Revealing Facts About Slavery - Thomas Sowell.

originally posted by: Doxanoxa
a reply to: karl 12

A wild thought.

Is the current thrust of identifying slavery as a primarily 'black' experience, and the emphasis on looking backwards at historic artifacts perceived as relating to slavery actually a huge, orchistrated, misdirection to protect the current business of slavery?

As Sowell says

"There are an estimated 27 million men, women, and children in the world who are enslaved — physically confined or restrained and forced to work, or controlled through violence, or in some way treated as property.

Therefore, there are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade [11 million total, and about 450,000, or about 4% of the total, who were brought to the United States]. The modern commerce in humans rivals illegal drug trafficking in its global reach—and in the destruction of lives".

Seems to me there is a lot to be gained by some player/s from having us look the other way, and not look to closely at what is happening today.

That is a very astute observation, especially considering all of the child/sex/human trafficking ring busts (internationally) that have been picking up in frequency & severity over the past few years (to be clear, I don't have stats to back that statement up but I can tell you in MY lifetime, following the same sources for current events as I always have, I've seen a lot more of these stories since 2018 to present day)

a reply to: karl 12

"There are an estimated 27 million men, women, and children in the world who are enslaved — physically confined or restrained and forced to work, or controlled through violence, or in some way treated as property."

Actually, if you check the UN Abolition of Slavery Treaty, that practically every civilized nation signed, you find out quickly that they are all breaking the treaty. Indentured Slavery is considered to be just as illegitimate as any other kind of slavery, since you are bound in place by taxation and extortion.

I think the number of indentured slaves is closer to the global population number.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
Wikipedia has a pretty good article on slavery in medieval Europe.

WIKI LINK

The Irish as slaves is an interesting and controversial subject.

Slavery had been practiced in Ireland for centuries before a Welsh slave in the 5th century got away, spent some years in France and then returned to achieve a mass conversion among the Irish to become Saint Patrick. Brocca, another slave of the Irish, was the father of Saint Brigit. Dublin was a major slave market, especially after the Vikings came and renovated the town into an efficient port. It must be added, however, that slavery was a looser system in those days, and servitude, whether to Irishman, Roman, Norseman or Norman, did not necessarily mean servitude for life.

Historynet LINK

Irish and slavery is an interesting and two edged sword.

The patron Saint of Ireland St Patrick was a Romano British youth kidnapped by Irish Slavers whom raided Britain and took him and many other's hostage, taken to Ireland he was sold at the slave market and after some time and after learning the culture and language of his captors he escaped but later returned as a missionary to convert them to Christianity.

But Slavery in Ireland has a long history.
en.wikipedia.org...
www.irishtimes.com...

All nation's, all peoples are equally guilty, it is no less appalling because of this and we can look back on those of the past with anger and shame, but it must be a shared shame as no side is innocent in this crime of the past and a crime that is still going on even in the so called civilized world behind closed doors and yes exactly as rickymouse point's out modern Debt Slavery.

As well as the Chinese employing slavery which they most definitely do so too do many modern mega corporations and all so that they can both produce there good's for next to nothing and then sell them for hundreds of times what they cost to make.

Imagine if you had to work long hours in a factor for just Seven dollars a month.

Not only is this Slavery using poverty as the chains to hold the slaves in there place of captivity but it is also a way of impoverishing the west by taking those job's that SHOULD be well paid to a place were they can get people to work for nothing, this is unregulated market economics at work.

The same economics' always drove slavery in the past as well.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Not only is this Slavery using poverty as the chains to hold the slaves in there place of captivity but it is also a way of impoverishing the west by taking those job's that SHOULD be well paid to a place were they can get people to work for nothing, this is unregulated market economics at work.

The same economics' always drove slavery in the past as well.

It's called expropriation of labor ... and it's a result of. Care to take a guess?

Glad someone brought this up re: slavery in all ages. Don’t know if someone has brought this up, but the word ’slave’ was derived from the forced servitude of the Slavs who were middle European (i.e. white). The Norse (Vikings) had slaves from those they conquered – 99.9% white. But the Norse had strict codes of conduct for slave owners regarding treatment, punishment, etc. And their slaves could work towards their freedom and become members of the community – land owners, shop keepers, members of the ruling class.

All those today calling for reparations should first ask the Egyptians, Babylonians, Mesopotamians who enslaved blacks for at least 1,000 yrs. before whites were even aware blacks existed.

Or maybe just talk to Harris – Her father is on record that his ancestor had a plantation with over 200 black slaves.

Yah. That’ll go over well. Must’ve been Trumps ancestors.

a reply to: karl 12


Ummm...personally...I think it is unconscionable...that we should even focus on some past historical examples of slavery...hundreds of years dead...and pander to it as if it still had any life beyond the ever present in your face provocation that it has morphed into...

When you contrast the above with current human trafficking and slavery...practiced for and by the elite...the depraved...and the corporatist...then all perspective shatters at the feet of realism...

So...frankly...when the conversation about real cases of slavery in 2021...can be spoken to in the same fervor and eloquence...then...I’m sorry...I’ll have to turn my nose at historical references...centuries dead...and belonging to former era’s...









YouSir

originally posted by: YouSir


I think it is unconscionable...that we should even focus on some past historical examples of slavery...hundreds of years dead...and pander to it as if it still had any life beyond the ever present in your face provocation that it has morphed into...

a reply to: karl 12

The point being slavery has always existed, enabled by those with the money and power to get away with it. And sadly, I don't believe it will ever stop.

edit on 11-3-2021 by Hoser793 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-3-2021 by Hoser793 because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: Klassified

Few people want to hear the truth of this. They aren't open to it and would rather stay ignorant.

Suppose that's up to them mate but it really does make you wonder why that is (and you know what they say about people who ignore history).

originally posted by: Klassified

Here is one of them...

Fascinating video and thanks for posting it - had heard of the Ottoman Corsair slave trade before but genuinely wasn't aware of the immense scale of it.

Apparently the U.S. sent Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams as ambassadors to the slaver nations involved and when Jefferson became president he stopped the paying of tribute money to them (20% of gross national product) using the same funds to invest in the building of the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps.

Seems the resulting 'Tripoli war' (along with everything else) has been completely scrubbed from the historical syllabus although it still pops up in a few U.S. Marine Corp songs.

See 3:10

Incidentally, when it comes to those responsible for subverting the U.S. education system (especially in the subject of History) then there's a great interview here with Norman Dodd who was the head researcher for the Congressional Reese Commitee tasked with investigating non profit, tax exempt foundations.

Cheers.

I'm not sure why this would make BLM supporters uncomfortable.

"But that is not the message that is being taught in our schools and colleges, or dramatized on television and in the movies. The message pounded home again and again is that white people enslaved black people."

And they did. And its part of our countries history. So, as a white man, I can't let that be thrown under the rug. This isn't a "well its happened to others so.." situation.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Ireland is a Celtic nation.

Slavery was an integral part of Celtic society.

Slavery was/is an integral part of many, many cultures from all parts of the world throughout human history.....but of course its only the African slave trade that we are taught to be ashamed about.
And even then we are supposed to ignore what is to many an uncomfortable fact that lots of Africans played an active and prominent role in that slave trade and made relatively huge amounts of money out of other Africans misery.

Slavery is an abhorrent practice no matter what shape or form it takes place or by whom or when.

But we shouldn't be selective in our abhorrence and we really should be careful about using current morals and sensitivities when judging historical facts and events etc.

originally posted by: Meshakhad
I'm not sure why this would make BLM supporters uncomfortable.

There is nothing special being offspring of slaved people, its normal

a reply to: karl 12

The plan for today is based on selective truths being released so that the official Narrative may be used like a battering ram. Add in the dumbing down of many of American children and the lie is so easy to spread. LeBron tells them what's the "truth" and they "just know" in their hearts he is a basketball god and must be telling them the truth.

Slavery never stopped in Asia, nor Africa, Europe and the America's. It went underground and the media has been their pals.

a reply to: AcerM

Here's what is different about African-Americans:

1. Most African-Americans are the descendants of slaves. Few whites are.

2. The system of slavery in the New World was arguably worse than almost any other. In particular, there was no legitimate way for a slave to become free. In Muslim society, slaves could become free through conversion to Islam, while Roman slaves were frequently able to work for wages on their own time, and could eventually earn enough capital to buy their own freedom. But slaves in the US did not have any path to freedom save escaping or the generosity of their masters - and the second path was soon cut off in the South, as most states passed laws against manumission.

3. In addition to slavery, they also suffered close to a century of systematic persecution even after being freed.

a reply to: Meshakhad

WRONG almost ALL Whites have slaves as ancestors, the difference there is that most white slaves were a little bit further back in time and called Serf's, the lord of the mansion house had the right to rape there woman, to kill them on a whim, to force them to work his land and actually owned them, as for segregation, it was a long time after the end of serfdom (internal European slavery) before the common (Serf) man had the right to vote or even the right to a fair wage and in many country's it was only in the 20th century that they finally received it .

During the Atlantic slave period not as many but some of those slaves were from Europe, they may have been treated better but if they escaped they could expect the same level of cruelty and punishment, even old George Washington set out to capture some escaped white slaves he had, indentured servitude is what they called it and while some of those indentured servants would work toward there freedom for many it was for life.

People are people.

In fact many of the European American's were fleeing poverty (being for the most part descendants of Serfdom's slaves) and so there enslaved ancestors are just a few hundred years before those of the black Americans.

The difference is down to culture, the fact that for the most part the White people's were free in the US - after the bill of right's, but when was that ever truly honoured - while the black's were brought in as slaves and so not given any rights until old Abraham Lincoln (Trump's Party back then) a WHITE CHRISTIAN president voted into office by WHITE VOTERS fought against the breakaway states (That were under the control of a tiny elite whom had made vast fortunes out of working slaves often to death - Biden's party today though the confederates were a ran by a breakaway group that refused to accept the Senate passed laws that freed the slaves - so not just Lincoln but the Majority of the white senators wanted an end to Slavery) that wanted to keep the slavery which Lincoln (And therefore the majority NON slave owning white population that voted him into power) abolished.

The problem is that the confederacy never really went away, if you look at Canadian black people descended from escaped slaves you will find Canadians and that is it but if you look at Black American's there lives could not be more different.

And part of the blame for that is down to the black community itself.

Gangbangers (yes some of them may have began as self defence against KKK sicko's but not all)
Drug Dealers (goes hand in hand with the Gang Bangers but it was not always like that, back in the 1950's the US black community's were growing ever richer and more influential and powerful with that wealth, someone in the CIA probably a descendant of one of those plantation owners did not like that so they flooded the black community's with drug's in the 70's and 80's and this led to the epidemic collapse of black American society, this was NOT White America but a group of highly placed scum bag's that turned 'at least' one of the US intelligence agency's to serving there own goal, they probably justified it by pointing out the more left leaning (Far right of today though) politics of Black America at that time.

Not all states in the US are the same, Not all community's white or black are the same even in any given state.

People are ALL tribal by nature, we are all shallow hal's, we see and we judge by what we see because we are most of us BLIND.

People are people, imagine if everyone was blind and they all grew up together.

Not this is funny but it is also very valid and makes a good point.



Now lets see how Racism has become endemic to black society, not every black person and not every white person is even remotely racist but some, enough ARE.


Government's are pouring hundreds of millions if not billions into teaching white kid's not to be racist, into forcing company's to take on black workers in order to show they are not discriminating.

But NO one is teaching the black kid's not to be racist and that is a serious problem.

It begins with looking at yourself and asking yourself Am I Biased.

There are good people in every nation and bad.

a reply to: LABTECH767


It's not unregulated market economics.

The places where the slave labor takes place are state controlled economies for the most part. China is hardly an unregulated market, and if you think it is, then you have a poor idea of what that means.

The main difference is that China just doesn't care about its labor force since its people have no recognized legal rights the ways workers in Western nations do.

a reply to: ketsuko

Fair point IF I HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT SLAVERY IN GENERAL but I was actually talking about wage slavery and serfdom, serfs whom worked to survive taxed of all they made either by the lord who owned the land or the church and made never enough to get out of there drudgery up eventually to the industrial revolution and beyond, child slavery was still common even into Victorian England were children were forced to do task's that were too small for adults such as running into an active loom - big machines actually.

Or down coal mines, it was most definitely unregulated as the only thing the owners had to worry about was a modest tax overhead and workers had no right's.

So Unregulated capitalism, sorry to disagree but I really have to as it's a historically accurate point.

And if you owed a debt back then and could not pay on time it was off to the debtors prison and later the workhouse especially if you were poor were you were effectively property of the workhouse for the rest of your life and had to work to eat.

Unregulated capitalism is about exploitation and milking the employee for as much as you can by paying as little as you can and making them work for more hours with less rights under the heading of "BOOSTING PRODUCTIVITY", it is also about milking the economy of as much money into private wealthy bank account's as possible and over turn's the principle of democracy by giving the extreme minority of unelected corporate heads more power than any elected government has.

Regulated capitalism is fine, workers had right's, rest break's, can not be forced to work public holiday's or too many hours and the company's that employ them are answerable to them under law if they break that employment contract.
In a regulated capitalist society such as OLD Britain the corporations, big business, bank's, the wealthy and the upper middle class are never happy because they have to pay slightly more tax, there property investments are less lucrative as the money goes to build public housing and pay for the sick but the working class that form the bulk of the population are cared for.

That only lasted something like 15 or so years after WW2 because by the 1960's doctors were prioritizing the care of the working age over that of the elderly and there were many problems with the way the NHS paid it's staff such as dentists being paid by how many fillings the put into people every year which led to unnecessary dental work and ruined teeth for ten's of millions of British people but in general the principle that everyone was entitled to top quality care was and is a good and correct one, after all you need a healthy population to drive the economy.

Other flaws of the right wing are the abolition of a family allowance, instead of boosting the economy, investing in education, training schemes for the young and free education up to university level for British citizens the Tory's (and New Labour - AKA Fake Labour whom are really just left wing Tory's) saw the young as a nuisance especially the poor working class young and wanted to cull the population over time so as part of there social cleansing policy's they abolished much of the aid to the poor, removed family allowance for anything more than two children (An unsustainable number for our economy), removing free education and let's remember since long before old Thatcher took the milk off the kid's then had to back down due to public fury they have wanted to see the nuisance poor culled,. And yet in an aging population we need MORE children to be born so they are bringing in bloody foreigners to fill the gap in the labour market, only a paucity of workers has had any wages staying somewhat reasonable but in real terms they have fallen relative to inflation since the 1980's for most people while they have kept pace and indeed outpaced the rate of inflation many times over for white collar workers and higher executives whom have been continuously giving themselves a pat on the back for robbing that money off of there own workers.

I could go on and on and on.

But that is OUR politics and I stand by my point which is I believe you will find actually deadly accurate, unregulated capitalism leads to exploitation of the worker and what is slavery if not exploitation of the worker, put a seventeenth century coat over it and that is what capitalism if left to it's own devices would do.

Ever hear of the fight for the rights of the British Freemen.

First what is a Free Man, someone that is not a serf, even the monarch does not own a freeman yet did you know that in Britain you are owned by the crown as a Subject if you are not a freeman, did you know you are still technically a serf.

Looking down with a snooty look, actually I am a descendant of Aristocracy and the youngest son of Lady Alice Hallworth-Fegan (Fegan being a deed poll name her father took him being an old time spy master and my mother was robbed of her inheritance with someone even stealing her title) so - ahh hmm, that would of course suggest rather strongly that I am legally a freeman.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I'm sorry, but my point still stands.

Slavery, as modern slavery shows, exists in defiance of regulated or unregulated capitalism. It is its own separate beast that grows out of a flagrant disregard for human beings as individuals worthy of rights. Both command economies and free market capitalist economies are guilty of that sin, so it should be noted that neither is better or worse at it and thus neither is or could be called a causal factor.

a reply to: ketsuko

Sorry but you are still wrong, exploitation of the worker and I am not a Marxist though I do hold that some of this theory was correct but not all by any mean's and he simply plagiarized earlier thinkers.

The Exploitation of Labour as cheaply as possible is a fundamental part of the production process to boost productivity and maximize profits by cutting overheads, in other word's wage slavery which has always existed and slavery in general flourish more under an unregulated capitalist model.

As for communism why bring that abomination up that is just everyone but the party being a slave, the state OWNS you in that system, for that matter it own's you in this one as well.


Actually being a Christian I don't really want to be invested in this world too heavily, we have another home as you know and all our political ideas and beliefs are irrelevant there.
and scientifically speaking quantum micro tubules in the synapses of the brain suggest we ARE a quantum sentience, that is even if one body dies we live on especially if there are parallel reality's as we span more than one contiguously existing across multiple reality's which also explains that old Mandela affect thing.

Modern slavery is still the abuse of another human being for the benefit/profit of those that are exploiting them so your argument does not stand on that point, still it is a very good point.

Sorry to everyone if I wandered off in my context as political factors differ by nation and region as well.

Communism IS slavery but the difference is the entire nation is enslaved by the so called Party which is by definition really an imperial or monarchical system with the so called Chairman being the king, his will is almost always law in a communist state, take the Dynasty in charge of north Korea they are even more an analogue of am imperial or royal family and in fact deified by there system and there people with shrines and monuments to them and China still worships Mao despite his butchery, child abuse, genocide and disdain for his own people.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Wage slavery is not chattel slavery. It is not appropriate to conflate the two. For one thing, if you're in a so-called wage slave job and being exploited, it takes two to tango. A worker's willingness to remain employed is part and parcel of the deal.

Chattel slavery which is what this topic is all about is a system where you are held in bondage against your will and compelled to labor or do whatever else your master/owner desires.

There is a world of difference between those two states no matter what you may think.