Mars Helicopter first flight attempt delayed

Data from yesterday's high speed test spin shows that Ingenuity ended the test early due to a problem switching between Pre-Flight and flight mode , tomorrows first flight has been postponed while the engineers figure out what's going on.
First flight is now expected no sooner the 14th April.

During a high-speed spin test of the rotors on Friday, the command sequence controlling the test ended early due to a “watchdog” timer expiration. This occurred as it was trying to transition the flight computer from ‘Pre-Flight’ to ‘Flight’ mode. The helicopter is safe and healthy and communicated its full telemetry set to Earth.

The watchdog timer oversees the command sequence and alerts the system to any potential issues. It helps the system stay safe by not proceeding if an issue is observed and worked as planned.
mars.nasa.gov...

a reply to: gortex

I really hope it can make it into the air! How high is it supposed or designed to fly?

a reply to: gortex

Disappointing.
I'm very excited for this.

originally posted by: Encia22

I really hope it can make it into the air! How high is it supposed or designed to fly?

Looks like they'll just be starting off with baby steps, and then gradually going further.

For the first flight, the helicopter will take off a few feet from the ground, hover in the air for about 20 to 30 seconds, and land. That will be a major milestone: the very first powered flight in the extremely thin atmosphere of Mars. After that, the team will attempt additional experimental flights of incrementally farther distance and greater altitude. After the helicopter completes its technology demonstration, Perseverance will continue its scientific mission.

mars.nasa.gov...-Facts

considering Mars' atmosphere is less than 1/100th the density of earth's, I don't understand how any of this could possibly work. If there is some really smart aeronautics engineer, please explain to me. I need answers.

Damn,oh well hopefully it goes up on the 14th.
From what I can deduce-The article doesn't explain what the actual issue is,just that the thing(watchdog timer) that stops the test program if it detects an issue did actually stop-or "expire" as the article states.
Did the test sequence take too long?
Or has the watchdog timer broken/errored?
Expired could mean either of those I guess.

Well they must know and be able to fix the issue if they plan to fly on the 14th I suppose.

originally posted by: cooperton
considering Mars' atmosphere is less than 1/100th the density of earth's, I don't understand how any of this could possibly work. If there is some really smart aeronautics engineer, please explain to me. I need answers.

IIRC correctly it basically comes down to much higher rotor RPM than earth helicopters due to the thin atmosphere/pressure.

A helicopter seems like an odd choice for such a thin atmosphere.
They must really rev up those blades.

Technical Specifications

Tech Specs

Mass 1.8 kilograms

Weight 4 pounds on Earth; 1.5 pounds on Mars

Width Total length of rotors: ~4 feet (~1.2 meters) tip to tip

Power Solar panel charges Lithium-ion batteries, providing enough energy for one 90-second flight per Martian day (~350 Watts of average power during flight)

Blade span Just under 4 feet (1.2 meters)

Flight range Up to 980 feet (300 meters)

Flight altitude Up to 15 feet (5 meters)

Flight environment Thin atmosphere, less than 1% as dense as Earth's

mars.nasa.gov...-Specs

Powerful enough to lift off in the thin Mars atmosphere. The atmosphere of Mars is very thin: less than 1% the density of Earth's.

The helicopter may fly for up to 90 seconds, to distances of almost 980 feet (300 meters) at a time and about 10 to 15 feet from the ground. That's no small feat compared to the first 12-second flight of the Wright Brothers' airplane.

originally posted by: cooperton
considering Mars' atmosphere is less than 1/100th the density of earth's, I don't understand how any of this could possibly work. If there is some really smart aeronautics engineer, please explain to me. I need answers.

There are several youtube videos that go into the engineering and testing of ingenuity. They answer a lot of questions.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse

originally posted by: cooperton
considering Mars' atmosphere is less than 1/100th the density of earth's, I don't understand how any of this could possibly work. If there is some really smart aeronautics engineer, please explain to me. I need answers.

IIRC correctly it basically comes down to much higher rotor RPM than earth helicopters due to the thin atmosphere/pressure.

Yep that and 4 foot blades more surface more lift, pretty sure they could easily lift 1.5 with much smaller blades here on earth


Weight 4 pounds on Earth; 1.5 pounds on Mars

Width Total length of rotors: ~4 feet (~1.2 meters) tip to tip

originally posted by: Bluntone22
A helicopter seems like an odd choice for such a thin atmosphere.
They must really rev up those blades.

We’re on a conspiracy forum aren’t we? I have never believed that Mars’s atmosphere is as thin as we are told. Lots of things don’t add up. The dust storms, the dirt devils, the, err, wind erosion, the parachutes - lots of things. That drone suggests to me closer to a 30-40% atmosphere. But then I know nothing.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
A helicopter seems like an odd choice for such a thin atmosphere.
They must really rev up those blades.

3000 RPM

a reply to: ARM1968

The lack of a magnetic field doesn’t allow for much of an atmosphere.
It will also likely cook anyone trying to live on the surface long term.

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: Bluntone22
A helicopter seems like an odd choice for such a thin atmosphere.
They must really rev up those blades.

3000 RPM

That makes sense.
A four foot rotor at 3000rpm.

That would fly apart on earth.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: Bluntone22
A helicopter seems like an odd choice for such a thin atmosphere.
They must really rev up those blades.

3000 RPM

That makes sense.
A four foot rotor at 3000rpm.

That would fly apart on earth.

Yes and no.

The first test of a helicopter rotor at Mars-like conditions took place around 2005 in a special test facility at NASA-Ames Research Center. It was a rotor on an instrumented test stand inside a chamber capable of reaching Mars-like atmospheric conditions. It generated the designed thrust for several minutes, thereby proving the aerodynamic design worked. However, the carbon fiber skins started slipping off the rotor spars due to centrifugal force. Centrifugal force is definitely the dominant force in a case like this.

Fortunately, JPL was smart enough to hire the guy who designed that first rotor to design the rotor for the helicopter that's on Mars today, and he knew how to make the design stronger against centrifugal force.

originally posted by: cooperton
considering Mars' atmosphere is less than 1/100th the density of earth's, I don't understand how any of this could possibly work. If there is some really smart aeronautics engineer, please explain to me. I need answers.

First, that statement that Mars' atmosphere is less than 1% of Earth's is only approximate. It depends on where and when you land on Mars.

It depends on when you land because Mars is cold enough at its South Pole to freeze out about 30% of the atmosphere as Dry Ice. That obviously makes the atmosphere a lot thinner. Mission planners try to arrive when the atmosphere is near its thickest, because that helps the parachute work better as well as the entry heat shield. It also will help the helicopter flight, in this case. The current mission arrived basically at the beginning of Martian spring equinox, to maximize this effect.

Planetary scientists have defined an altitude at which there is as much land area below it as above it. It's called the "zero datum". You can think of it as serving the same kind of function as sea level on Earth. It's an arbitrary reference altitude against which you can measure other altitudes. Right now, the atmosphere density at the zero datum altitude is about 1/68 that of Earth sea level.

The mission actually landed about 2.5 km below zero datum, which would make the atmosphere about 1/61 as dense as Earth sea level at the location where the helicopter is going to fly. That makes it equivalent to about 96,000 feet on Earth. We have tested Mars prototype aircraft that can fly at those altitudes, when you take into account the reduced gravity at Mars. Basically, you just have to increase the airspeed that the wing (or rotor) experiences to make up for the lower density. That's why the rotor on this little helicopter has to spin at about 3,000 RPM.

No flight this week.

update: Ingenuity is healthy, but it needs a flight software update. While the development of the software is straightforward, validating and uplinking it will take time. We will set a new flight date next week
twitter.com...

So let me get this straight.. this thing will fly around and send more pictures of rocks?

a reply to: cd5love96

Yeah. A spacecraft landed on another planet, dropped off a helicopter designed to fly in a very thin atmosphere and it'll be flown by remote control by people who can't see it and where it'll take about 11 minutes to send the instructions.

No biggie then.