Is demanding that U.S. Citizens Confirm they Are Eligible To Vote Truly Racist?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

LOL

Don't recall seeing that qualifier in the Constitution. If innocence was a requirement, neither of us would be allowed to vote.

That's the problem, leftists/never-Trumpers like you don't seem to have EVER read the U.S. constitution.

Here. The 14th Amendment specifies that when you are convicted of a real crime you can lose your right to vote. It even states that those which committed a real crime, or participated in a rebellion shall not be counted for representation (census).

Fourteenth Amendment
...
Section 2

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
...

Fourteenth Amendment

Section 2 of the 14th Amendment clearly states that the only reasons for denying Americans their right to vote is if they participated in a rebellion, or if they truly committed a crime...

Being your political opponent, or being an opponent to democrat, CCP loving criminal leaders is not a crime...

You should try reading the U.S. Constitution. Then perhaps you will realize how criminal your democrat, CCP loving criminal leaders and RINOs truly are...

originally posted by: rnaa


I do not believe you.

In what State do you vote? I will look the process in your state.

How long have you been living in Australia?...

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: rnaa
To answer the original poster's attempt to gaslight the readers of this thread I would like to remind everyone of two simple facts:

1) In order to vote in the United States you MUST BE REGISTERED to vote. This applies in every state and territory. EVERY ONE.
2) In order to register to vote, you must PROVE you are a CITIZEN. This applies in every state and territory. EVERY ONE.

So what exactly does your demand to 'prove eligibility to vote' do that isn't already happening?

Is this supposed to be a claim that fraud doesn't exist?

Because it does, en masse.

Clearly the system doesn't work.

No it is not a claim that fraud does not exist. It is an assertion that proof of eligibility is already demanded of every potential voter - and it has been so forever.

Sure fraud exists - the Heritage Foundation has apparently documented about 1300 cases since the mid-1990's.

1300 cases out of probably several BILLION votes cast in that time period.

Airplanes and drugs are not tested to that many decimal places of assurance.

I call that MASSIVE INTEGRITY.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: rnaa


I do not believe you.

In what State do you vote? I will look the process in your state.

How long have you been living in Australia?...

For a while... what state do you live in?

originally posted by: deadlysyn
So next time someone asks to see ID when I go to buy beer, I can just scream about how racist it is to ask for ID? I wonder how well it would go over when I call a police officer racist for asking for "license and registration"?

No.

Since the store keeper only has to card you if you aren't 'obviously', to him, old enough, he doesn't 'have' to ask everyone (apparently not so in Utah).

If he automatically just asks everyone, no matter what, then he is being overly conscientious.

However, if he asks every black person regardless of apparent age and he asks zero white persons, then yes, it is being racist.

But you know this because you are obviously old enough to buy beer and therefore have enough life experience to be able to tell the difference, right?

So this disingenuous, snow-flake, comment serves what purpose exactly?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Being convicted of a felony and being innocent are two different things. Besides, courts declare a defendant, "Not Guilty" they don't declare a defendant innocent.

If someone is waiting in jail or prison to be tried for crime, and not yet convicted of a felony, they should be able to vote from prison. Do you disagree?

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Don't try to change your argument now. Being convicted of a felony, unless we are talking about democrat hell holes, usually means that there is evidence that shows that person committed a crime. So when a person is found "not guilty" or "not culpable/non culpable" it also means and can be described as "innocent."

not guilty

n.
A formal plea by a defendant of not being culpable for the crime with which the defendant is charged.
n.
A verdict or formal finding by the legal system that a defendant is not culpable for the crime with which the defendant was charged.
n.
A member of a jury or tribunal supporting acquittal, or a vote cast in support of acquittal.

www.wordnik.com...

culpable
adjective blameworthy, wrong, guilty, to blame, liable, in the wrong, at fault, sinful, answerable, found wanting, reprehensible Their decision to do nothing makes them culpable.
innocent, not guilty, in the clear, squeaky-clean, blameless, guiltless, clean (slang)

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Are you unaware that "innocence" is an antonym of "culpable" and "guilty"?

Hence not guilty, not culpable/non culpable can also be described as "innocent."



www.freethesaurus.com...

Or is it that you are unaware that the word "antonym" means opposite?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Fourteenth Amendment

Section 2 of the 14th Amendment clearly states that the only reasons for denying Americans their right to vote is if they participated in a rebellion, or if they truly committed a crime...

No, actually it doesn't. Apparently you can read the Constitution, but have no ability to comprehend it.

That amendment is NOT describing how the right to vote CAN be lost, it is saying that IF the right to vote HAS been lost because of rebellion or crime, then those citizens should not be counted in proportioning Congress. It is possible that you could lose your right to vote in some way other than rebellion or committing a crime. Under the old Jim Crow laws for example, it isn't a crime to not be able to read, but in some places if you couldn't read you couldn't vote (and some places if you could read English but not Polish you couldn't vote) - but those citizens were for sure included in the redistricting counts.

The purpose of this clause is obviously to ensure that Congressional districts cannot be carved out that contain a large non-voting prison population but relatively few actual voters.

Different states have different rules about prisoner voting - some (most? all?) states remove civil rights (in the past at least they often removed human rights as well) upon conviction. Some restore all civil rights on exit, some don't for certain crimes (until recently, for example, Florida refuse voting rights to felons even after they have served their time).

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

NOBODY IS INNOCENT...period. Innocence is not a qualifier to vote in the USA. If it were, nobody would be able to vote.

I haven't changed my argument. People waiting for trial in jail or prison should be able to register to vote from there, and then vote from there. Do you have a problem with that?

a reply to: rnaa

If I recall correctly, Florida will reinstate most felon's voting rights after they've served their sentence AND paid off all fines and restitution.

a reply to: rnaa

Yes it does... "IF the right to vote HAS been lost because of rebellion or crime." Then participating in a rebellion or committing a crime are grounds for losing your right to vote.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

NOBODY IS INNOCENT...period. Innocence is not a qualifier to vote in the USA. If it were, nobody would be able to vote.
...

That's what most criminals say. But it is not the truth... period...

You know where I learned that? As I was applying for police officer in Miami Florida I was asked if I though most people are guilty of something. I responded no. The interviewer was chatty for some reason and told me "You don't know how many people fail this for saying that they do think most people have committed a crime. Criminals, or those whom have committed crimes but haven't been caught, usually are the people who think everyone is guilty of some crime.

a reply to: rnaa

You entirely missed the point. Going to check out a book from a library, you can bet that requires ID. Want to buy alcohol or tobacco products, again, requires ID. Operating a motor vehicle, also has an ID requirement in the form of an operators license. If you want to purchase a new firearm, form 4473 also comes with an ID check. Need to enroll your children in school? Better have their birth certificate, vaccination record, and your own ID as well.

But we can't force ID checks at polling stations, because that would be racist based on the claim that minorities are somehow unable to acquire an ID. They are still just as able to do everything I mentioned earlier in this post, but somehow can't acquire a legitimate ID. Then again, our president also claims they don't know how to use the internet.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: rnaa

If I recall correctly, Florida will reinstate most felon's voting rights after they've served their sentence AND paid off all fines and restitution.

So what did you do? And please don't try to backtrack. You gave yourself up.

a reply to: rnaa

It seems that you have lived for a very long time outside the U.S., in Australia.

Several "democrat" states, such as California and Illinois have made it easier for non-citicens and even illegals not just to get a driver's license. But such states are automatically registering to vote anyone whom gets a driver's license.

...
The National Voter Registration Act, aka Motor Voter, aka auto fraudo, ostensibly was set up to ensure that people would be able to vote without much effort at all. It has now been hijacked to enable noncitizens to register and vote.

As part of that act, an independent commission, the Election Assistance Commission (EAC), was set up, with two members each nominated by leaders of the two major parties in order to help states comply with the law, despite the fact that the 17th Amendment of the Constitution explicitly lays out that the states have the power to set the “[q]ualification requisite for electors.” In this murky situation, opportunities for mischief are created.

Writing at National Review, Hans von Spakovsky explains what has developed:

… when Arizona sought to include citizenship-verification requirements with voter-registration forms, the institutional Left — including the League of Women Voters, People for the American Way, Common Cause, Project Vote, and Chicanos for La Causa — brought a lawsuit claiming that the EAC hadn’t approved such requirements. Incredibly, this fight over whether states can ensure that only citizens are voting went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2013 in Arizona v. Inter Tribal Council of Arizona, a divided Court said that Arizona could not implement such a requirement unless and until the EAC agreed to change the instructions for use of the federal form to include the Arizona requirements.

However, the majority opinion in that case, written by Justice Antonin Scalia, stipulated that if the EAC refused Arizona’s request to accommodate the proof-of-citizenship requirement, the state could sue the EAC and establish in court that “a mere oath will not suffice to effectuate its citizenship requirement and that the EAC is therefore under a nondiscretionary duty to include Arizona’s concrete evidence requirement on the Federal Form.” The Court went so far as to say that Arizona could also claim that a refusal by the EAC would be “arbitrary,” since the agency “has accepted a similar instruction requested by Louisiana.” Indeed, the Court noted, the EAC had ”recently approved a state-specific instruction for Louisiana requiring applicants who lack a Louisiana driver’s license, ID card, or Social Security number to attach additional documentation” to the federal voter-registration form.
...

Coalition of Justice Dept. radical lawyers and tax-exempt nonprofits seeking to make it easy for noncitizens to vote

In fact various research has found that illegals and non-citizens have voted even in U.S. presidential elections.

By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times - Monday, June 19, 2017

A research group in New Jersey has taken a fresh look at postelection polling data and concluded that the number of noncitizens voting illegally in U.S. elections is likely far greater than previous estimates.

As many as 5.7 million noncitizens may have voted in the 2008 election, which put Barack Obama in the White House.

The research organization Just Facts, a widely cited, independent think tank led by self-described conservatives and libertarians, revealed its number-crunching in a report on national immigration.
...

Study supports Trump: 5.7 million noncitizens may have cast illegal votes

Even in states like Ohio it has been found out that hundreds of non-citizens were registered to vote. These are only some of the cases we know of.

by: Tyler Utzka
Posted: Feb 27, 2017 / 09:23 AM EST / Updated: Feb 27, 2017 / 09:23 AM EST

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH, WDTN) – Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted announced an investigation has uncovered that hundreds of non-US citizens are registered to vote in the state, and dozens of them voted illegally.

According to a release from Husted, 385 people who are not citizens of the United States are registered to vote in Ohio. Out of those, 82 voted in at least one election in the last year.

The investigation shows that two non-citizens registered and voted in Montgomery county and one person each in Auglaize, Darke and Shelby counties.

According to Montgomery County Board of Elections director, Jan Kelly, currently there’s no way for offices to confirm if people are legal citizens.
...

Ohio Secretary of State investigation found non-citizens registered to vote, cast illegal ballots

By James D. Agresti
November 8, 2020

Based on current population data from the Census Bureau and voting data from previous elections, Just Facts has conducted a study to estimate the number of votes illegally cast by non-citizens in the battleground states of the 2020 election. The results—documented in this spreadsheet—show that such fraudulent activities netted Joe Biden the following extra votes in these tightly contested states:

Arizona: 51,081 ± 17,689
Georgia: 54,950 ± 19,025
Michigan: 22,585 ± 7,842
Nevada: 22,021 ± 7,717
North Carolina: 46,218 ± 16,001
Pennsylvania: 32,706 ± 11,332
Wisconsin: 5,010 ± 1,774

If the lower end of these illegal vote estimates were removed from the vote tallies as of November 8, 2020, 2:00 AM EST, Donald Trump would be leading in states that have a total of 259 electoral votes, or 11 shy of the 270 needed to win the presidency. If the upper end of the illegal vote estimates were removed, Trump would be leading in states that have 285 electoral votes, or 15 more than needed to win the presidency.
...

Quantifying Illegal Votes Cast by Non-Citizens in the Battleground States of the 2020 Presidential Election


Why do you think that democrats have been fighting so much for illegals whom have broken U.S. laws? Even illegals whom have run over and killed Americans have been protected by democrat cities and states...

New York is the first state, that I know of, which has given an illegal immigrant the right to be a lawyer. So for a while now someone whom committed immigration crimes is now a legal attorney in New York.

Undocumented man sworn in as an attorney in New York state

What's more if you call anyone an "illegal immigrant", even when you are right, or if you call authorities to report an illegal you can be fined up to $250,000 U.S.D.

You can now be fined up to $250,000 if you call someone an ‘illegal alien’ in New York City

a reply to: rnaa

Heck, even states like Texas have found that illegals and non-citizens have voted in U.S. elections.

05:56 PM ET 01/28/2019
...
After a yearlong voter-fraud probe, Texas discovered that, lo and behold, 95,000 people identified as noncitizens had voter registrations. What's more, 58,000 of them voted in one or more Texas elections.

When Attorney General Ken Paxton led the state's investigation, he noted that Texas had already found 165 noncitizens in four counties who had cast 100 illegal votes in two years.

More recently, Pennsylvania officials said they found more than 11,000 noncitizens registered to vote in that state.

Voter Fraud Mystery

But wait. Isn't all this stuff about noncitizens voting a load of bull? When Trump appointed a voter-fraud commission in 2017, Democrats and the press howled in protest.
...

Voter Fraud: Yes, Noncitizens Are Voting In Elections — Texas Just Proved It

If illegals and non-citizens have been found to vote in states like Texas, how many more are voting in states that make it easier for illegals and non-citizens to be registered to vote?...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: rnaa

Yes it does... "IF the right to vote HAS been lost because of rebellion or crime." Then participating in a rebellion or committing a crime are grounds for losing your right to vote.

Yes, maybe, but that is a state by state issue, not a Federal one.

It doesn't say that that is the ONLY way that you can lose the right to vote. It says who cannot be counted for Congressional reapportionment.

a reply to: rnaa

Of course, it also seems that you are unaware of that during the Obama/Biden administrations several illegals were given citizenship due to "errors."

Why do you think that Biden/democrats want to fast-track citizenship for illegals?...

Because the large majority of illegals from (including Mexico) Central America and South America vote democrat, except most Venezuelans, even though they are fleeing socialism/communism...

Obama/Biden shut down the last law that allowed Cubans to seek asylum in the U.S. If they/democrats care so much for people escaping from real dictatorships why was the "wet feet/dry feet" law shut down by the Obama/Biden administration?... Because the large majority of Cuban-Americans vote for Republicans...

originally posted by: deadlysyn
a reply to: rnaa

You entirely missed the point. nope

Going to check out a book from a library, you can bet that requires ID. Once registered, I just need to show my library card. Exactly the same as voting. And a library card is not a photo ID anywhere I've been.

Want to buy alcohol or tobacco products, again, requires ID. Only if your age is not apparent to the clerk (in most states). Yes, alcohol and tobacco are controlled substances and voting is not 'controlled' in the same manner, you are eligible if you are an adult citizen. You prove this at registration time and demonstrate that you are registered at voting time - always have.

Operating a motor vehicle, also has an ID requirement in the form of an operators license. Yes. To demonstrate that you have the skill and knowledge of road rules that will enable you to operate in society at large. There are no such requirements for voting (alas).

If you want to purchase a new firearm, form 4473 also comes with an ID check. You really want to go there? You know that just isn't true in a lot of states.

Need to enroll your children in school? Better have their birth certificate, vaccination record, and your own ID as well Yep. But once enrolled, does your child have to show ID every day? Do you have to show ID to pick them up?.

But we can't force ID checks at polling stations But they are, and always have been. Even the least restrictive states make you sign the register, and the signatures are checked afterwards.

because that would be racist based on the claim that minorities are somehow unable to acquire an ID. No, only when the ID requirements are difficult or impossible to obtain for large identifiable groups of people, and the requirement is obviously targeted at those groups. For example, allowing a gun registration card but not a student registration card as a photo ID, or forcing you to travel 170 miles in order to obtain the 'free' ID after spending upwards of 200 dollars to obtain the necessary supporting documents. Voting is a civil right and a citizen's duty, and should not be an made into an obstacle course.

They are still just as able to do everything I mentioned earlier in this post, but somehow can't acquire a legitimate ID. Then again, our president also claims they don't know how to use the internet. Photo ID's cannot be obtained over the internet, and many of those things you mentioned are difficult or impossible for millions of people.