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what is proof exactly?

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posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 10:10 PM
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i was thinking the other day and wanted to type my thoughts out before i forget and that is for decades we had photos, videos, ground traces, radar, witness testimony, govt docs, leaked info, and govt officials testimony and none of that is considered proof by alot of people, so is there proof? well i was talking to a friend and he told me the proof is tied up in sap programs (special access program) or something like that and he said its certain facilities where they house all the alien technology for study and since its special access only a few govt officials have access along with mainly engineers and security people and its been that way for decades, no presidents, no congress people, no senators, not even people that run other secret programs, so as you can see we have a very difficult hill to climb, its understandable to hide technical know how but to hide the truth of the reality of alien presence is not necessary any longer imo mainly because most of us already know and we just want our govt to organize itself properly and openly to the american people so we can engage this reality together to the best of our abilities

people have said why do we need govt confirmation? imo the govt has most of the best info on the matter, besides the sap programs they have the best equipment in the world along with the apparatus for it so theyre usually the first on the scene but most importantly they are the targets of alien surveilence, they are watching our space activities, our training missions, war zones, our nuclear facilities, individuals, etc. the aliens have powerful capabilities that we have no understanding of, they tend to show up wherever our military is

considering all of this im hoping that they will at least show us the better videos and photos of the ufos and at least give congress a thorough briefing of the history and current standing of our govts engagement with this presence, make no mistake about it, lue, chris, harry, tom, john, eric, bob we cant forget bob, etc. will go down as true patriots for their heroic efforts to bring this subject out in the sunlight for the american people, hopefully one day full access will occur we truth seekers wouldnt have any other way

so what do yall think about this? do we have a chance at disclosure? will they keep attempting to hide it for more decades? or this is all hogwash that can explained away? please discuss down below



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 10:11 PM
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Throwing a dead alien up on my kitchen table would be proof to me...just saying.



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: saskwatch

Ah, philosophy!

I think that we are all in for more of the same. Hang tight and know that you're loved and not bad or wrong to hold certain beliefs. In fact, as Aristotle said, it is the sign of an intelligent mind to entertain a thought without accepting it. Therefore, I argue that proof only exists when there is noetic and/or empirical evidence to support the existence of said proof, if that made sense.


William James, the father of American psychology has a nice theory of religion that sums the points on the ineffable and noetic components of religious experiences (which I am going to compare to UFO's and aliens, since many describe such events as being spiritual in nature--yes, I realize this might be a fallacy of generalization, but it is for the sake of my hypothetical argument
edit on 16-3-2021 by rukia because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 10:35 PM
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a reply to: saskwatch

Using your same argument: for decades we’ve had great cameras and camcorders and for the last couple of decades, phones with cameras and video-recorders on them, and still we have nothing but blurry and questionable photos and videos of “craft.” And no pictures or videos of ET. With the number of people around the world all these years, shouldn’t we have one or two clear undeniable photos or videos of ET or ET craft?? So why don’t we?



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
Throwing a dead alien up on my kitchen table would be proof to me...just saying.

Preferably pre-cooked

"I used to want to believe"


edit on 3/16/21 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 11:21 PM
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I think that governments are going to hide it... the evidence... then hide it... and hide it...

Until they can't because the aliens themselves make their presence known to us.

Well, maybe not to "us" because we might all be dead then. But to the kids. Or their kids. At some point in the future.



posted on Mar, 16 2021 @ 11:50 PM
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I figure that the Government will continue to hide Any information they come across.
Because, well it’s the U.S Government.

It does seem odd that other countries and
their governments have been sharing their
UFO info with their people.

I still have faith that someday something
tangible will be revealed to us.
But I expect it to come directly from
Government leaks or the Aliens themselves.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 04:01 AM
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a reply to: saskwatch



photos, videos, ground traces, radar, witness testimony, govt docs, leaked info, and govt officials testimony and none of that is considered proof by alot of people, so is there proof?


Testimonies are not proof. Ambiguous photos, videos, ground traces, radar info etc are not proof either.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 04:13 AM
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a reply to: saskwatch

I realized awhile back that there is absolutely no video or picture that could turn me into a 100% believer.

It's just not possible. Regardless of how good the pic/video is, I will always have doubts, unless I actually see the proof up close and personal with my own eyes.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 04:44 AM
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Lets just say there has been no proof to date that can make anyone sure of anything, there has been ambiguous things but no proof.

I put it like this, if you showed a jury all the reasons 'aliens have visited earth' there is no way you would get a result.

At the same time, there is no proof that other lifeforms exist on other planets although it is statistically likely.

I dont think we have been visited (I would like to be wrong) and I do think there is other life 'out there' but that is all there is, your opinion, no facts, no indisputable evidence, nothing that would stand up to a cross examination by the best lawyers and a jury.

So yeah, until they walk amongst us and the press, the scientists and communities meet them, if I am not lucky enough myself, then I never will believe they have visited, yes I really wish they have, but I will not confuse or cloud my wishes with facts and proof, nothing I have seen says to me they have visited.

Why not put it to the ATS owners or start a go fund me to hire the 2 best lawyers to go head to head in a televised court trial to try and convince a jury? Would make some good TV!!
edit on 17 3 2021 by Forensick because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 05:26 AM
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a reply to: Forensick




Why not put it to the ATS owners or start a go fund me to hire the 2 best lawyers to go head to head in a televised court trial to try and convince a jury?

Stephen Bassett organized a "Citizen Hearing on Disclosure" in front of former members of the U. S. Congress back in 2013 but that was mostly a dog and pony show , the problem is that any real information that may exist regarding UFOs and / or Aliens is so highly classified under the National Security umbrella that no court or even President can get access to it.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 06:43 AM
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originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: saskwatch



photos, videos, ground traces, radar, witness testimony, govt docs, leaked info, and govt officials testimony and none of that is considered proof by alot of people, so is there proof?


Testimonies are not proof. Ambiguous photos, videos, ground traces, radar info etc are not proof either.


I consider military radar of fast flying and unknown objects quite some evidence. Unless of course you can't trust everyone who worked in the radar room, plus every pilot who witnessed them and then the whole military as liars.
I also find commercial pilot's accounts as legit, because there is so much on the line for them and if they don't know what is weird in the sky, who else does?

It is easy to sit in an armchair and say 'it's all a lie, everything, because I don't believe it' but I personally have had 3 very real sightings that I cannot explain [all three vastly different and completely amazing and so far unexplainable] and I am thorough and try to think of rational explanations first. heck, I am the one on YT that tells people off for being gullible. But as a retired scientist, I can also NOT say that everything is always wrong because I don't want it to be.

There are UFOs in the strictest meaning of the word [Unknown flying objects] and there are some that have caused the military to become worried [not just the US military btw.]. So worried that they have now renamed UFOs to UAPs [Unknown areal phenomena] as if they are a real possibility and need a less tinfoil hat description.
Of course this could be a ploy of the military for something, but this ploy involves many decades and many countries, including your enemy's.
Boy, your military and all pilots must be so much dumber than you, and they are in charge of large planes and nuclear weapons.
Best to apply for their jobs with your superior knowledge. They'll snatch you up.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: saskwatch

Eye witness testimony is considered proof in a court of law, so why wouldn't it apply to UFO/et? There are many accounts from whistleblowers especially from various branches of the military (not just USA but many other countries also), there are also many credible civilian testimony. There are a ton of photos and videos out there that aren't so blurry. Take a good look around the internet and you will find them, just use discernment in your viewing by knowing that there are CGI photos and videos or hoaxs out there. If you view some.videos that are known fakes take notice about what looks fake or wrong in it. Study up on basic CGI so you can spot potential fakes.

That being said, there are many videos and photos all over the internet that are absolutely real with no fu*kery afoot. Some of the craft could be ours or could be extra terrestrial, extra dimensional or ultra terrestrial etc. There is so much out there if you want to get to the truth, as I said before use discernment and trust your gut when viewing or reading something. Some stories sound.absolutely outrageous and people dismiss them right away, when you hear some of these more "far out" testimonies ask yourself "does this person really have anything to gain by putting this out there?" Other then being ridiculed and probably no financial gain these people just want to share their stories and often times point out they aren't trying to convert people to believe them but simply put their story out there and let you decide what the truth is.

Some groups get criticized because they take donations or charge money to go do an outdoor event with them. I personally don't see an issue with this because, when you dedicate your life and time digging up information, doing presentations for conferences and outdoor excursions etc... Then how would you make money to continue this work at the level some of these people do? If you get a fulltime job and also have a family to take care of then how much time could you actually put into UFO/ET and government involvement subjects? Check out Dr. Steven Greer on YouTube or his website. Also his documentaries "Sirius", " Unacknowledged " (very eye opening and it discusses SAP's and USAP's (unacknowledged special access programs) its a must see for sure. And "Close encounters of the 5th kind) which is also great. People like Emery Smith, Bob Lazzar, Sargent Clifford Stone (RIP), astronaut Edgar Mitchell, Phil Schneider, David Adair, Corey Goode, Tony Rodriguez, Niera (sp?) Isley, Philip corsco, Tom Bearden, and super soldier stuff (a lot of it is secret space program related) . fact is there are a ton of whistle blowers on these subjects and other paranormal things and a lot about hidden technology. Technology which could cure people and help clean the environment and includes things like antigravitics, zero point energy, medical healing devices and meta materials.

I know I'm gonna get a lot of crap because of the people I listed above. I've done many many hours of research and find these people and many others very credible despite the governments professional " debunkers" and disinformation agents and people that believe we are the only intelligent conscious beings in our Galaxy. Point is trust your gut and don't dismiss something or someone that may sound "out there" at first, at least hear what they have to say. Research as much as possible and come to your own conclusions on what is credible and real.

Good OP s&f. Hope some of this helps!





posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: saskwatch

Using your same argument: for decades we’ve had great cameras and camcorders and for the last couple of decades, phones with cameras and video-recorders on them, and still we have nothing but blurry and questionable photos and videos of “craft.” And no pictures or videos of ET. With the number of people around the world all these years, shouldn’t we have one or two clear undeniable photos or videos of ET or ET craft?? So why don’t we?


not to forget the surveillance cameras everywhere, the satellites, the iss, astronomers. a species that is technologically superior to us allows us to examine their dead/living ones, to appropriate their technology and allows only the military to know of their existence... that makes no sense. and the military itself takes the invasion of its own airspace rather casually, which is rather strange by american standards. ufology has long since become a kind of religion. i want to believe but its hard.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: saskwatch

People seem to overlook the most logical answer as to why we still haven't got proof of the existence of aliens.

They are none.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: saskwatch

People seem to overlook the most logical answer as to why we still haven't got proof of the existence of aliens.

They are none.



or they are long gone or just about to grow up.
maybe someone out there knows about us but don't contact us because we are an aggressive species.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:32 AM
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UFO's are documented regularly. Doesn't mean they are not from earth. Just that they aren't immediately identifiable.

Actual Aliens? Yeah that would be hard. I suppose if an entire fleet surrounded Earth that would be proof. Just one saucer showing up somewhere with one or two beings still would not really be immediate proof.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:41 AM
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originally posted by: oloufo

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: saskwatch

People seem to overlook the most logical answer as to why we still haven't got proof of the existence of aliens.

They are none.



or they are long gone or just about to grow up.
maybe someone out there knows about us but don't contact us because we are an aggressive species.



I have little doubt that there are alien lifeforms all over the universe. With such a large number of planets it's hard to imagine that life hasn't developed somewhere else.

That being said.
The distances are impossible to overcome for visiting alien worlds unless they use some sort of warp or space bending technology.

If they have that level of technology it's very unlikely they would crash in Roswell.



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: saskwatch
well i was talking to a friend and he told me the proof is tied up in sap programs (special access program) or something like that and he said its certain facilities where they house all the alien technology for study and since its special access only a few govt officials have access along with mainly engineers and security people and its been that way for decades, no presidents, no congress people, no senators, not even people that run other secret programs, so as you can see we have a very difficult hill to climb, its understandable to hide technical know how but to hide the truth of the reality of alien presence is not necessary any longer imo mainly because most of us already know and we just want our govt to organize itself properly and openly to the american people so we can engage this reality together to the best of our abilities


If it's that secret, how does he know that?
Does he have any proof?



posted on Mar, 17 2021 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: saskwatch

Best answer I can give to the title of your thread is.

Whatever you accept as true.

Reality is subjective and so often is proof.

We claim we live in reality but every individual is different, not only are every persons own eye's slightly different from every other person but so too is there brain and the other senses that feed into it.

Someone whom is not colour blind may still see colour slightly differently to someone else that is not colour blind.

The specific nerves that you pick up vibrations from the air and recognize as sound are also slightly different to the person right next to you.

Generally our senses are close enough that we live in a shared reality were broadly speaking we recognize common ground in all our experiences.

So Proof of a UFO would be something undeniable and that fits into a common reality as proof of that thing outside of the known reality that could only be related to a UFO.

In a court case opinion and date form so called fact's and in reality since we have to live in this shared reality we have to accept fact as fact even if we suspect our reality itself may be far more complex and dynamic than we are comfortable accepting.

For me it would be a mass sighting with accompanying physical evidence such as photographic and material.




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