, and I'd like to understand how the explain/rationalize it.

originally posted by: fiverx313
a reply to: putnam6

and yet... the pfizer and moderna are 80% effective against catching it and 90% effective against getting severely ill.

pretty sure flu vaccines usually top out at 40-50% any given year and that's still a pretty big help fighting it.

I hope you are right, the point was is the COVID VACCINES are all in very early stages we will likely see dozens of versions of varying effectiveness over the next 10 years. It will in all likelihood be a yearly occurrence and the yearly need for the vaccine booster. As long as it remains optional and is not exclusionary or prohibitive I'm fine considering its lethality is less than 4%.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: fiverx313
not really..1-10% chance ( being nice) of vax issues....01% chance of severe symptoms DOING NOTHING, add intelligent remedies and therapeutics, Traditional Medicine is vastly better odds on something that doesnt have to go down.

here's the thing, to me... is that you can't really compare the stats apples to apples like that.

let's say, just for the sake of metaphor, that the covid vaccine is 90% effective, and without the vaccine, the risk of death or severe illness is 5%

say i'm a mugger, and you have $100, and i'm going to come take 5% of your money. so i get $5.

but you know i'm coming, and you put 90% of that money in a safe, leaving you with $10 in your pocket.

now when i come for 5% i only get $0.50.

you saved $4.50 by putting 90% of your money in a safe... which is the vaccine. and the $4.50 saved is people, or 90% of the people who would have gotten severely ill or dead are not in danger. that's how the stats relate.

as for vaccine incidents... even if you assume every single one you've read about on VAERS is related, and every single one you've heard about from a friend of a friend, or a news report speculating the vaccine caused it... is still incredibly incredibly smaller than the death and severe illness from covid. INCREDIBLY smaller.

i feel like we're dealing with such big numbers here that it's hard for people to conceptualize.

originally posted by: jerich0
a reply to: fiverx313

Fair call, seems you know the risks of both, and are doing what you think is right. Commendable !

Can't really say much more to that.

Cheers!

i can only return the sentiment

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

you caught that too LOL

a reply to: MissCoyote

I am willing to listen to the claim, read data and try to understand the explanation, but it does not make sense to me.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened
To say it differently, the state of being "asymptomatic" is no different for an unvaccinated person say +16 hours after contracting the virus versus a vaccinated person being "asymptomatic" +96 hours after contracting the virus. Both people are not hacking or feverish or visibly ill (the unvaccinated person will eventually get there at say +96 hours while the vaccinated person may never become symptomatic), but if they have virus particles on their person, .... they are still spreaders.

Like I said, I am very curious about the data that suggests this, and I'd like to understand how the explain/rationalize it.

i think this is where you're making an unwarranted assumption, and the difference is, i think, due to viral load. basically, everyone is not carrying or shedding equal amounts of virus.

i believe, and i do not have a source at my fingertips for this right now, that the amount of viral load a person carries makes the difference in whether they get sick and how sick they get, so while some people may technically have a few particles of virus in their system, it is not enough that they could reasonably infect another person. that is just me theorizing based on what i've learned about how viruses spread in general.

there is data out there about whether vaccinated people test positive for covid and they have shown that vaccinated people are less likely to be asymptomatic carriers as well. again, apologies for not having it at my fingertips... my folder of covid bookmarks has gotten a bit unwieldy in the last few weeks.

originally posted by: putnam6
I hope you are right, the point was is the COVID VACCINES are all in very early stages we will likely see dozens of versions of varying effectiveness over the next 10 years. It will in all likelihood be a yearly occurrence and the yearly need for the vaccine booster. As long as it remains optional and is not exclusionary or prohibitive I'm fine considering its lethality is less than 4%.

i think you're probably right. i think it will end up being a seasonal thing, especially given that so many are resistant to being vaccinated. i'm hopeful it could end up being an every other year thing at least, especially given that pfizer is showing 90% resistance still at the six month mark... but we'll see.

a reply to: fiverx313
how about s spike protiens and Ace 2 receptors??? what about more Ace 2 in Asian men, and more ACE 2 in men...hmm high blood pressure and ace 2, angio tensin cycle.

Anyone that actually knows phisiology knows what I just said in regard Ace 2

munching on popcorn reading thread in background working on my 3rd monster energy.....waiting for the fact that this virus has a survivability rate of 99% and 99.5% to dawn on people like the sun coming up over the pride lands of the lion king movie....

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: fiverx313
how about s spike protiens and Ace 2 receptors??? what about more Ace 2 in Asian men, and more ACE 2 in men...hmm high blood pressure and ace 2, angio tensin cycle.

Anyone that actually knows phisiology knows what I just said in regard Ace 2

how about you say outright what you're implying and we can go from there?

a reply to: fiverx313

I think you're missing the part where, if you put the money in the safe to hide from the mugger, you now gain an unknown percent chance of the mugger using a knife and randomly stabbing you first before taking your money. By keeping all your money, you also ensure the chances of the mugger carrying a surprise knife is zero.

How does the choice seem now?

originally posted by: fiverx313
a reply to: jerich0

well, plenty of people who are unvaccinated are spreading it asymptomatically, and the studies so far are showing that vaccinated people are doing that at significantly lower rates. that's the math. that's where the numbers come from, and you can look them up yourself if you think i'm fluffing them.

as for masking and distancing, i will still be doing that in public. i will be socializing with my fully immunized family unmasked because that's relatively safe for all of us, especially because i know they are also all diligent about continuing to mask and distance. i know i'm not immune but i know my chances are a lot better right now and that's the best i can hope for.

First of all, I want to thank you for discussing this in an non argumentive, rational intelligent manner more likely to get people's attention and focus that way.

Main point is it's an individual's choice, and one factor is where your community is on the spread. Here in Georgia we are at 15% fully vaccinated lowest in the US, yet our cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are flat or are decreasing. Georgia has been notorious for lax restrictions and opposing face masks. Not only that but Georgia's dominant strain of COVID is the b117 strain, the most contagious strain so far. Yet we aren't seeing a surge in cases yet. Not saying it will last, but it will be an interesting experiment, virtually nobody wore masks at the Braves game. Who knows maybe it's all the sweet tea.

www.npr.org...