Johns Hopkins: U.S. Death Rate Remains NORMAL Despite COVID-19

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

The sources are there.

And whatever he was talking about had nothing to do with CDC guidance.

No, he was talking about his actual experience as a doctor, first hand, in the UK.
That you think the US health care system is above such inaccuracy in reporting is laughable.
There is no more slapdash and corrupt country in the world than the US.

a reply to: UKTruth

No, he was talking about his actual experience as a doctor, first hand, in the UK.

Cool. If that's what the NIH recommends, it is quite different from what the CDC does. And we're talking about the US.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

The sources are there.

And whatever he was talking about had nothing to do with CDC guidance.

What I know is that narratives can be built about people one does not like.
I could collate a page that links to sources that would make Mother Theresa look like the devil.
I steer clear of crappy sites like RationalWiki because the people who run it are completely and openly extreme.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: UKTruth

No, he was talking about his actual experience as a doctor, first hand, in the UK.

Cool. If that's what the NIH recommends, it is quite different from what the CDC does. And we're talking about the US.

So the US is above such a lack of due diligence in reporting... I see.
Odd since one of the leaders of the Covid Govt task force in the US already admitted to the numbers they were using being inflated.

So, again, do you trust everything your Govt tells you? Or does it depend on what they are telling you?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Again... Since the start people whom had COVID-19, but died of something else, like a car crash, were still counted as dying of COVID-19... in other threads other members and myself have shown this has been happening from the start. There have been doctors, even democrat doctors, whom have stated they have been forced to put pretty much every death as if it was from COVID-19 despite dying of something else.

There have been many reports of, for example, people staying in line to get tested for COVID-19. Their names were written down but were waiting for hours and still had to wait more and left without being tested. Yet those people received mail claiming they were tested and had COVID-19.

Recently I was in south Florida again and visited family and friends. Everywhere i went family and friends knew of someone whom was claimed to have COVID-19 through the tests, but when their doctors examined them and tested them themselves these people didn't have COVID-19.

An elderly former neighbor, which we visited to see how she was, told us that one of her friends was going to go on a trip for elderly people to Georgia, but she was required to be tested for COVID-19. She had already paid for the whole trip. She was tested, and the test came back positive. But she went to her own doctor whom also tested her and she was negative. Even though she had the report of her doctor she was denied from going on the trip and lost all the money she had already paid.

I heard stories like that everywhere we went.

Apart from that more than enough evidence has been presented in these forums showing that the numbers of COVID-19 patients getting infected and dying from it are being exaggerated, mostly by unscrupulous hospital directors and doctors whom were/are more interested in getting more money by exaggerating/lying about the numbers, and it hasn't stopped.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

in other threads other members and myself have shown this has been happening from the start.

Yeah. It's been claimed quite a lot. Demonstrated, not so much.

But you use fallacious and incomplete data to try to make your point. There's a problem with that.

originally posted by: Phage

Yeah. It's been claimed quite a lot. Demonstrated, not so much.

But you use fallacious and incomplete data to try to make your point. There's a problem with that.

Wrong. You use the official data that has been exaggerated. I use the data inspected by experts.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Did those "experts" use death certificates for their data source?
The source in your link says this was used:

www.indexmundi.com...

Note: Numbers on this page do not include deaths due to COVID-19. Our estimates are based on deaths reported before the pandemic started

They also have a section on COVID.
www.indexmundi.com...

a reply to: Phage

Since the "official data for COVID-19" has been exaggerated how is it logical to use it?... Or do you deny what doctors and investigations have been showing that even people whom have died of cancer, in a crash, etc, if they had COVID-19 at the time of death they were counted as dying of COVID-19... Do you deny this?...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Since the "official data for COVID-19" has been exaggerated how is it logical to use it?...

So it makes sense to use projections which don't include COVID at all?

they had COVID-19 at the time of death they were counted as dying of COVID-19... Do you deny this?...

Yes, I do. Such deaths were classified as "COVID related" or "involving COVID." The subtle difference might escape you though. Death certificates show the actual cause of death as determined by physicians (or sometimes a coroner). This information takes time to compile.

a reply to: Phage

Liar, liar, pants on fire...

...
Earlier this month, Illinois’s top health official explained that any victim diagnosed with the novel coronavirus would be classified as a COVID-19 death—regardless of whether it contributed to the patient’s death.

“If you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had Covid at the same time, it’s still listed as a Covid death,” Dr. Ngozi Ezike, the director of Illinois's Department of Public Health, explained to reporters.
...
As Minnesota lawmaker and longtime family practitioner Dr. Scott Jensen recently observed, hospitals are incentivized to pressure physicians to include COVID-19 on death certificates and discharge papers, since the CARES Act increases Medicare payments to hospitals treating COVID-19 victims.

"Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for—if they're Medicare—typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,” said Jensen, whose claim was fact-checked by USA Today. “But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."

Physicians Say Hospitals Are Pressuring ER Docs to List COVID-19 on Death Certificates. Here’s Why

Even the previous examples others and I have given of doctors like Birx and many others stating that if people die with COVID-19 but die of something else those deaths are counted as dying OF COVID-19, but you want to lie to everyone's face when those doctor's own statements can be read by everyone and contradicts your lies.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Physicians Say Hospitals Are Pressuring ER Docs to List COVID-19 on Death Certificates. Here’s Why

Yes. COVID is listed, along with any other contributing causes or conditions, like diabetes for example.

originally posted by: Brotherman
I wonder how all the lockdowns and shutdowns and quarantines affected the large homeless populations in places like LA and Vegas? I wonder how many of them died just because they couldn't do what they normally could do to stay alive?

There has been a double digit increase in homelessness here in California. And homelessness is a killer, make no mistake. So could that have accounted for some of the increase?

a reply to: starviego

There was an increase in accidental death but, interestingly, a decrease in suicides.

There were also increases in deaths attributed to heart disease, stroke, diabetes, etc. The same people who are most at risk from COVID. So that makes sense.

originally posted by: Phage
...a decrease in suicides.

I have heard suicides are up, up, up in this lockdown year, yet you are telling me they are actually down?

And what about homicides and ODs. Both way up, according to what I am hearing, yet they aren't even counted on your chart....

a reply to: starviego

I have heard suicides are up, up, up in this lockdown year, yet you are telling me they are actually down?

Last year, 2020. According to death certificates, nationally. If you have better data I'd be interested.

jamanetwork.com...

yet they aren't even counted on your chart....

True. Maybe because the chart covers the leading causes of death? The data may be available elsewhere though.

a reply to: Phage

pm sent

Why do you trust these numbers so much? You want better data but I think the corona virus is going to turn out to be the biggest sham ever committed against mankind. Regardless of statistics governing bodies are moving for control over damn near everything. You have always been a champion of common sense, do you really believe this virus is worse then any of the other ones lurking around?

originally posted by: Phage
Do you think the 15.9% increase is fabricated?

They have a saying in Washington:

"There's lies, there's damn lies, and then there's statistics."

Point is you can massage the numbers to claim anything you want them to claim. Are these the same people that told us Biden actually won the last election?

a reply to: starviego

Point is you can massage the numbers to claim anything you want them to claim.

It's not really that complicated. Take the number of death certificates issued in 2020 and compare that to the number issued in previous years. You can get more involved than that, but that's the basic idea.

Are these the same people that told us Biden actually won the last election?

No, that was the election officials of various states, not the CDC. But weren't some people trying to prove that Trump actually won by messing around with statistics (badly) and trying to show what should have happened?

originally posted by: Phage
Take the number of death certificates issued in 2020 ...

Ok then, I'll bet they started issuing Death Certificates for aborted babies to beef up the numbers.