Aliens or what?

i believe there is life everywhere in the universe. i don't believe that we are visited and have even had contact. i once was a believer. as long as i stayed on the surface and didn't question the stories. then i started to look at other more plausible explanations and had to realize that many of the 'popular' ufo stories are often not so extraordinary after all. the phoenix lights for example. there is a simple explanation. you can find it on the net if you want. reference: tony ortega. the ufo wave over belgium. the famous photo that turned out to be fake in the end. i am still fascinated by the zimbabwe incident (ariel school). but it was children. and it is just a story. there are no photos, no videos, just the disturbing testimonies of the children. an interesting psychological article describing this and similar incidents: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

i want to talk about the current case. the drones that regularly haunt american warships and that many believe to be alien flying objects. there is supposed to be an official report on these drones and the famous nimitz encounter (tic tac). the ufo community is vibrating. my questions to the ats members is: if an unknown drone circles an american warship, flies over it, flies alongside, that means a potential danger. because you don't know what it is. why are none of these drones shot down? instead, they observe, report, but don't act. that sounds pretty unamerican to me.

i think the answer to most sightings: secret tests of future technologies. it's just the most logical explanation.
best regards with some cool zeitgeist from germany!

a reply to: oloufo

I would assume we would do preliminary testing of our newest high-tech drones safely around our own ships first...so as to not risk our latest technology falling into enemy hands.

a reply to: oloufo
So that's your answer, if you don't like it shoot it down. Craft, no matter whos, alien or not, buzzing around anywhere, war ships, secret installations, etc. are NOT a threat till they do something to be a threat. To shoot down any unknown craft would be like poking a hornets nest. If it is another race of beings they might be far ahead of us with their weaponry so to antagonise and make an enemy just because you didn't want them to look at you is very, very dangerous and could be disastrous for the whole human race.
We have had this similar discussion about Russian aircraft flying very near the UKs airspace.
As usual i will say why all the fuss, what can they see or discover that they can't see on Google Earth. They're not going to attack and till they do it's a fly by.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: oloufo
So that's your answer, if you don't like it shoot it down. Craft, no matter whos, alien or not, buzzing around anywhere, war ships, secret installations, etc. are NOT a threat till they do something to be a threat. To shoot down any unknown craft would be like poking a hornets nest. If it is another race of beings they might be far ahead of us with their weaponry so to antagonise and make an enemy just because you didn't want them to look at you is very, very dangerous and could be disastrous for the whole human race.
We have had this similar discussion about Russian aircraft flying very near the UKs airspace.
As usual i will say why all the fuss, what can they see or discover that they can't see on Google Earth. They're not going to attack and till they do it's a fly by.

that sounds plausible. i don't know the rules here. but isn't it an intervention in military airspace? and how does the navy know that there is no danger from the drones? especially in these times when there is a crisis between the great powers.

If you read up on the Nimitz encounter (a.k.a. TicTack), the 'drone' wasn't flying in close proximity to Navy ships, at least as far as I recall. My recollection was that some F-18's on a training exercise were re-tasked to investigate odd radar returns that were detected on the naval vessels, but there was no visual contact from the the ships themselves. This doesn't necessarily rebut your idea, though. The F-18's were out and about, IIRC were not carrying live ordinance b/c of their training mission, so if one wanted an opportunity to measure up the capabilities of some next-gen drone, matching it up against elite pilots, flying modern fighter jets, without arming the fighters or cluing the pilots into the nature of the encounter, this might be about as taxing a live exercise you could gameplan up without putting the drone in position to be brought down (and possibly captured).

BUT not so fast....

Is it really a wise thing to do, from the point of view of the crew of the naval vessels, and most especially the F-18 pilots, to drop them into such a situation, unaware of what they're really up against, unarmed, and if this scenario is in fact true, all of the personnel would've have been deceived (by omission of fact) about what they were encountering.

ANY training mission seems to have inherit risk; Zaphod posts accidents that occur all the time as a result of exercises that were probably intended to not be that risky.

Those are very expensive craft to drop into a 'blind taste test' scenario, and have the pilots max out their speed and maneuverability, pulling a lot of Gs to keep up with something that cannot be kept up with by conventional craft.

Those are very talented pilots that the Navy had invested a lot of time into training and honing their skills. Seems to me like that encounter would have the potential of psychologically impairing, or at least really unnerving, drivers that are accustomed to being atop the aviator food chain.

I have seen it thrown out there that all of this was an elaborate setup, an intentional false flag to drop an Above Top Secret US military research craft into the ultimate dry run: pitting it against the USN's best pilots. It seems plausible, I guess, but the risk factor (everything mentioned above) seems really REALLY insane. Lives and tens of million$ of hardware were in the balance. Anybody doing that would have to be a pretty ruthless SOB in my estimation, and this would have to have been orchestrated /prima facie/ by someone with so much power and operational pull as to outrank and out-command, or at least keep secrets from, top Naval brass (are there many admirals that would let their pilots and crew fly up against cutting edge tech without even knowing what they were up against)

So how do you like your conspiracies: raw or well-done?

Was this thing some off-world craft with intelligence and capabilities far surpassing those of the most mighty military force on the planet?

Or was it a /product/ of the most mighty military force on the planet, playing surreptitious war games, which were drawn up and executed by some shadowy figures (next-level MiB's) with higher clearance and operational info than top-level Navy officers? Or are there some really ahole top-level Navy brass that went along with this stunt, either willingly or against their will?

Is there any room for a 'medium rare' conspiracy (i.e. some Chinese next-gen toy?).

All of the conspiracies that I know about that are in play seem to have some nicks and scrapes, in terms of how plausible they are. I guess that's what makes it such an interesting subject.

Do you really think the US would spend years begging a ride to low earth orbit from the Russians? That’s for show. The technology of the US is probably more on par with the show Stargate.

a reply to: oloufo

Wow- you and I agree on something. 👍🏻

a reply to: oloufo
The rule is, if you strike first you are the instigator of the war. Think of WW2, at the start the "allies" could not attack Germany till they physically attacked another country. The taking of Sudetenland and Austria was not an armed conflict but attacking Poland was, hence the UK declaring war on Germany.
The same with the US. No matter all the sabre rattling of the Japanese the US did not declare war till after the attack on Pearl Harbour.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: oloufo

Wow- you and I agree on something. 👍🏻

a reply to: oloufo

You said:

i believe there is life everywhere in the universe. i don't believe that we are visited and have even had contact.

To me, this is just an illogical position. If you believe there's life in the universe, what do you believe is stopping them from visiting earth or some of their probes visiting earth?

Are you saying life in the universe is limited by our understanding of science and technology?

How do you explain U.F.O.'s that have been flying in our skies since the dawn of civilization? How do you explain U.F.O.'s the outrun some of our fastest jets and that cause Nuke sites to malfunction?

What civilization on earth has gotten around Moore's Law and created all of this advanced technology? Here's a case:

The Pascagoula abduction of Calvin Parker and Charles Hickson is one of the best known abduction cases in the history of Ufology. One of the men, Calvin Parker, recently wrote a book after 45 years of mostly staying silent. The guy could of made a killing traveling with Hickson on the U.F.O. circuit but didn't want to say anything at first and retreated from the spotlight. He finally chose to tell his story 45 years later and it's as profound today as it was back then. Here's a video where Parker gives some detail as to what happened.



These guys were examined, polygraphed and they tried to trick them by recording their conversations unbeknownst to them.

Parker says some very interesting things. He says that the 3 creatures came out of the ship and these 3 creatures took them into the ship and into an examination room. He said these 3 creatures looked more mechanical. This is important because he notices mechanical movement vs. what he saw later.

He then says something came out of the ceiling and examined his head. After it examined his head, it went back up into the ceiling and another creature came into the examination room.

This is important, because while the others looked mechanical, this one looked biological. It looked like something he recognized because he said it was female. The female being talked to him telepathically and told him everything would be okay.

Here's Hynek talking about the case.





Questions:

1. If Parker and Hickson were lying, where's the evidence?

2. If they weren't lying, then what country on earth got around Moore's Law and had the technology described?

a reply to: oloufo

if an unknown drone circles an american warship, flies over it, flies alongside, that means a potential danger. because you don't know what it is. why are none of these drones shot down?

Very astute observation.

a reply to: crayzeed

The rule is, if you strike first you are the instigator of the war.

It doesn't work that way in maritime engagements .

a reply to: oloufo
Thanks for the article on the mass hysteria events in Africa-that's a fascinating subject.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In that article,the Zimbabwae UFO school incident stands out to me(I know of the story,but it the context of the article it seemed out of place).
The rest of the mass hysteria events were things like mass faintings,contagious laughter,talking gibberish,momentary mass panic/madness/sickness-
All those fit with the theory that the cultural situation,possible increase in stress/worry trigger these events.
Churches,rumors of satanism/demons are often involved...mass hysteria ensues.Ok theres a pattern there sort of.

The UFO landing at the school just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the events somehow.The content of the event was in no way similar to the others,and the kids were not in a crazy panicked state when they told their story IIRC.
I don't know what went on at that school,but it doesn't match the other symptoms of the other events to me.
Great article though


The term used in the article "Epidemic Psychological Disturbance" -I guess thats the medical condition/ term for what they say is a mass hysteria event-instantly made me think of the videos I have seen of people speaking in tongues and fainting in the kind of church services where demons are cast out,healings/percieved healings take place,people have religious "seizures".

Almost like those kinds of churches have knowingly or unknowingly tapped into a way to induce the medical condition of "Epidemic Psychological Disturbance"

Interesting to ponder.

They ARE here now, and they have been here since a long time ago.

My cousin was a door gunner in a Helo in Vietnam and they were ordered to fire on a saucer. When they did that it shot them down. They auto rotated down from 500 feet and crash landed and they all survived. About 2 or 3 months later a General rescinded the shoot down order because of so many losses of aircraft. Some crews were shooting at them with armor piercing rifle rounds from the ground and were immediately irradiated with an unknown radiation that made them severely ill, and were stuck for days until rescue crews evac'd them.

The military learned, and it is still in force today NOT TO SHOOT at them. (Or die). They aren't overtly hostile unless fired upon.

It is childishly naive to think they are not here, or that they haven't visited with all the data available to understand that. But that describes the human race in general doesn't it.

You're so easily able to write off all of the ancient alien evidence?

There is some pretty intriguing stuff there, particularly ooparts, and some ancient structural engineering.

I am one of those willing to believe humans were able to create some of these things with their own ingenuity, but to assume outright that it's 100% manmade no questions asked, is a little too black and white, in a very grey area.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened
Is it really a wise thing to do, from the point of view of the crew of the naval vessels, and most especially the F-18 pilots, to drop them into such a situation, unaware of what they're really up against, unarmed, and if this scenario is in fact true, all of the personnel would've have been deceived (by omission of fact) about what they were encountering.

The pentagon denies that they would test new technology against their own forces without telling them they were doing that. In fact we can cite cases where such tests have been announced. But, that's not the best test of a technology which is designed to baffle or confuse the enemy, and in such a case you might not want to announce the test.

John Greenewald Jr of the Black Vault doesn't believe the pentagon that they would always announce a test of new tech against their own forces, especially if it's just some radar-spoofing tech that's not that dangerous, why not? I tend to agree with him on that point, that it's a possiblity. Whether or not that's what happened, I don't know. I also think it's a possibility for the more recent drone sightings near the channel islands. The Navy owns one of those islands and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they had Navy Seals using drones for training in recon of potential targets. In fact if you read the article on that, it's one of the first ideas that occurred to the Navy investigators, that the drones could be from US military forces, where one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing, especially if the drones are new technology that's compartmentalized, they won't tell everyone what they are if they are still secret. Not that their performance was that great in terms of speed, but they apparently had long air time for a drone.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Questions:

1. If Parker and Hickson were lying, where's the evidence?

2. If they weren't lying, then what country on earth got around Moore's Law and had the technology described?

That's a false dichotomy, meaning those aren't the only two options. Lots of people who tell the truth from their own perspective, are wrong about what they think happened. Probably with nearly all alien abductions that's the case, if not all. The toll bridge operator nearby who should have also seen what they saw didn't see it, so that's not evidence in favor of their story, but that doesn't mean they were lying. I think most abductees really believe their own stories are true from their perspective, but that doesn't mean they were really abducted by aliens. Human psychology is far more complicated than your simplistic questions.

By the way, Parker told police that he slept through the whole thing (which Hickson confirmed on "To tell the truth"), so we're really talking about an experience of one person, Hickson. I think they both changed their stories over time, which doesn't help their credibility that they can't keep their story straight, and even got into claiming some really strange things that didn't help their credibility either.

Pascagoula Abduction

...Parker's corroboration of the tale was likely due to suggestibility because he initially told police he had "passed out at the beginning of the incident and failed to regain consciousness until it was over",[4][5] a claim supported by Hickson during his To Tell The Truth appearance

a reply to: oloufo

Actually the universe is 13.8 billion years. This planet was formed 4.5 billion years ago. There are 100 billion planets its calculated in the milky way alone, with 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets its estimated to be in the known universe.

So out of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 in the 13.8 billion years of the universe constantly forming galaxies and dying, planets and suns of untold numbers. You alone. The human species is what exists?

Its an interesting theory. And no doupt is correct on some levels. But if going by just the things going on and the rudimentary knowledge we have about the universe. Not only would life on earth alone be some weird effect of chance. But it would be statistically that in that vast amount of space and planets out there, that this is all that exists and will exist.

And in that timeline and given the massiveness of the solar system alone, not to mention the universe. It is almost absolutely impossible that we are the only species floating on a rock in a void that is out there. In fact in those timelines we may not even be not only be the first sapient species, but we may not even be the 100th billionth, that not only exists, but has existed and gone extinct somewhere in the far galaxy or universe.

In that kind of timeline and those kind of number after all 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe. The technology level we are now could have been something that some species evolved to billion or so years ago, and they still have more then enouph time to go extinct in the greater skheme of things.

For all you know, were just a species thats kept around by another alien species. Purely for amusement, or for some reason we cant phantom now with our tiny human brains and minds. We may think were smart but that is purely a matter of opinion.

No doupt there are some smart ducks out there. But what would it matter to a human?

Unless offcourse? Space if fake and hoax. Then? Well, everything purely exists.

Sorry to blow your bulb. But chances are, and going by the numbers alone, well we are not that special, out of those numbers even if there is a 0.1 % change that another species evolved like we did some were out there. Well even that would mean that there are billions of other such planets and species, all with there little idiosyncrasies out there.

So ya! Space...UFOs....Merely an opinion based on who you ask. And as most people all they know of space and UFOs is what the media tell them? What more need be said.

Some of them eat us.Humanity must activate and fight back now.

a reply to: oloufo

I disagree with all you wrote. You reference many things including the Ariel school but cut you own investigation short. Then again you and I are part of the Goggle life in that we are steered with our feet in a couple of buckets towards whatever they want.

In 2017 a series was on Discovery + . It was titled Expedition Unknown Hunt for Extraterrestrials by Josh Gates.

Expedition Unknown: Hunt for Extraterrestrials

In the 3rd episode he returns to the Ariel School with many of the kids who are now adults. Also did you know that all kids were separated and asked to draw what they saw? That happened in 1994 and they still have the drawings. Take a look and report out. However, if you don't then I would think of you as a disinformation specialist.

Then the series was torpedoed by claims of fraud.

So why is it these series are always torpedoed? Read the book called "Mind Games" by Richard Thieme. You will understand in the 1st 50 pages as to whats going on and why these shows also have to include some fake stuff.

Aliens in my opinion have been here on earth for at least 30,000 years. Look at all the ancient carvings all over the world of the large eyed things. All coincidental of course right?

Kick it up a notch and Deny ignorance. Its all out there and free!

Most plausible explanation for me is that the ETs have made contact and there is an agreement on both sides to not make things known for whatever reason and that should scare everyone. Things that are done in the shadows are by nature are nefarious.

It is obvious for anyone with a brain that there are unexplained things in our past and present and our leaders act like they do not exist. Why do they do that? Whenever someone can’t even discuss the subject at hand it sets off all forms of bells and whistles in my mind.

What gave me enough information was Roswell. A base housing our best and brightest confused a weather balloon with a flying saucer and the information surrounding the encounter is redacted to this day. What plausible possible explanation could there be? There isn’t one.

The secrecy of our world will be its downfall.