EU Reports 3,964 Killed by Covid Vaccines, 162,610 Injured

a reply to: Grenade

Deaths directly attributed to COVID is not the only usable metric. Something dramatic began last year, in the US anyway.


There is a lag of several months in the data (which comes from death certificates) so the more recent data is less reliable. While correlation does not imply causation in lieu of other data, there is other data. The curve is a remarkable fit to that of the COVID infection rate and hospitalizations. I think COVID has killed a lot of people who would not have died otherwise. In the US anyway.


www.cdc.gov...

a reply to: Phage

I have no doubt Covid exists and is dangerous to the elderly and medically vulnerable. The extent and reporting i'm not so sure of, definitely politicising and profiteering are rampant and seem to be driving the pandemic rather than genuine health concerns.

a reply to: Grenade

There are always those who will take advantage of a crisis. That doesn't mean it isn't a crisis.

When hospitals reach capacity, that's a crisis. It's not just the elderly and "vulnerable" who get hospitalized by this disease. But they all take up beds (and require isolation) that say, the victim of a car accident might need.

As I said, I consider the deaths (as awful as they are, even if they are just old people) to be a distraction from the overall strain put on the health care system (beds, doctors, nurses, technicians). That is, and has been the concern. Of course, controlling hospitalization rates does have that bonus of fewer deaths.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: Phage

We're in the minority in that we actually research and analyse the data from multiple sources in order to make conclusions regarding the severity of the virus, efficacy of treatment and reliability of the science.

Unfortunately the majority of people will simply see our registered deaths from Covid as 127,000 in the UK. This figure is completely outrageous and far from a true reflection or indication of the situation. Regardless of the cause of death we report ALL deaths within 28 days of a positive test as Covid.

The Office Of National Statistics uses cause listed on deaths certificate and has 135,000 deaths related to covid in England & Wales (March to March).

The use of covid tests to determine number of deaths almost certainly underrecorded the number of deaths particularly during the earlier stages of the Pandemic as there was inadequate testing.

a reply to: Phage

Similar to the the UK between from the start of the pandemic to the end of the year total deaths in England and Wales were about 18% higher than expected.

a reply to: ScepticScot

BS.

Registering ALL deaths that happen within 28 days from a positive Covid test is not an accurate reflection of how many of these deaths were a direct result of Covid. To suggest this would result in under-reporting is ridiculous. Your confirmation bias has been demonstrated time and time again on this subject. There's no consideration for actual cause of death, if you've tested positive it's added to the figures regardless of clear and obvious suicide, overdose, murder, accident etc.

The lockdown will have caused many more of these other types of deaths which will be hidden behind the virus.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

BS.

Registering ALL deaths that happen within 28 days from a positive Covid test is not an accurate reflection of how many of these deaths were a direct result of Covid. To suggest this would result in under-reporting is ridiculous. Your confirmation bias has been demonstrated time and time again on this subject. There's no consideration for actual cause of death, if you've tested positive it's added to the figures regardless of clear and obvious suicide, overdose, murder, accident etc.

The lockdown will have caused many more of these other types of deaths which will be hidden behind the virus.

As I said in the post you replied to, but apparently didn't read properly, the ONS uses death certificate data, not test data.

The confirmation bias seems to amongst those who early on decided that the virus wasn't serious and now find themselves unable to revise that belief despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

a reply to: Phage

Yes, our projections suggested hospitals would reach capacity, that's why we spent over £500 million on temporary hospitals that ended up with more staff than patients. I wonder how many pockets that total farce lined.

There will be an obvious influx into critical care over the next year, i'd suggest cancelling the vast majority of surgery and massively increasing the wait times for cancer operations will not help the situation.

a reply to: ScepticScot

When did i mention or reference the ONS data at any point? I was using the Public Health England measurement.

If you think 135k people died directly due to Covid over the last year then you're entitled to that opinion, it could well be a contributing factor in a lot of those deaths.

"Number of deaths of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations."

edit: I've had Covid, in my experience it was far from serious. Certainly i think the solution is far more dangerous for society than the problem ever was. But hey, when have governments ever lied to the people in order to further an agenda.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

When did i mention or reference the ONS data at any point? I was using the Public Health England measurement.

If you think 135k people died directly due to Covid over the last year then you're entitled to that opinion, it could well be a contributing factor in a lot of those deaths.

"Number of deaths of people whose death certificate mentioned COVID-19 as one of the causes. The data are published weekly by the ONS, NRS and NISRA and there is a lag in reporting of at least 11 days because the data are based on death registrations."

You started your post BS while replying to a post talking about the ONS figures and went on to talk about testing data. Perhaps you could try replying to the points people actually make?

Its not my opimion, it's quoting the actual ONS data that uses the medical opinion of those who actually issued the death certificate.

What are you basing your view on the number of deaths on?

a reply to: ScepticScot

You don't think its strange that the number of deaths registered with Covid as the cause is higher than the number of people who've died within 28 days of a positive test? When you consider all hospital and care home patients are tested regularly i think that in itself tells a story. We managed to blame covid for over 10,000 deaths of people who never had a positive test.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The BS is suggesting the figures are under reported. The healthcare industry is one of the few with everything to gain from inflation of the figures, it also happens to be the industry responsible for those very numbers.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

You don't think its strange that the number of deaths registered with Covid as the cause is higher than the number of people who've died within 28 days of a positive test? When you consider all hospital and care home patients are tested regularly i think that in itself tells a story.

As I already mentioned there was a serious lack of testing early on on the pandemic so many deaths would not have been included.

Also if someone dies from complications arising from covid but more than 28 days after last test they would not be included.

I

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

The BS is suggesting the figures are under reported. The healthcare industry is one of the few with everything to gain from inflation of the figures, it also happens to be the industry responsible for those very numbers.

How does the NHS or the ONS benefit from the inflation of covid deaths?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Total Deaths 2020: 695,800
Covid Deaths 2020: 135,000

That means deaths from other causes in the UK in 2020 totalled roughly 560,000 which is way below the 10 year average.

Now i'm sold on lockdown, locking us all up clearly increases quality and length of life and decreases all other causes of death despite the degradation of healthcare and society. I wonder what happened to all those extra suicide and overdoses etc. Not to mention the DNR orders issued during the early stages of the pandemic and the massive reduction in surgeries. Clearly these things all stop death contrary to what logic tells us.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Funding, increase budgets, upgraded equipment, extra staff, beds, pay rises etc etc.

Was it a 4% rise the nurses in Scotland received this year?

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

Total Deaths 2020: 695,800
Covid Deaths 2020: 135,000

That means deaths from other causes in the UK in 2020 totalled roughly 560,000 which is way below the 10 year average.

Now i'm sold on lockdown, locking us all up clearly increases quality and length of life and decreases all other causes of death despite the degradation of healthcare and society. I wonder what happened to all those extra suicide and overdoses etc. Not to mention the DNR orders issued during the early stages of the pandemic and the massive reduction in surgeries. Clearly these things all stop death contrary to what logic tells us.

You haven't listed source but if you look at the ONS figures for England and Wales the non covid deaths are 99% of the 5 year average.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: ScepticScot

Funding, increase budgets, upgraded equipment, extra staff, beds, pay rises etc etc.

Was it a 4% rise the nurses in Scotland received this year?

So is this a mass conspiracy amongst medical professionals? Clearly didn't work in England where nurses got 1%.

I think if your theory relies on thousands of medical professionals lying about cause of death in the vague hope of getting a slightly better wage increase then maybe it isn't built on the most solid of foundations.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The 695,000 came from the governments website however i can't find it again. According to the ONS for England and Wales:
www.ons.gov.uk...

Year / Total Deaths
2020 608,002
2019 530,841
2018 541,589
2017 533,253
2016 525,048
2015 529,655

2015-2019
5 Year Average
532,077.2

2020
Total Deaths: 608,002
Covid Deaths: 135,000
Other Deaths: 473,002

I reckon that's around a 12% reduction in deaths if you take deaths as a direct result of Covid out of the equation.

a reply to: ScepticScot

No, i think if you're looking and testing for something then you tend to find it.