It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The first 10,000 days on Mars.. Starting sooner than most would think

page: 1
12
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 03:35 AM
link   
The following video is of the first 10,000 days of a Mars colony establishment and growth. The plans are very ambitious and there are plenty of areas where things could go wrong in my opinion but still this is going to be an exciting time for colonization with success or failure. The first 80 people will be there for around two years as most of them will return to earth when their replacements are in place. The settlement plans are for day 9418 to have 300,423 people living and breeding on mars .. With Mars only having about 38% of Earth's gravity I would say those who are born on Mars would and will not enjoy a return to mother earth.youtu.be...


A little more on a possible future youtu.be...

edit on 727thk21 by 727Sky because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 05:56 AM
link   
a reply to: 727Sky

I think one of the most interesting facts about going to Mars (which many do not understand) is the fact that when the first people get to Mars, if it sucks, they can't just turn around and come back. Anyone who goes to Mars is stuck there for roughly 2+ years. I don't think a lot of people understand this.

Mars is not like the Moon. In other words, it does not orbit Earth like the Moon does, it orbits the Sun, just like Earth does. But the rate at which Mars orbits the Sun is different than the rate at which Earth orbits the Sun. So, while the journey to Mars only takes about 6 months (on a good day), the day you arrive at Mars the Earth is on the opposite side of the Sun from where you are. So you can't just make a U-turn and return back home because 'home' is now 3x further away than it was when you started your journey.
edit on 3/8/2021 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 06:20 AM
link   
a reply to: 727Sky

Note - I hadn't completed watching the 1st video when I wrote this. The only thing I'd add is...I think that's pretty optimistic.

In the context of your OP, I don't think a lot of folks understand the commitment it takes to go to Mars.

Once on Mars, they HAVE to survive there for at least 2 years! Anything less is not an option, they have no other choice. And no space ship capable of traveling to Mars is going to be capable of supporting life for that period of 2 years either. Even the ISS can only go about 6 months or so (max) without re-supply (and trash removal).

So, people who want to go to Mars are going to have to REALLY want to go there, and REALLY love Mars once they get there, because they ain't coming back to Earth for 2.5 years.

Personally, I don't think humans going to Mars will happen in our lifetime. I don't think it will happen until there is a major breakthrough in travel velocities. And, while this may happen in our lifetime, I don't think it will involve human beings.

I'm surprised actually that there is so much emphasis on sending humans to Mars. Seems to me a more logical progression would be to send some android like machines there first to establish a habitable place first, and then once this is established then send humans.
edit on 3/8/2021 by Flyingclaydisk because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 06:41 AM
link   
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk


Personally, I don't think humans going to Mars will happen in our lifetime. I don't think it will happen until there is a major breakthrough in travel velocities. And, while this may happen in our lifetime, I don't think it will involve human beings.

Correct, I don't see this happening any time soon. There are big obstacles left to overcome, not the least of which is a global crisis in the making which may get very nasty before it's over. Going to Mars any time in the near future is likely a one-way ticket.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 07:05 AM
link   
a reply to: Klassified

The date for the first 5 ships to land was April 2025.
That's four years from now and they haven't even got a rocket anywhere near ready to even reach orbit...or land...lol



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 07:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Klassified

The date for the first 5 ships to land was April 2025.
That's four years from now and they haven't even got a rocket anywhere near ready to even reach orbit...or land...lol


I'm not surprised. Space flight as we have known it in the past will never make us a space-faring species. Unless they plan on unveiling that "secret space program" we've all heard so much about in the near future, colonizing Mars is wishful thinking for this generation.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 07:18 AM
link   
a reply to: Bluntone22

And one of the other things which is kind of overlooked in the 1st video is...landing on Mars is hard! It's a lot harder than landing on the Moon. The Moon has no atmosphere. Mars does have atmosphere, but it's much less dense than the Earth's atmosphere. So, atmospheric braking doesn't work as well on Mars as it does on Earth, but unlike the Moon it does work 'some'. This presents all sorts of landing issues.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 07:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Terrific point FCD; here is a graphic simulation to drive home the point you raise.



I had thought a little bit about this problem, and other than simply making faster rockets/ships, one idea that sprung to mind was stashing "emergency space rafts" at Earth-Sun Lagrange Points.

If there were a need to leave Mars in a hurry, traveling back to Earth straight away is simply not an option. The orbital mechanics make this journey feasible only when the orbits of Earth and Mars place the celestial bodies close enough to make the trip. Earth's revolution around the Sun is much faster than Mars, being much close in distance than the Red Planet.

However, if were we to put small space stations at the Earth-Sun Lagrange Points, which were unmanned habitats/supply caches, it would permit Martianauts to make a hasty retreat from Mars, traveling for a rendezvous with one of the space rafts, at which point they would loiter, using up supplies and then moving to each successive raft at the next Lagrange point, until the Earth's orbit had revolved us back around the sun to where we would "pick up" the Martianauts out of space. This way, rather than trying to time the voyage back at the precise moment when Earth and Mars orbital periods align (several years), we would only have to wait for the Earth to return to one of the Lagrange points (a matter of months, depending on where the celestial bodies were when SHTF on Mars). This permits the travelers to abort the mission at any possible moment, and at worst having to use no emergency stations to needing to visit L3, L4 and L5.

I would say an evacuation mechanism like this would probably have a low success rate with the tech we have now, but it would at least be a contingency, if not a risky and costly one (the cost aspect of having a number of ready equipped space stations floating out there ready for potential emergencies probably making this prohibitive). There are many many engineering challenges to this too, some of which we don't have answers to AFAIK (deploying the emergency stations, keeping the emergency stations fixed at the Lagrange points without using too much fuel, enough radiation shielding for keeping humans safe, remotely powering on the station in case of emergency, docking without anyone present on the emergency station, communication back with Earth especially from L3, and plenty more that only NASA can think up).

In the end this may not even be viable even with better equipment and technology, but it was a scheme I cooked up thinking about this barrier, needing to align Earth-Mars orbits to make a return trip from Mars outside the mission schedule.

ETA:

An illustration of the placement in space of the Earth-Sun Lagrange points


edit on 8-3-2021 by SleeperHasAwakened because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 08:03 AM
link   
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

That's actually a pretty darn good idea!

I've noodled on this problem a few times and never came up with any viable solution. Yours is better than any others I've seen.

One of the most troubling things about the whole Mars hubbub thing is, no one seems to be talking about these things (i.e. escaping from Mars). It seems like everyone is focused on Mars being this great place.

Personally, I believe just the psychological barrier alone is enough to keep people from going to Mars...once they understand the realities of it. I think, until you have some viable escape plan in place, no one will ever willingly cross this psychological barrier.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 08:21 AM
link   
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I think that plenty of people will sign up for it actually, simply to make it into the history book regardless of the fact that even Elon himself has said that the first few attempts would probably result in death.

Some people would do it.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 08:27 AM
link   
a reply to: RMFX1

Believe it or not, finding volunteers is going to be the easiest part of this venture.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 08:31 AM
link   
a reply to: Bluntone22

I agree but I also agree with the poster above that it's certainly not happening any time soon. I doubt I'll be around to see it.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 10:29 AM
link   
A little bit more information about the video would have been nice in the OP. Is it science fiction? A proposition? Or an actual project in development?

BTW, I think that for humans to land on Mars with a chance of surviving and going back, there will have to be an infrastructure set up by previous robotic missions, such as establishing habitats, food and resources, and landing a rocket that will take the astronauts back to Earth. Otherwise, there's no way to land people there, unless it's a suicide mission.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 11:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Klassified

The date for the first 5 ships to land was April 2025.
That's four years from now and they haven't even got a rocket anywhere near ready to even reach orbit...or land...lol



Using the sky crane method that Perseverance used could get a minimum of 2,000 pounds of materials and supplies there...probably more. A few supply trips like that and you could easily pre-position 10,000 lbs or more of supplies there for the first Marsonauts. Once economies of scale take over for the supply vehicles, there could be a steady supply of them sent...maybe monthly or so.

Sure, it would be a harsh and spartan environment to live in for at least a few years, but humanity can be very resilient when needed.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 11:48 AM
link   
I don't think there's any shortage of people that would be currently willing to leave Earth and ever come back. Hasn't been that great lately and the future is meh.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 11:48 AM
link   
a reply to: Bluntone22

Well, yeah, people say that, but I firmly believe they say it without a full understanding of the realities. They're all about the fame of it, but when they understand the hardship piece just to even get there, and then what's in store for them once there, I think those volunteers would quickly vanish.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:04 PM
link   
a reply to: wildespace

It's supposed to be in the planning stages so it's not exactly science fiction but the time table is definitely fantasy.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:11 PM
link   
a reply to: peter_kandra

The orbit of the two planets makes monthly visits impossible.
I'm not convinced the venture could ever be economically viable.
Even the 10k pounds you mentioned is only about a thousand gallons of water. The logistics will be a nightmare.
edit on 8-3-2021 by Bluntone22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:33 PM
link   
a reply to: 727Sky

Given that they will be filtered by health, age and intelligence these first settlers to mars will give the colony of the future a great new start.

However they will perhaps still have to face the possibility of hereditary conditions that may slip through the filter, increased radiation exposure and unnatural food - at least until the first farms are producing.

Given this and barring the deleterious affects of radiation some of which they may avoid by going underground they will soon produce a population that will outlive there earth based relatives, over several generations they will adapt to a lower calorie diet as there body's will use less in the lower gravity, they will also likely become taller and given the intelligent seed population also more intelligent by and large though intelligence is usually more down to nutrition and education and of course they WILL have both of those far better than there earth based cousins do as well as calorie controlled diets tailored to there needs in the new environment.

It would be a similar case for denizens of lunar colony's.

The biggest threat being radiation, perhaps at some future time we will learn to regenerate the magnetosphere of mars or to replace it with a wholly artificial one enabling the planet to be fully terraformed and become a smaller but in many ways more desirable world than earth is, the day and night cycle is virtually identical to the earth's but the lack of solar tidal gravitational affects may alter woman's menstrual cycle over time once they are settled there and in time they would likely adapt to the new cycles of the ancient planet.

Intelligence Amplification implants is an idea that scares me, just like some of the earliest science fiction visionary's predicted calculators became a crutch and so too would they, along with there adoption would come mind hacking, mind control and lack of original thought which in time would perhaps even be regarded as deviant behaviour.

The future has both very bright and very dark outcomes.

edit on 8-3-2021 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:38 PM
link   
a reply to: Bluntone22

Even annual visits are not possible.

Twenty six months, minimum.

And, while we're on the 'reality' subject...all those supply ships, well, they better land them REALLY far away from the main settlement. Because when they crash one, and they WILL crash one (or more), the debris and toxic stuff will travel 4x as far from the wreckage as it does on earth. And, what this translates into is a huge logistics problem, because then you'll be looking at transporting all these heavy items for miles across the Martian surface to get back to the settlement site. Anything less and you risk blowing up your whole colony.

Furthermore, they've stated (in the video) that solar panels are 28% less efficient on Mars. Well, this is 28% less efficient than 100% efficient...which is pure fantasy in the real world. Right now, simple dust (not Martian dust) reduces solar panel efficiency by about 50% (unless they are cleaned regularly, which means daily). So now we're talking about 28% less efficient than 50% efficiency, which is only about 35% efficient.

Plus, if this wasn't already bad enough, they've apparently assumed the Marsnauts will be highly efficient themselves. The atmospheric conditions on Mars will likely reduce individual efficiency by about 50%, which means you need 2x as many people to accomplish the same task, or it takes twice as long to complete it.

And then there's the illness angle. Let's say one of these ships launches with a couple hundred people onboard, and after a month or so someone gets sick with a contagious illness. Do you let them land on Mars? Even if no one is still sick by the time they get to Mars 5 months later, you can't risk your whole colony...can you? The travelers may have developed immunity, but the colonists haven't. And what about pathogens which may exist on Mars? They may be frozen, just waiting for the perfect host to come along and activate. To date, no samples of any kind have been returned to Earth to study for these kinds of things, and the experiments which are there now are not capable of doing exhaustive studies on the soil, the air, the water, etc.

The list of obstacles is nearly endless, so much so that the ultimate question of..."Why?"...comes quickly to mind.




top topics



 
12
<<   2 >>

log in

join