Did the Chauvin trial prosecutors just torpedo their entire case

a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

The he would have died anyway argument would not hold up in court. I know you think that is a reasonable argument but not to the law. This is how they can prosecute people for murder in assisted suicide, Doesnt matter if he would have died at a later date what matters is did your actions in some way helped lead to ther death.

originally posted by: Ringsofsaturn777

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Ringsofsaturn777

The standard for the prosecution is...'prove' beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard for the defense is to create reasonable doubt. If they are able to "prove" their arguments as reasonable then there will be reasonable doubt.

Stop being obtuse. I know you're smarter than that.

Any rational person already knows there is reasonable doubt. If george was white this probably wouldnt have even gone to trial.

What the defense has to show is their is resonable doubt that his actions did not assist or cause his death. This is harder then you think to prove. Police have even set rules in place about handling arrests because of this. Many police forces will tell you once he is subdeud the person must be sat up or rolled to their side. Its the added stress that indeed can cause someone to die. They had that case in DC where the guy died in the van on the way to jail. He was making noise banging on stuf so they stopped the vehicle and cuffed him laying down in the back of the van. He died from pulmanary distress which means he wasnt in good health. And he likely would have had a heart attack at some point. But you cant use that as defence for the police actions.

a reply to: Athetos
Of course it is a factor but people keep saying he had OD levels of drugs in him without really taking into consideration the actual levels.

That list is correct but Floyd isn't on trial though. That is not to say that he isn't responsible for his actions but Chauvin is also responsible for his. That is what is being looked at here.

a reply to: daskakik

The coroner didnt say he died because of drugs he had a heart attack. There seems to be some dispute if the drugs was indeed a lethal dose. But the coroner didnt even list that as cause of death. He had a heart attack do to being restrained according to coroner in fact he called it a homicide





perma.cc...

a reply to: dragonridr
I know, that is why I brought it up.

People keep saying he would have died of the drugs in his system anyway, without knowing what levels of drugs were actually found in his system.

The 11 ng/l of fentanyl mentioned in the autopsy is on the low end for anesthesia use and that would be on a patient who is not a habitual user.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: dragonridr
I know, that is why I brought it up.

People keep saying he would have died of the drugs in his system anyway, without knowing what levels of drugs were actually found in his system.

The 11 ng/l of fentanyl mentioned in the autopsy is on the low end for anesthesia use and that would be on a patient who is not a habitual user.

Yes, lethal for a non user is a very different thing than lethal to a habitual user

a reply to: vonclod

And one of the other things I can't seem to get straight is if drug users actually know they're taking fentanyl or not. Seems like every other report you read on the stuff alleges it is used to cut with other drugs to make them seem more powerful. Not knowing squat about these kinds of drugs myself, are there people on the street actually selling fentanyl, or are they selling fentanyl and calling it something else?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: vonclod

And one of the other things I can't seem to get straight is if drug users actually know they're taking fentanyl or not. Seems like every other report you read on the stuff alleges it is used to cut with other drugs to make them seem more powerful. Not knowing squat about these kinds of drugs myself, are there people on the street actually selling fentanyl, or are they selling fentanyl and calling it something else?

Mostly I think, it's done secretly. Last year, a girl I know was out partying with a couple of her friends at a club, I guess they like to partake on occasion, they got from a supposed trusted source. They got to one girls home after the club, my friend went home, I guess the other 2 finished off the party favours..in the morning, one girl was dead, turned out that little amount they did(coca) had been mixed with Fent, they did not know. Very tragic. She doesn't have any desire to party anymore. Here in the Vancouver area, we have 3-5 deaths a day from od.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: vonclod

And one of the other things I can't seem to get straight is if drug users actually know they're taking fentanyl or not. Seems like every other report you read on the stuff alleges it is used to cut with other drugs to make them seem more powerful. Not knowing squat about these kinds of drugs myself, are there people on the street actually selling fentanyl, or are they selling fentanyl and calling it something else?

Sometimes it is used to lace other drugs so no they dont always know. And the combination can be much more deadly then either of the two by themselves. For example mixing it with coc aine can easily cause a severe reaction your body goes into shock. Though after watching some of todays trial hes done anyway. When your police chief takes the stand against you thats never happened. Police Chiefs normally will not take the stand against officers because their will be people in his force that will not look kindly on it. And the ER doctor saying he believed it was caused by suffocation. His attys are losing

a reply to: dragonridr

Optics. A black police chief defending his people so that when the not guilty comes back he is expecting his blow back to be small. He did his part. What he should have done is back his officer. Because now everyone on that force knows he will not go to bat for them. It is a very very bad thing for this city.

He had a lethal does of fentanyl in his body. He OD'd. The only way he is convicted is to prove a point not make a legal judgement.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: vonclod

And one of the other things I can't seem to get straight is if drug users actually know they're taking fentanyl or not. Seems like every other report you read on the stuff alleges it is used to cut with other drugs to make them seem more powerful. Not knowing squat about these kinds of drugs myself, are there people on the street actually selling fentanyl, or are they selling fentanyl and calling it something else?

Drug dealers are buying fentanyl off the dark web/black market and are pressing xanax pills in their apartment and cutting it with fentanyl. These drug dealers accidentally put too much fentanyl in it, and one pill can kill you, and you have no idea you took it because you thought you were taking xanax. TONS of people have died this way.

If the argument is George Floyd died because of fentanyl where is the justice to go find the drug dealer who killed him? That's murder and drug dealers selling drugs laced with fentanyl get arrested and charged with murder all the time. There's absolutely nothing about that.

The cop's arguments are so bad, it's a joke. They killed him in broad daylight and broke so many protocols and policies. It's disturbing to read so many of you want those cops to repeat that behavior again, makes me think a lot of mudpitters are not from the US. Why any US citizen would want cops behaving like that is nuts, and anarchy.

Did anyone catch Covid from coming into contact with George? Because apparently George had it. I've never heard any follow up about that. Seems odd.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: dragonridr

Optics. A black police chief defending his people so that when the not guilty comes back he is expecting his blow back to be small. He did his part. What he should have done is back his officer. Because now everyone on that force knows he will not go to bat for them. It is a very very bad thing for this city.

He had a lethal does of fentanyl in his body. He OD'd. The only way he is convicted is to prove a point not make a legal judgement.

You obviously have not been watching anything on the trial. He's going to jail They presented a lot of evidence showing this officer went too far. They already blew apart the whole he overdosed. Apparently, it was not a lethal dose according to the coroner he died because the officer you can go back and read it I posted the coroners report they released to the press. It's stated it was a homicide, not an overdose. The police chief today said the officer was not following policy per the review board. They had the doctor at the ER who said he believed it was asphyxiation that caused the death. Even had some fellow police officers saying he went too far during the arrest.

So he's going to jail because reasonable doubt is disapearing. It got so bad today his attys were in damage control trying to say policy didn't change on arrests. To which the police chief said policy always changes you don't get to use an outdated method or policy just because you want to. And with a coroner who said a homicide was committed he is going to jail.

You don’t see the any flaw in a coroner declaring it a homicide? Like maybe that’s not his call to make or he wouldn’t even have enough information to make that call. For example you could have a gunshot wound to the head, it could be suicide it could homicide. The coroner job is to tell you the death was caused by the gunshot not why the gunshot. Understand?

a reply to: dragonridr

a reply to: dragonridr

I've watched the whole thing. In my opinion they've shown the opposite. This case should be thrown out.

originally posted by: Athetos
You don’t see the any flaw in a coroner declaring it a homicide? Like maybe that’s not his call to make or he wouldn’t even have enough information to make that call. For example you could have a gunshot wound to the head, it could be suicide it could homicide. The coroner job is to tell you the death was caused by the gunshot not why the gunshot. Understand?

a reply to: dragonridr

Part of the coroners job is to decide if something is a homicide. Thats why he does his report in the first place trying not ot laugh at you.

Medical examiners/coroners are charged with determining the cause and the manner of death. ... In terms of describing the manner of death (or how the death occurred) the medical examiner/coroner usually has 5 options for coding purposes: Natural, Homicide, Suicide, Accidental and Undetermined.

He chose homicide meaning he believed he was killed. Now you can argue with his conclusions if you like but it was a major factor in the prosecution deciding to go forward I assure you. Had the coroner set it at accidental like an overdose their would not be a trial.

originally posted by: RMFX1
a reply to: dragonridr

I've watched the whole thing. In my opinion they've shown the opposite. This case should be thrown out.

Well i guess the prosecutor disagrees with you. Perhaps you should write him and explain why yu think he is wrong. Im sure his decades of experience dealing with courts doesnt amount to yours or the judges.

a reply to: dragonridr

Of course they do. That's how this works. What are you talking about. Yesterday it was pretty much shown that the knee on the neck was a false narrative proven by the body cams and agreed upon by the MPD trainer under testimony. I don't think you've been keeping up, with all due respect.

a reply to: RMFX1

No i guess you heard what you wanted to hear. Yes his leg was across his shoulder he said the chin is across the neck. So the prosecution showed him a photo of where his knee was located. And he said that was not what he was trained to do. The moment he stopped resisting he was supposed to reaccess and remove his knee. A submission hold like that can make it very difficult to breath its supposed to thats why you have to continually reaccess. Just like a choke hold you can cause someone to pass out or kill them if you hold it to long. The prosecution showed him grinding his knee into the man's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, this is not something they train Minneapolis police officers to do.

Can you hold your breath for 9 min? I know i cant and i doubt you could either. Today the state investigators took the stand it didnt go well for the defence tommorow is the medical examinar and hes going to tell the jury it was a homicide.

a reply to: dragonridr

Chauvins knee was on Floyd's shoulder blade. He is walking free.