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Is demanding that U.S. Citizens Confirm they Are Eligible To Vote Truly Racist?

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posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 10:52 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well, you've accused me of all kinds of crimes through your ATS posts. Your accusatory attacks on me personally present as though you assume that I am not innocent.

I'm not a felon, and I've never lived in Florida. I lied to my mother once or twice, ran a stop sign the other day, lost my virginity a while ago. I'm not "innocent". You? Are you an innocent? LOL You have a New Testament Bible verse embedded in your signature, and you're going to argue with me over whether or not people are "innocent"?

Why do you have a problem with prisoners registering to vote and voting from prison?


edit on 7-3-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: rnaa

Except for the facts that , again, democrat cities/states are making it easier for illegals and non-citizens to vote. These same states have argued, alongside democrat leaders, that denying non-citizens/illegals the right to vote is racist...


Allowing Non-Citizens to Vote in the United States? Why Not

By Stanley Renshon on September 15, 2008
...
Summary

In recent years, a concerted effort has been gathering force to allow new immigrants to the United States to vote without becoming citizens. It is being mounted by an alliance of liberal (or progressive, if you prefer) academics and law professors, local and state political leaders most often associated with the Democratic Party or other progressive parties like the Greens, and community and immigration activists. They are working in tandem to decouple the legal standing to vote from American citizenship.

As a result of these efforts, there are several municipalities in the United States that currently allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. Moreover, legislation to allow non-citizens to vote has been introduced in a number of states and localities including Washington, D.C., San Francisco, and New York City.

Advocates of non-citizen voting advance many arguments for their initiatives. They point out that non-citizen voting was, at one time, allowed in a number of early American states and territories and that it is currently allowed in other Western democracies. They argue that it is only fair to allow non-citizens to vote since they shoulder many of the responsibilities of citizens, like paying taxes, but are not formally represented. And, they say, allowing non-citizens to vote will have civic value as a training ground for the responsibilities of citizenship.

The list of possible virtues put forward by advocates for allowing non-citizens to vote is a long one. However, to date, there has been no real assessment of these claims and no analysis of the possible impact of implementing these proposals on the immigration process itself, or more generally on American national politics and political culture.

That is the purpose of this analysis.

Allowing Non-Citizens to Vote in the United States? Why Not


By Jennifer G. Hickey March 11, 2019

When Republicans last September put forth a non-binding resolution opposing allowing illegal immigrants to vote in local elections, 49 Democrats joined them to secure passage. What a difference a few months make.

Now in the minority, Republicans attempted to add language to the so-called For the People Act of 2019, a sweeping proposal to overhaul the election and campaign finance system, stating that “allowing illegal immigrants the right to vote devalues the franchise and diminishes the voting power of United States citizens.”

While the Act passed, the motion to recommit with that language was defeated 228-197 and every Democrat but six opposed it. Among the opposition Democrats were 41 members who had voted to approve similar] language just six months ago.
...


Hou se Democrats Devalue Voting Rights with Support For Non-Citizen Voting



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Well, you've accused me of all kinds of crimes through your ATS posts. Your accusatory attacks on me personally present as though you assume that I am not innocent.


You have lied in many threads, including to claim things like "president Trump colluded with the Russians." So yes, I do call out when someone is obviously lying...

I have stated "the democrat party is now the party of criminals" because it is a fact. The democrat party is protecting criminals, and not just illegal aliens. But also illegal aliens that have committed hit and run, murder, and other crimes including identity theft. Not to mention the riots and destruction caused by Antifa, BLM, and other violent far left groups meanwhile your party claims "they are mostly peaceful protesters." Meanwhile your same 'democrat party leaders" have accused ALL republicans, and ALL Trump supporters of being insurrectionists, and terrorists, and have even passed laws making such claims. Which most, if not all, left-wing /never-Trumpers in ATS have also claimed...

You/left/never-Trumpers even claimed that Kyle Rittenhouse is a criminal for having to defend himself and having killed actual criminals whom attempted to murder him.

The couple whom were at their home, and BLM, Antifa protesters broke the gate that said "private property" broke inside and yelled at the couple that the protesters were going to kill the couple, and were going to take the home of the couple have been labeled as "criminals" for being armed and pointing those guns towards the criminals whom kept yelling that they were going to kill the couple , take their home, etc...

You/the left/never-Trumpers have sided with real criminals for years now, and you all agree with your left-wing politicians in their claims that being Trump supporters, Republicans, leaning to the right in politics is now a crime in the U.S.

As for what is in my signature I have a quote by Samuel Adams... It isn't a bible quote... (still have that quote)

Also, as for innocence you can be a flawed person and still be innocent...

Not to mention the fact that we are talking in reference to LAWS BY MEN, and not biblical laws...
The thread is not about biblical laws, but immigration laws, the right to vote and laws that apply to the right to vote.



originally posted by: Sookiechacha
Why do you have a problem with prisoners registering to vote and voting from prison?


Because they gave up their rights when they committed crimes. Their innocence cannot be verified or denied until after the trial. Not to mention the fact that many criminals whom are "awaiting trial" are repeat offenders and have a criminal career.

BTW, your party, democrats, also want to allow 16 year olds to vote. Simply because at that age most kids are left-wing, or have left-wing ideals. Even though they lack experience and knowledge in politics.



edit on 7-3-2021 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:27 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse


An extract from the actual California elections code describing the "Motor Voter" procedure:


2263. (a) The Department of Motor Vehicles, in consultation with the Secretary of State, shall establish a schedule and method for the department to electronically provide to the Secretary of State the records specified in this section.
(b) (1) The department shall provide to the Secretary of State, in a manner and method to be determined by the department in consultation with the Secretary of State, the following information associated with each person who submits an application for a driver’s license or identification card pursuant to Section 12800, 12815, or 13000 of the Vehicle Code, or who notifies the department of a change of address pursuant to Section 14600 of the Vehicle Code:
(A) Name.
(B) Date of birth.
(C) Either or both of the following, as contained in the department’s records:
(i) Residence address.
(ii) Mailing address.
(D) Digitized signature, as described in Section 12950.5 of the Vehicle Code.
(E) Telephone number, if available.
(F) Email address, if available.
(G) Language preference.
(H) Political party preference.
(I) Whether the person chooses to become a permanent vote by mail voter.
(J) Whether the person affirmatively declined to become registered to vote during a transaction with the department.
(K) A notation that the applicant has attested that he or she meets all voter eligibility requirements, including United States citizenship, specified in Section 2101.
(L) Other information specified in regulations implementing this chapter.


The entire law is here: leginfo.legislature.ca.gov... ?bill_id=201520160AB1461

Read and pay attention to what the law is saying. California is not 'automatically registering to vote anyone whom gets a driver's license'. California is OFFERING to send details to the Secretary of State for voter registration. IF they AGREE, then they must also attest (under penalty of perjury) "that he or she meets all voter eligibility requirements, including United States citizenship, specified in Section 2101".

From the summary of that law:

Existing law makes it a crime for a person to willfully cause, procure, or allow himself or herself or any other person to be registered as a voter, knowing that he or she or that other person is not entitled to registration. Existing law also makes it a crime to fraudulently vote or attempt to vote.


And how the Secretary of State handles the 'affidavit of registration':

2265. (a) The records of a person designated in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 2263 shall constitute a completed affidavit of registration and the Secretary of State shall register the person to vote, unless any of the following conditions is satisfied:
(1) The person’s records, as described in Section 2263, reflect that he or she affirmatively declined to become registered to vote during a transaction with the Department of Motor Vehicles.
(2) The person’s records, as described in Section 2263, do not reflect that he or she has attested to meeting all voter eligibility requirements specified in Section 2101.
(3) The Secretary of State determines that the person is ineligible to vote.


In other words is up to the Secretary of State to validate the registration in exactly the same manner they would have if you had rocked up to the county recorders office and submitted your registration in person.

There is nothing nefarious going on here nobody is being 'automatically' registered to vote and non-citizens are not being registered. The DMV is NOT handling voter registrations and the DMV has no authority to determine voter eligibility. The DMV is merely serving as a convenient point of contact for gathering the information so the voter doesn't have to also go down to the county recorders office in a second trip. Convenience. Pure and simple.



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:31 PM
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a reply to: rnaa

They only have to check a box, but don't have to prove they are legal/citizens...

Just because far left states like California added a box in which people are asked "are you a U.S. citizen" but are not required to show any evidence of being citizens doesn't make this, or your argument right...

Heck, democrats fought tooth and nail in not allowing that same question in the census. In case you didn't know the census is also used to determine how many representatives and Senators a state has...

In reality states like California, and many others, have representatives and Senators whom are representing ILLEGALS... Which according to the U.S. Constitution it is a crime. But such states have gotten away with this, alongside the changes they have made for several years now allowing non-citizens and illegals to vote...




edit on 7-3-2021 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:40 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




You have lied in many threads




I have stated "the democrat party is now the party of criminals" because it is a fact.


So, there are a lot of guilty, not so innocent voters?



You/left/never-Trumpers even claimed that Kyle Rittenhouse is a criminal for having to defend himself and having killed actual criminals whom attempted to murder him.




Their innocence cannot be verified or denied until after the trial.


So, Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't be able to vote, until after he's cleared by the courts? Or, because he's out on bail, because he has moneyed friends, he is innocent until proven guilty, and should be able to vote?


edit on 7-3-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:44 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha

So, there are a lot of guilty, not so innocent voters?


What in the world are you talking about?
Care to specify what you are claiming?...




originally posted by: Sookiechacha
So, Kyle Rittenhouse shouldn't be able to vote, until after he's cleared by the courts? Or, because he's out on bail, because he has moneyed friends, he is innocent until proven guilty, and should be able to vote?



Kyle Rittenhouse is 17 years old... He can't vote. Not to mention the fact that as per U.S. law he didn't break any laws. He is being accused, in a democrat hell hole, simply because he leans to the right in politics...

Similar to how Lt. Gen. Flynn, and many other former Trump campaign advisors were all accused of crimes they didn't commit...

NONE of the Trump campaign advisors colluded with Russia, and neither did President Trump. But your party used "Russian lies" which Hillary Clinton came up with to shift away Americans from her email scandal, and such lies were used for over 4 years to attempt to oust the POTUS.

Not to mention that your party also LIED about President Trump's speech in which he said in specific: "... We are marching to PEACEFULLY and patriotically have our voices heard..." Yet your party of criminals edited his speech and left out this section of his speech to claim he committed a crime. Despite the FACT that left-wingers/never-Trumpers like you have been shown these facts, you all keep claiming "he committed a crime and called for an insurrection" when he didn't do such a thing...

Your party, democrats/progressives/the left/never-Trumpers have turned into FASCISTS and COMMUNISTS. These things only happens under such dictatorships...




edit on 7-3-2021 by ElectricUniverse because: add and correct comment.



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse



They only have to check a box, but don't have to prove they are legal/citizens...


Correct. The DMV has no authority to verify that, they don't need to, you don't need to be a citizen to get a driver's license.

It is the Secretary of State that does that checking.

From the California Secretary of State Motor Voter Page

Since 1993, the National Voter Registration Act, often known as the Motor Voter law, has helped millions of people register to vote or update their voter information during a driver license or ID card transaction at the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).

The California Motor Voter program applies to Californians who are 18 or older and meet the following criteria:

A United States citizen and a resident of California.

Not currently serving a state or federal prison term for the conviction of a felony (Click here for more information)
Not currently found mentally incompetent to vote by a court. (Click here for more information)

Voter pre-registration is available for Californians who are 16 or 17 years old. They will automatically be registered to vote when they turn 18. Before visiting a DMV field office, we recommend making an appointment. You can also use DMV online services to renew your driver license or ID card or change your address.

If you indicate that you are eligible to vote, once you complete your DMV transaction online, by mail, or in person, your voter information is transmitted securely and electronically to the California Secretary of State. Once your eligibility to vote is determined, you will be registered to vote.


From the California Secretary of State Motor Voter FAQ page


How will the DMV system ensure only U.S. Citizens are registered to vote?

To be eligible to vote, you must be a U.S. citizen and a resident of California, 18 years old or older on Election Day, not currently serving a state or federal prison term for the conviction of a felony, and not prohibited from voting by a court because of mental incompetency.

State law prohibits DMV from sending information for AB 60 applicants (undocumented driver license applicants) to the Secretary of State. For other applicants, state law requires each person to declare, under penalty of perjury, that they meet all voter eligibility requirements, including citizenship.


I urge you to stop blindly echoing reactionary talking points designed to gaslight the election system. If somebody is telling you something that doesn't make sense (and you KNOW it doesn't make sense that California or any other state would set up a system that would register non-citizens to vote), to at least check it out. It took me one google search and 5 seconds to find the California law, and another two minutes to skim to the part that demonstrates you had the wrong information.

And many of the statistics you quoted are bogus too, by the way, and have been debunked years ago. Have you forgotten the Trump/Pence Voter Fraud Commission that couldn't find any fraud worth even writing up a report? They had access to those statistics too - there is a reason why they just disappeared and shut up about it - never to be heard from again. It is also telling that the only two 'dead voters' in the 2020 election were Trump voters. But those two dead voters don't have anything to do with the millions of votes that were not cast by dead voters, and trying to invalidate the entire election based on that is (no - too many dirty words to be honest here).

I don't care that you have a different political viewpoint from me, knock yourself out. But if you are going to argue about facts make sure you have the facts and are not just parroting some gas lighting talking point power station. Just please wpruce up your BS detector and spare us all the lies used to prop up this ridiculous argument.

The assertion that undocumented drivers are being automatically registered is demonstrably false and in-person voter fraud (the only kind that extra layers of ID might affect) in US elections is vanishingly small.

Bigger fraud, like gerrymandering and pressuring election officials to overturn elections, and allowing legislatures to throw out elections and decide who won by a legislatures vote or Governor fiat - now that is some kind of voter fraud I could get behind fighting.
edit on 8/3/2021 by rnaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: rnaa

Do tell us, is that why several investigations have found that illegals and non-voters have in fact been found in states like California registered to vote?...


By Bryan Anderson
January 04, 2019 12:01 AM
...
California officials still can’t say whether non-citizens voted in the June 2018 primary because a confusing government questionnaire about eligibility was created in a way that prevents a direct answer on citizenship.
...
Investigators can see that people marked themselves as ineligible to vote or declined to answer eligibility questions, but they can’t tell why.
...
“We can’t assume why they declined to answer eligibility questions or why they said they were not eligible,” the Secretary of State’s Office wrote in an internal memo on Oct. 8, 2018.

That email and other documents The Sacramento Bee obtained through the Public Records Act shed light on why the Secretary of State has been unable to say clearly whether non-citizens voted last year. The Bee filed a legal complaint for the records when the Secretary of State initially withheld most of them.
...

Did non-citizens vote last year? California officials still can’t say



edit on 8-3-2021 by ElectricUniverse because: correct excerpt.



posted on Mar, 7 2021 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




What in the world are you talking about?
Care to specify what you are claiming?...


LOL Can't keep up? I'm claiming that The Constitution has no qualifier that a voter has to be innocent, as Carewemust posted.


All innocent Americans should be allowed to vote.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Kyle Rittenhouse is 17 years old... He can't vote.


He's 18 now. He will be over 18 before his case is heard.


One of the questions involving the Kyle Rittenhouse defensive engagements is if Kyle was forbidden from carrying an AR15 rifle, because he was at that time, four months short of his 18th birthday.

www.ammoland.com...

He was charged in August 2020. Should Kyle Rittenhouse be able to register to vote, and vote in upcoming elections?



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha

LOL Can't keep up? I'm claiming that The Constitution has no qualifier that a voter has to be innocent, as Carewemust posted.


It is you whom seem unable to keep up... I provided evidence that "not-guilty" in the eye of the law is the same as "innocent."

You tried to use biblical laws to claim that man-made laws makes everyone not innocent... Which in case you didn't know is dishonest and being disingenuous...


originally posted by: Sookiechacha
He's 18 now. He will be over 18 before his case is heard.


One of the questions involving the Kyle Rittenhouse defensive engagements is if Kyle was forbidden from carrying an AR15 rifle, because he was at that time, four months short of his 18th birthday.

www.ammoland.com...

He was charged in August 2020. Should Kyle Rittenhouse be able to register to vote, and vote in upcoming elections?


Again, according to U.S. law he didn't commit any crimes... You, and your party claim he is a criminal because he is not left/a never-Trumper like you are...



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:08 AM
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a reply to: rnaa

Not to mention the fact that asking whether or not someone is eligible to vote, or if they are citizens, meanwhile not asking for any proof of citizenship it does not stop anyone whom is a non-citizen from voting.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse

That article is TWO YEARS OLD.

Have they found an answer yet?
Have they changed the problematic forms?
Have they changed the procedure?
Have they identified any individuals that knowingly registered to vote illegally? (Have you read the law I posted above?)
Have they charged any individuals or explained why not?

Just because something is a problem two years ago doesn't mean it stays a problem forever. Once the issue was exposed do you think they just sit on their hands and say 'that's a cool undocumented feature not a bug' and just keep on keeping on?

Please think about what you are doing.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




It is you whom seem unable to keep up... I provided evidence that "not-guilty" in the eye of the law is the same as "innocent."


As in "innocent until proven guilty"?
But you think people awaiting trial in prisons shouldn't be able to vote, because, as you say...


Their innocence cannot be verified or denied until after the trial.




Again, according to U.S. law he didn't commit any crimes..


He's charged with 2 counts first degree homicide.

So, should Kyle Rittenhouse be able to register to vote, and vote, or not?


edit on 8-3-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:27 AM
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originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

It is you whom seem unable to keep up... I provided evidence that "not-guilty" in the eye of the law is the same as "innocent."



Uh, no it isn't.

"Not Guilty" is a verdict that is reached by a jury based on the charge made, the evidence given, and the defense made. A not guilty verdict may often be equivalent to 'innocent', but no where near always.

The charge may be inappropriate or all the evidence may not have been forthcoming. A murder charge may be difficult to prove or get a jury to convict (juries may be reluctant to send someone to death row) - but a manslaughter charge would work. That doesn't mean the guy is innocent of murder, it just means he hasn't been found guilty of murder (because in this example he wasn't charged).

Not Guilty verdicts are overturned or revisited all the time. Double Jeopardy is, of course, a hurdle, but there are circumstances that provide for it - new evidence, perversion of justice, etc.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 12:44 AM
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a reply to: ElectricUniverse




Not to mention the fact that asking whether or not someone is eligible to vote, or if they are citizens, meanwhile not asking for any proof of citizenship it does not stop anyone whom is a non-citizen from voting.


Are you missing the part that the Secretary of State is responsible for validating citizenship - not the DMV?

Are you missing the part that undocumented driver's license applicants details do not go to the SoS for registration? And the undocumented part means that they have to go through special hoops in order to qualify for the license and the DMV absolutely know that the undocumented applicant is NOT a citizen.

Are you missing the part that the attestation on the form is subject to penalty of perjury.

Are you missing the part that the only non-citizen applicants that might get through are legal immigrants who would lose their immigration status and be fined (up to $100,000), jailed for 2 years and then deported if they were caught perjuring themselves?

On what planet is it worth it to knowingly falsify the registration just so you can vote and get kicked out of the country? Do you think that that legal immigration status is so worthless to them?

Why would you accept the blathering about an affamadit (or whatever she said) from a drunk attention seeker and not a sober upstanding driver's license applicant?
edit on 8/3/2021 by rnaa because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/3/2021 by rnaa because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/3/2021 by rnaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 02:05 AM
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2020 election

200 million Americans voted
100 million Americans did not vote

30% of Americans usually don’t vote every election

Ten million Americans roughly don’t have an ID

If those ten million didn’t vote either bc they didn’t have I’d

Then 33% of Americans wouldn’t be voting.

IDs would make sure every vote is matched and make the election easier to protect

Why are we risking the whole election over 3% more votes?
edit on 8-3-2021 by tonycodes because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 05:17 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ElectricUniverse




What in the world are you talking about?
Care to specify what you are claiming?...


LOL Can't keep up? I'm claiming that The Constitution has no qualifier that a voter has to be innocent, as Carewemust posted.


All innocent Americans should be allowed to vote.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



Kyle Rittenhouse is 17 years old... He can't vote.


He's 18 now. He will be over 18 before his case is heard.


One of the questions involving the Kyle Rittenhouse defensive engagements is if Kyle was forbidden from carrying an AR15 rifle, because he was at that time, four months short of his 18th birthday.

www.ammoland.com...

He was charged in August 2020. Should Kyle Rittenhouse be able to register to vote, and vote in upcoming elections?
Why are you being aggressively ignorant? Feeling defensive about your beliefs?



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 06:25 AM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: carewemust

A lot of prisoners, including January 6th accused insurrectionists, are still waiting for their day in court. Don't you think those people, who haven't been convicted of anything, should be able to vote from prison?


In America, you are innocent until convicted.


So, they should be able to register to vote and vote from prison then, right?



All innocent Americans should be allowed to vote.


LOL

Don't recall seeing that qualifier in the Constitution. If innocence was a requirement, neither of us would be allowed to vote.


Then felons and prisoners can get guns too.



posted on Mar, 8 2021 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

a reply to: Rob808

Are your non-replies excuses for why you believe that someone who has been accused of a crime, but not yet convicted, should lose their right to vote?


edit on 8-3-2021 by Sookiechacha because: (no reason given)



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