First sign of narcissistic abuse: Gaslighting.

"I want my shirt back."
Yip some message somewhere, when you know the shirt cannot be at your house.
I want my money or CDs, or remember that concert we went to, when we never did?
Apparently this glitch in the narcissist happened because they cannot compartmentalize people.

At that stage they may still apologize and withdraw, or somehow change the topic.
Ultimately they can't tell you apart from the next person (where they did leave the shirt), because you're an object to them - like a new toaster.
That objectification of people is an early red flag.

They're watching you (the victim) very closely.
Will you somehow brush over their false accusation?

Will you enter their alternative movie script where they control everything?

Of course later they won't apologize or withdraw.

They will use gaslighting on their victims until they make them insane.

a reply to: halfoldman
I can't help you there, but I understand that the first sign of madness is to have hair growing on the palm of your hand.
The second sign is loooking for it.

(A response to the first version of the OP)

It all takes ages to explain.

Here's a documentary on narcissistic abuse, from the "love-bombing" to the discard and smear campaign phases:

Can narcissism even turn into something like "gang-stalking"?

Oh yeah.

If that narcissist is a powerful person, oh yeah, gang-stalking is not a myth.

The one lady actually told me her boyfriend arrived home with a love-bite.
And then he said she gave it to him!
But astoundingly she doubted her own memory.

Gaslighting - How a Narcissist destroys you by eroding your sanity.

Narcissists are such convincing liars and schemers that I've heard of a shop-owner who called the cops on a thief who just stole a pack of crisps, and the thief told the cops the shop-owner (who had never seen him) stole the crisps from his house the day before.

Now the cop is thinking, maybe it's a personal matter, let them both go.

a reply to: halfoldman

I can't help but wonder if it's a coincidence or synchronicity that prompted you to post this right after the Harry and Meghan interview...

And I wonder, how can people lie like this?

Aha, but we assume everybody has empathy, but some people just don't have it.

Others may be astounded, but I knew somebody just like that, but in a completely different country.

Then they had some rage and ghosted me for completely false reasons.

You can't sleep, thinking but what did I do wrong?

Nothing, you were just a victim of narcissistic personality disorder.

a reply to: Boadicea

LOL, haven't seen it yet, and not here to diagnose anyone.
But I'm on a mission to expose this in society, because innocent people are suffering everywhere, and at any level, knowledge is power.

So if you live with a narcissist what can happen to your mental health?

Walking on eggshells: so anxiety, panic attacks, hyper-vigilance ...

And then you think back - all for that bloody idiot I could have thumped in the nose.
Metaphorically of course.

It's amazing, like kindergarten techniques, but they manage to effectively brainwash you for years.

In my experience, every single one of these losers I've come across (seemingly thousands at this point) ALL are heavy alcoholic/coc aine addicts. Not a "release stress on a weekend" type thing but a "my every waking moment must be directed into me getting high and drunk" type thing.

ALL of them are mentally children who never quite got the memo you're supposed to outgrow some things by your 30s and 40s.

Extreme pettiness, constant need for attention, jealousy and envy to the extreme. Vampiristic. Almost like no soul so they need to feed on others to survive. Constantly worried about what youre doing (for all the wrong reasons). Compulsive lying trying to make themselves appear so awesome and in control...I've seen it all...all the time.

I swear, just being a sovereign person going about your business is never good enough for them. In fact they HATE it.

If you really wanna mess with a loser that does this s***. Just downplay/don't even mention your successes and brush off your failures like nothing. It is the complete opposite of how they are wired, they will get confused and angry for reasons their pea brain can't articulate.

I've learned many techniques over the years. But the best is simply don't even be around. Don't invest anything into them. Let them spin their wheels, burn out and do the same thing over and over. Take Mark Whalbergs advice from the departed...feed em s*** and keep em in the dark.

So what is the path of healing?

Unfortunately you have to go No Contact with the narcissist and all their "flying monkeys" (search the term on YouTube).

You may have to start your social life from scratch.

The more you defend yourself, the more the web tightens, because they triangulate you everywhere.

But there are benefits for survivors.
It takes you back to yourself.
Scary as it may be.
That's really all there is:
No "twin flames" or "fire and ice" or whatever other crap even society says to keep you in abusive relationships.
And once you recognize one toxic relationship for what it is, you'll be surprised how many you actually had.
Best friends?
No, two-faced backstabbers.
Better to know now.
Because when the real emergency hits, those people won't bother with you, or rip the last shreds from your heart like a pack of hyenas.

a reply to: halfoldman

I've always believed you were one of the wisest people on this site...so wise, in fact, I find I'm often not able to fully comprehend many of your posts.

Unfortunately, I think I more than understand this.

a reply to: halfoldman

Not my ex was it?

Madder than a saucepan of rattlers on a hotplate she was.

Spent years accusing me of doing all the stuff she actually did.

Happily got rid and now aware of the signs for future reference.

a reply to: halfoldman


My sons father was diagnosed with NPD.

13 years of brainwashing.

My poor son actually believed for a time that:

I could not drive on the highway Or anywhere for that matter
I had no friends
The friends I thought I had were not really my friends
My sister talked # about me constantly
These are just the ones I remember right now

My poor son actually was scared when we were leaving and I got in the highway to drive to our new freedom and life. He was so scared and almost in tears.

As the years have gone by, my son sees now that they were all lies.

It hurts me to see how it affected him, but he’s working through that quite well. Thank God!


I absolutely refuse to ever let anybody do that to me again. I haven’t dated at all since I left my ex because #1, I wasn’t going to have any man around my son. It’s been 9 years and life finally feels like it used to, safe, happy, peaceful, blessed.

People with NPD are no joke, and it’s like being in prison living with someone with this.

My advice, red flags = RUN

originally posted by: Cymru
a reply to: halfoldman

Not my ex was it?

Madder than a saucepan of rattlers on a hotplate she was.

Spent years accusing me of doing all the stuff she actually did.

Happily got rid and now aware of the signs for future reference.

I had one of those. Blaming me for cheating all the time when it was her that was carrying on multiple relationships, including with underage boys and her mother's boyfriend.
I gave her the toss.
Haven't had a meaningful relationship since, and am happy with that.

a reply to: butcherguy

I had another after that and saw the same signs so kicked her into touch.

Did 9 years with the most recent one but life , not craziness did for that relationship. (child illness tends to stress the best of relationships)

So I'm still hopeful

Thank you for articulating what I've been witnessing and never have been able to explain.

This kind of behavior is applauded and encouraged every day, not just in society, but even here on ATS.

I'm not naive to say it can be controlled or even everyone engaging in this kind of behavior realizes it, but abuse is abuse. I've grown up with a parent and grandparent who got off on this kind of behavior and going into adulthood, sickened me how widely pervasive this mentality has become.

We got members who can't even make a simple post without some form of gas lighting or shining the pedestal they view themselves on. Then wait for a member to jump on like a pack of flying monkeys.

There is a mental illness running amok that needs to be addressed and oh boy, it's not the retard soiling himself in the corner.

a reply to: Nivhk

Real narcissists do not know they are doing it.

Those exhibiting such symptoms on here are looking to bait someone into a response.