Are the Lockdowns in Chile What'sComing to Rest of the World?

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: chr0naut

Well yes yes. Nobody is disputing that heard immunity works like it does among as zebra heard does to a pack of lions in the jungle somewhere in Africa does. That is to say. Everybody dress the same and follow stupid, and the lion just may pick the other guy as dinner tonight?

But I would not worry. Because it will be about as hard to catch the covid as it is catch the tooth fairy? That is. Both of them are made up so its like catching air in your hands. So it seems not only has everybody wearing masks not stopped covid spreed? But now the vaccine that was supposed to end having to wear masks? Does nothing to end any of that?

And I, quote you.

Vaccination campaigns work synergistically in that way....chrOnaut.

Did someone tell you that there would be a magic bullet cure and "it would all go away, just like magic, it will just be gone"?

And you believed them?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Tempter
YOU DON'T QUARANTINE HEALTHY PEOPLE!


Why does it feel like I'm sane in a world of crazy?!??!?!

In the case of 'symptom free carriers' of a disease, you do.

Especially if you have reasonable doubt about if they are 'safe' for community contact and where the pathogen is contagious.

You heard it folks, we don't know if you have it or not, so we're going to assume EVERYONE does and just stay in your homes.

That's downright dumb.

As in, dumb people believe that is a realistic approach.

Coronavirus is 99% SAFE!

Crash the world economy, lock yourselves in your homes! Distance yourself from EVERYONE!

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: chr0naut
Can you explain how lockdowns make pandemics much worse?

I can. The only pandemic were facing is a pandemic of fear, cowardice and stupidity, and lockdowns feed that.

People have been dying, for over a year, all around the world, of extreme pneumonic symptoms.

If there weren't massive numbers of people protesting, rioting and going to political rallies while they were supposed to be locked down, perhaps those lockdowns might have actually worked?

In New Zealand, the last lockdown we had, due to some cases out in the general community, was just for three days. Like a long weekend. No fear and dread. We simply controlled it and it's over - with minimum impact.

It's like you guys are taking turns to retrieve and throw the spanner into the works.

originally posted by: Tempter
Coronavirus is 99% SAFE!

Crash the world economy, lock yourselves in your homes! Distance yourself from EVERYONE!

AHHHHHHHHHHH!

It is 98.2% safe in the USA, That means 18 people will die of a preventable cause, out of every 1,000 who have COVID-19.

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Tempter
YOU DON'T QUARANTINE HEALTHY PEOPLE!


Why does it feel like I'm sane in a world of crazy?!??!?!

In the case of 'symptom free carriers' of a disease, you do.

Especially if you have reasonable doubt about if they are 'safe' for community contact and where the pathogen is contagious.

You heard it folks, we don't know if you have it or not, so we're going to assume EVERYONE does and just stay in your homes.

That's downright dumb.

As in, dumb people believe that is a realistic approach.

Nah it's so much cleverer to do nothing at all. After all, it will just go away, like magic.

a reply to: chr0naut

Then why would the USA have so may dead from this contagion, and my country of residence have hardly any?

Did you really need to ask that question ?
Ever heard of Ratios and Proportions ?
Use math .
It is your friend.

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Folks never see the greater good of math.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Then why would the USA have so may dead from this contagion, and my country of residence have hardly any?

Did you really need to ask that question ?
Ever heard of Ratios and Proportions ?
Use math .
It is your friend.

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Folks never see the greater good of math.

I did do the math. Just under the bit you selectively quoted.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: chr0naut

Then why would the USA have so may dead from this contagion, and my country of residence have hardly any?

As near as I can tell, the CDC reports that 562,064 Americans to-date have died with COVID-19 as COD on their death certificates, but in New Zealand, only 26 have?
...

You are ignoring that many of the "COVID-19 deaths were deaths from other causes that had nothing to do with COVID-19... Many more Americans have died from not receiving proper care for cancer, or other illnesses because hospitals have made it harder for people to seek help. Not to mention that, AGAIN, you are ignoring that the worse "cases" of COVID-19 are mostly concentrated in democrat states which forced closures... Same to what is happening in Chile, and many other nations...

So, all those doctors are lying on those death certificates, in every state of the USA, all the time.

No wonder.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: chr0naut
Can you explain how lockdowns make pandemics much worse?

I can. The only pandemic were facing is a pandemic of fear, cowardice and stupidity, and lockdowns feed that.

People have been dying, for over a year, all around the world, of extreme pneumonic symptoms.

If there weren't massive numbers of people protesting, rioting and going to political rallies while they were supposed to be locked down, perhaps those lockdowns might have actually worked?

In New Zealand, the last lockdown we had, due to some cases out in the general community, was just for three days. Like a long weekend. No fear and dread. We simply controlled it and it's over - with minimum impact.

It's like you guys are taking turns to retrieve and throw the spanner into the works.

An' the Gobble-uns 'at gits you
Ef you
Don't
Watch
Out!

Look at numbers world wide. Death tolls are NOT up. Same number of people dying as the last umpteen years.

Maybe the Wuhan Flu is the best thing to happen to mankind. Seems to have cured regular influenza, heart attacks, all other forms of death. YAY!

originally posted by: incoserv
Look at numbers world wide. Death tolls are NOT up. Same number of people dying as the last umpteen years.

This interactive graph at macrotrends disagrees with your statement.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

That was pretty great!

Thank you.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Great post...thanks.
I do not think the US has the capability to enforce any lockdown, especially in red states.
They may strongly suggest it, but at the end of the day it won't happen.

Your vitamin listing is interesting. I rarely get sick, never get flu shots etc. I do take several vitamins daily, including a multivitamin, B-complex, C and D supplements and fish oil. Not saying that prevents me from getting sick, but it certainly can't hurt. I also drink a decent amount of red wine (bottle or so a week), and I think the antioxidants aren't given enough credit.

One way that lockdowns have exacerbated this pandemic is by pushing the spread of it into older people. It’s pretty well agreed that if you are under 30 and healthy COVID presents little risk. We should have encouraged everyone under thirty to go to school, hug, dance, mingle, and generally live life normally. Many would have caught it, got over it, and been able to get on with life, and we’d be that much closer to heard immunity before the first shot went in an arm. It’s the same principle as the way we treated chicken pox before the vaccine for it. It was a disease that was relatively harmless if caught young but really bad if caught as an adult. So you made sure you kids caught it young. People under 30 have a death rate of either 2 or 3 per 100,000 infected. I’m not sure the vaccine is less risky than catching COVID if you are under 30. At the same time that we let the young be young, we should have focused on the aged. Things like quarantined health workers, compensated well of course, only allowing health workers who have been quarantined or already had the disease to interact with the most vulnerable. If you look at the differences I’d the US from states that had hard lockdowns versus those that didn’t, outcomes aren’t that different and in several cases the lockdown states fared worse.

I’m honestly thankful my family got COVID when it did. I don’t feel a rush to make a decision about participating in a species level experiment anytime soon. And to be honest with the exception of work and school which we’ve been back at since June and august of last year, we really don’t live life any different due to the virus except where we have to.

One way that lockdowns have exacerbated this pandemic is by pushing the spread of it into older people. It’s pretty well agreed that if you are under 30 and healthy COVID presents little risk. We should have encouraged everyone under thirty to go to school, hug, dance, mingle, and generally live life normally. Many would have caught it, got over it, and been able to get on with life, and we’d be that much closer to heard immunity before the first shot went in an arm. It’s the same principle as the way we treated chicken pox before the vaccine for it. It was a disease that was relatively harmless if caught young but really bad if caught as an adult. So you made sure you kids caught it young. People under 30 have a death rate of either 2 or 3 per 100,000 infected. I’m not sure the vaccine is less risky than catching COVID if you are under 30. At the same time that we let the young be young, we should have focused on the aged. Things like quarantined health workers, compensated well of course, only allowing health workers who have been quarantined or already had the disease to interact with the most vulnerable. If you look at the differences in the US from states that had hard lockdowns versus those that didn’t, outcomes aren’t that different and in several cases the lockdown states fared worse.

I’m honestly thankful my family got COVID when it did. I don’t feel a rush to make a decision about participating in a species level experiment anytime soon. And to be honest with the exception of work and school which we’ve been back at since June and august of last year, we really don’t live life any different due to the virus except where we have to.

Can you please provide proof that asymptomatic transmission is actually taking place? When this all started I do recall even your gods at the cdc claimed it never proven in the history of virology...
But without even a peer reviewed paper their claim changed. Why is "science" being rewritten ten fold in just over one year? Nothing fishy there eh....a reply to: chr0naut

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Then why would the USA have so may dead from this contagion, and my country of residence have hardly any?

Did you really need to ask that question ?
Ever heard of Ratios and Proportions ?
Use math .
It is your friend.

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Folks never see the greater good of math.

I did do the math. Just under the bit you selectively quoted.

Nope .
You left out some factors.
Sorry , try again .

originally posted by: Moelson
Can you please provide proof that asymptomatic transmission is actually taking place? When this all started I do recall even your gods at the cdc claimed it never proven in the history of virology...
But without even a peer reviewed paper their claim changed. Why is "science" being rewritten ten fold in just over one year? Nothing fishy there eh....a reply to: chr0naut

Surely the number of people who tested positive to multiple tests while they were in quarantine, but were asymptomatic, in multiple countries across the world, were an indicator?

If I recall, weren't Donald and Melania Trump two such cases of a positive test result without symptoms at the time?

This link mentions the issues about types and modes of asymptomatic transmission, and makes reference to papers on the subject: Asymptomatic transmission of covid-19 - The BMJ

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: chr0naut

Then why would the USA have so may dead from this contagion, and my country of residence have hardly any?

Did you really need to ask that question ?
Ever heard of Ratios and Proportions ?
Use math .
It is your friend.

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Folks never see the greater good of math.

I did do the math. Just under the bit you selectively quoted.

Nope .
You left out some factors.
Sorry , try again .

Here's a factor, there are multiple examples of countries across the world that have stopped the epidemic spread. It doesn't get simpler than that.

Even in New Zealand, which has done so well, there were mistakes, breaks in quarantine, mis-synchronization of critical events, infected people from quarantine put on busses with the uninfected, and so forth. None the less, there was a community response to work together and get through this rather than deny and decry everything. And there is an unarguable result. So, that would indicate that there is a large latitude in what works.

No amount of dubious possible factors or obfuscating issues explain the clear and simple results where things have mostly been done right, in multiple places around the world.

Good luck getting the majority of the USA to do any lock downs again anytime soon.