Did the Chauvin trial prosecutors just torpedo their entire case

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: daskakik

Wrong thread, actually. My bad. In one of the other trial threads dragonrider attempted to make a point that testimony indicated Chauvin's feet weren't touching the ground so his *omg* entire body weight!!! was on the felon's neck/shoulder/body/lungs. Physical evidence such as the above screen capture clearly shows the testimony to be erroneous.

Yes it is but you can still see his foot wasnt on the ground. Meaning his leg was resting on his neck.

thehill.com...

That cherry-picked millisecond piece of video was after Floyd lifted his head and chest off the ground. If he'd had any pressure on the neck, Floyd couldn't have done that.

Of course it was after he was uncoscious and cant lift up his body anymore. Not sure what point you were trying to make but obviously it had to be after. And it still shows even though he wasnt moving the POS officer kept his full weight on his neck. He showed no concern even though people were telling him hes not moving and unconscious.

I get it your ok with cops killing people if their bad guys unfortunately the law does make that stipulation. Officers do not have the right to just murder people.

a reply to: tanstaafl
Other than the knee to the neck, which is wrong anyway, they have nothing to do with the statement that I made.

a reply to: dragonridr

It is entirely possible that even with his foot off the ground there was no weight placed on floyds neck. The officer isn't levitating, he is simply shifting his weight to one side. With both knees on the ground you can put your entire body weight on one knee just by leaning a little to one side. Its not that hard to figure out. In other words, you really don't know how much, if any, weight in on floyds neck at any given time.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Did you see the coroner report for cause of death?

It disproves your theory.

Dr. Jonathan Rich testified George Floyd’s cause of death was “cardiopulmonary arrest caused by low oxygen levels induced by prone restraint and positional asphyxia he was subjected to"

The also disproves the alt-narrative that Floyd died of a drug overdose.

a reply to: jrod

Depends on which autopsy or expert you listen to though right?

a reply to: jrod

Actually, no.

The report you are quoting is from an independent autopsy performed at the request of floyds family.

The autopsy report from Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office concludes the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." That conclusion, death due to heart failure, differs from the one reached by an independent examiner hired by the Floyd family; that report listed the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure." This medical examiner's report does not mention asphyxiation.

The difference is the report you quoted said asphyxiation from sustained pressure, placing the blame directly on the officers. The official report said cardiopulmonary arrest, heart failure, was the cause of death.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
In other words, you really don't know how much, if any, weight in on floyds neck at any given time.

But that cuts both ways, especially with Chauvin supposedly being a bit of a hot head and also having 18 misconduct complaints on his record.

a reply to: daskakik

Did Chauvin threaten a pregnant woman with a gun, beat her and rob her? A misconduct complaint could be bogus but we all know what Georgie did...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dragonridr

It is entirely possible that even with his foot off the ground there was no weight placed on floyds neck. The officer isn't levitating, he is simply shifting his weight to one side. With both knees on the ground you can put your entire body weight on one knee just by leaning a little to one side. Its not that hard to figure out. In other words, you really don't know how much, if any, weight in on floyds neck at any given time.

So he would shift his full weight on to his back then again making it very difficult to breath. remember there was 2 other officers also on top of him as well so every breath he had to lift three officers But apparently during testimony they pointed out it was over 3 min so thats a very long shift.

a reply to: matafuchs
Floyd isn't on trial and him being a POS doesn't mean Chauvin can't be one as well.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

No it didnt both coroners came to the same conclusion homicide do to the officers putting pressure on him. People think the county coroner said something different he didnt both concluded lack of oxygen caused a heart attack. He didnt list it as an accident he lists it as a homicide. The coroner tore him up on the stand of friday Here is what the county coroner said



perma.cc...

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
In other words, you really don't know how much, if any, weight in on floyds neck at any given time.

But that cuts both ways, especially with Chauvin supposedly being a bit of a hot head and also having 18 misconduct complaints on his record.

Agreed. My point was that no one actually knows how much pressure he is putting on floyds neck at any given moment. Its obvious that at some points its more pressure than at others. But how much pressure was there? That is a very important metric and no one knows the answer.

a reply to: dragonridr

They did not come to the same conclusions. I quoted the difference, you just don't want to see it.
One said it was asphyxiation due to sustained pressure on his neck. The other said heart failure but makes no mention of asphyxiation. That difference is critical.

Asphyxiation due to pressure on his neck places the blame directly on the officers. Heart failure leaves open the possibility that there were other factors involved. That simple fact removes the certainty that floyds death was entirely due to the actions of the police. That is ultimately the point - beyond a shadow of doubt.

A coroners report is just an opinion. Granted, its from a professional and the results should be consistent from one to the next. But clearly that is not the case here.

I am not trying to justify the actions of the police nor condemn them. I am just looking at the facts and taking the personal philosophy out of the equation. No one knows for sure how much pressure the officer put on floyds neck. Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe due to the drugs he had taken before anyone ever put a knee on his neck. Floyd had taken a fatal dose of fentanyl prior to his arrest. Too many variables involved to be certain of anything.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Wrong i gave you a link here is what he said

Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression
Manner of death: Homicide
How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

Notice he said it was a homicide not an overdose or heart attack.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dragonridr

Asphyxiation due to pressure on his neck places the blame directly on the officers. Heart failure leaves open the possibility that there were other factors involved.

Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe due to the drugs he had taken before anyone ever put a knee on his neck. Floyd had taken a fatal dose of fentanyl prior to his arrest. Too many variables involved to be certain of anything.

Why did the city of Minneapolis assume officer Chauvin is guilty? A city doesn't send $27 million taxpayer dollars to the family of a man who died of a heart attack.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dragonridr

Asphyxiation due to pressure on his neck places the blame directly on the officers. Heart failure leaves open the possibility that there were other factors involved.

Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe due to the drugs he had taken before anyone ever put a knee on his neck. Floyd had taken a fatal dose of fentanyl prior to his arrest. Too many variables involved to be certain of anything.

Why did the city of Minneapolis assume officer Chauvin is guilty? A city doesn't send $27 million taxpayer dollars to the family of a man who died of a heart attack.

Wrong, there, carewemust. Obviously Somaliapolis does exactly that.

a reply to: carewemust

I don't know if the cop was ultimately responsible for floyds death or not. I don't think anyone else does either.

As far as paying the family, that is no indication of guilt in any way shape or form. I am from Chicago. The number of individuals, businesses and government agencies that have caved to pressure from the likes of the rainbow coalition, antifa, blm, and such are almost limitless. Very often it is simply easier to just throw some money at them and make them go away than it is to fight. They threaten peaceful protests and picket lines if you don't comply. But we know what that really means and it always ends in violence and destruction of private property. So just cut the check and be done with it.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Wrong i gave you a link here is what he said

Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression
Manner of death: Homicide
How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)

Notice he said it was a homicide not an overdose or heart attack.

His summation is homicide. But the report clearly says heart attack: cardiopulmonary arrest=heart attack.

Another member said both coroner reports were the same. They were not. One said "asphyxiation due to sustained pressure on the neck". The other said "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression". Asphyxiation is the direct result of the officers actions. A heart attack, made worse by police or otherwise, is not. That is the critical difference. Both can be classified as a homicide, but the degree of culpability varies greatly between the two.

Look at it this way: if the police had been chasing floyd and he dropped dead of a heart attack while running, would you blame the police? If they had not been chasing him he might have been just fine. But the exertion of running caused a heart attack and he died. Same thing. He was not choked to death like the one coroners report indicated. He died of a heart attack that was exacerbated by the actions of the police.

Again, I am only on the side of truth, regardless of which side that happens to be. For the record I think the actions of the police in many occasions are far too severe. But then I don't put on a uniform and face the threats to my life every day like they do either. I think there are some cases that are simply blatant. And others that are more complex. This one is in the middle for me. Kneeling on the guys neck after he was subdued was wrong whether it was directly responsible for, or was a contributing factor in, his death or not.

Either way, things need to change.