How do we deal with the many issues facing the black community?

a reply to: CitizenZero

Individuals have trouble getting IDs, sure, but that is simply untrue of races.

So, many are affected, but blacks are most affected.

Because lower income groups are over represented in the group which does not have ready access to proof of citizenship and blacks are over represented in lower income groups.

a reply to: Phage

Listen i get the concept of adverse impact and how its racism. I get it.

But the issue i am having here is that 2 issues are colliding:

- lower socioeconomic classes seem to be having trouble getting ID's
- Black people are over represented in the lower class

The solution is not to sidestep solving either issue by nerfing the world. That isn't how things work, or how they should work. You address each of those issues to resolve your problem.

And i'll add: there is zero chance you will leave the lower economic class if you don't have an ID to get a job and pay taxes like a normal productive citizen does. So nerfing the system actually works to only entrench poor black people in poor situations even longer.

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
Lyndon Johnson and what he did with welfare was a factor in destroying the black family and culture in the U.S.

And as long as progressive continue to drive a wedge between races in the U.S., things will continue to deteriorate.
Culturally, socially, economically.

Blacks are the second poorest group in America, they are also the second most subsidized group too. The group that is the most subsidized and the poorest is the American Indian...

I think Jordan Peterson as talked on this subject that humans in general do not do well in these situations.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Listen i get the concept of adverse impact and how its racism. I get it

Racism implies intent. That is not the same thing as "adverse impact."

And i'll add: there is zero chance you will leave the lower economic class if you don't have an ID to get a job and pay taxes like a normal productive citizen does.

So, maybe figuring out ways to facilitate obtaining legal ID for those who have trouble proving citizenship would be a suggestion in line with the topic?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CitizenZero

Individuals have trouble getting IDs, sure, but that is simply untrue of races.

So, many are affected, but blacks are most affected.

Because lower income groups are over represented in the group which does not have ready access to proof of citizenship and blacks are over represented in lower income groups.

Looking at data through a racist lens is the problem to begin with. Of course we’ll see racial disparities when we view it in terms of racial identity politics. We’ll find such disparities if we approach it with any category, whether it be height, weight, or eye color. That such an approach is basically useless at solving the issue should be noted.

originally posted by: underwerks

Listen to the black community.

And what are they saying as so many of communities are dysfunctional or have self proclaim leaders that prey on them with race baiting for a living...Easy words to say...not sure if they really mean anything...

This country and a lot of its laws were built on age old racist tropes. I think a lot of people have to confront the fact that America isn’t some shining beacon of human respect and equality, it never has been. Black people have only been legally equal for barely 60 years, and everyone thinks this is long enough to throw off 400 years of societal oppression.

I'm 60 and 2020 is a lot different than 1960, just as 1960 was a lot different than 1900...lol

I have friends whose great uncles and grandfathers were lynched because of the color of their skin. We aren’t that far removed from it and those families still bear those scars.

How about the Irish, or the Chinese... Both were seen as the lowest form of humans and were typically used for the hardest most dangerous work...

My grandfather was born in 1888 (Irish, oops got some scars there) my Grandmother on my mothers side was a German Jew (oh the scars I have of the Nazis still itch sometimes), so you are telling me someone born lets say in 1970 are carrying the scars of their ancestor? I think that is pure BS and just an accuse, some might make. Also both MLK and Malcom X would disagree with you.

a reply to: CitizenZero

Looking at data through a racist lens is the problem to begin with.

Racism implies intent. While that is no doubt the origin of the problem, there are now laws meant to avoid it. That doesn't mean the impact on certain groups does not persist beyond the passing of those laws.

Height, weight, and eye color are not groups which are protected under the law.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

I think the world would be a different place if...just for a day....

Rich kids & teachers switched schools for a day
Bosses switched places with employees (hello undercover boss)
Different cultures switched places for a day
Men/women husband/wives etc. switched places for a day (I think Covid shed some light on this)
City folks and country folks switched places

How about allowing poor kids to pick their school of choice...Something the progressives will not allow..you know that whole liberal teacher union thing...

Where do you think bosses come from...they do not need to switch they started there...

a reply to: Xtrozero

How about allowing poor kids to pick their school of choice..

So, vouchers to attend private schools? Good plan, unless it reduces public school funding.

Sort of welfarish, though. Isn't it?

a reply to: Phage

You are playing semantics Phage. You do not have to intentially violate Title VII the Civil Rights Act for it to be a violation. The violation is, itself, the issue.

and there are volumes written about it being a dead end, philosophically.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

But im not going to think someone is acting wrongly when they evaluate risk through their own prism.

“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”

JJ

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: CitizenZero

Looking at data through a racist lens is the problem to begin with.

Racism implies intent. While that is no doubt the origin of the problem, there are now laws meant to avoid it. That doesn't mean the impact on certain groups does not exist.

Height, weight, and eye color are not groups which are protected under the law.

All racists view the world through a pseudoscientific, racist lens. Perhaps refuting that lens is a good place to start. We should refute it not only in looking at data, but also in enacting racist policies, which is one reason why we’re dealing with this subject in the first place.

It’s true that not all superficial categories and identities are protected by law, but that says nothing about whether these categories are false or valid enough to be maintained as groups in policy.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm not sure what your complaint is.

What I meant to convey is that, because a group may be adversely affected by something, it doesn't necessarily mean that something is racist. Racism implies intent.

I don't think RealID laws are meant to affect any one group more than any other but they can do so. While there may not be intent, that doesn't mean effort shouldn't be take to remedy the situation.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

The political left in America has mastered the notion of "you people" without actually saying it out loud.

All this really started around 2012 with the progressive narratives. When you look at each decade prior and see huge advances on many fronts it all hit a wall coming to a stop in 2012 and forward. Black leaders who fought hard in the 60s would roll over in their graves to see what has grown out of their accomplishments.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm not sure what your complaint is.

What I meant to convey is that, because a group may be adversely affected by something, it doesn't necessarily mean that something is racist. Racism implies intent.

I don't think RealID laws are meant to affect any one group more than any other but they can do so. While there may not be intent, that doesn't mean effort shouldn't be take to remedy the situation.

I do not disagree with you at all.

I just don't think calling efforts to require voting ID "racist" are productive. And believe that we should attack the problem, not the symptom.

originally posted by: Phage

So, maybe figuring out ways to facilitate obtaining legal ID for those who have trouble proving citizenship would be a suggestion in line with the topic?

Could you imagine if the Conservatives said we have voter fraud concerns and want voter ID, and the Liberals said OK, but we have concerns that certain demographics would be negatively impacted, so lets solve that issue and get everyone IDs, and the Conservatives said cool good idea lets do it!

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

We are in agreement. Playing too loosely with the term tends to feed the "opposition." It's used as shorthand, and it shouldn't be. But the basic concept does seem to escape some people.

But there is the "squeaky wheel" component. Some problems are ignored unless some ruckus is raised.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Xtrozero

How about allowing poor kids to pick their school of choice..

So, vouchers to attend private schools? Good plan, unless it reduces public school funding.

Sort of welfarish, though. Isn't it?

We pay taxes for kids to get free education right? I'm just riding the fricken train as you are...lol

That is the point...There are really bad schools out there in poor neighborhoods with kids coming from dysfunctional families... Where do you break the pattern?

I could care less a crappy school fails.. Turn it into a community center... I could also care less about the teacher union...

I would like to see these kids put into a better environment even if it was for 40 hours per week... The liberals have fought this tooth and nail...

originally posted by: CitizenZero

All racists view the world through a pseudoscientific, racist lens. Perhaps refuting that lens is a good place to start. We should refute it not only in looking at data, but also in enacting racist policies, which is one reason why we’re dealing with this subject in the first place.

It’s true that not all superficial categories and identities are protected by law, but that says nothing about whether these categories are false or valid enough to be maintained as groups in policy.

But who are the racist here... The ones who accuse everyone else as being one or the ones being accused?