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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
"Senate Votes Trump ‘Won the Election in a Landslide’ After Hearing Evidence Presented by the House"
Why isn’t this thread title in headlines instead of ‘Senate Votes Trump Not Guilty of Inciting an Insurrection After Hearing Evidence Presented by the House?’
As Trump’s Defense lawyers pointed out many times, the Article of Impeachment was flawed in that it violated Rule 23 which says the Article of Impeachment shall not be divisible.
They argued there was more than one charge properly before the Senate within the single Article of Impeachment. That meant their ‘guilty’ or ‘not guilty’ vote applied to ALL of the charges…or NONE of them. They argued it violated Trump's due process rights and even asked that it be remedied by separating the charges for the vote.
The Senate barreled on anyway. They didn't vote separately on the charges.
In reading the Defense's written response, there were actually only two charges the Defense agreed were ‘properly’ before the Senate:
1.) Inciting an Insurrection
2.) Making false statements (Trump's statements he “won the election in a landslide’ and his specific claims about election fraud in his rally speech, which were incorporated by reference)
The legal effect of the House leaving it to the Senate to determine if Trump’s statements that he won the election (and won in the disputed states) were false, was found to be Constitutional when the Senate voted to proceed with the trial. The House presented their argument and *cough* evidence that Trump’s claims were factually incorrect.
But, the Senate did not find the House had proven Trump’s claim he “won the election by a landslide” was factually incorrect, therefore the House failed to prove that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris won the election, too.
Congress skipped the process of hearing and debating the electoral count objections for reasons unrelated to the grounds of the objections -- the 'violent insurrection.' In doing so, they deprived millions of innocent voters an important legal remedy and due process, and they abrogated the protected right to make their/our votes effective. So the objections needed to be formally and properly decided by Congress.
Impeachment was the method the House chose to decide the issue and they placed it in the Senate’s hands.
I suspect this was the main objective of the Impeachment and why the House snuck it in there. They were trying to ‘legitimize’ the election via an Impeachment.
Anyway, Congress can’t go back now and divide the verdict into ‘not guilty of incitement' and ‘guilty of making false statements.’
I’ll close with Trump’s Defense Response to the allegation that he made false statements (their oral arguments are a worth a look, too).
The Senate found in favor of this argument.
originally posted by: Soulece
Because the senate didnt vote that Trump won in a landslide.
originally posted by: darkbake
Trump's own lawyer admitted that Trump lost the election and that it wasn't rigged during the impeachment trial when he noted that Trump was voted out of office and that the people already decided to remove him and that he didn't need to be impeached. I saw him say so live on TV.
originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: mikell
Lol, my timeline is extremely intact. Trump was spreading the lies about election fraud that directly lead to the assault months before the assault. He was the one who told them all to come to Washington D.C. on January 6th. And he already knew how violent his supporters were after the assault on the Michigan state capital earlier last year. All of that happened WAY before anyone stormed the capital.
And look what happened to those that did - they got charged and arrested, and not pardoned by Trump or any of that. Trump threw them under the bus.
Enjoy your leader! Have fun!
originally posted by: uncommitted
a reply to: MotherMayEye
Trump said they weren't factually in error, the only person saying otherwise is you, senate didn't vote that they weren't.
You posted the thing, have you actually read it? Last two lines are all you need to read.
Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it right
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" and that the President "shall be removed from Office on Impeachment, for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." Further, section 3 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution prohibits any person who has "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against" the United States from "hold[ing] and office ... under the United States.' In his conduct while President of the United States — and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, provide, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed — Donald John Trump engaged in high Crimes and Misdemeanors by inciting violence against the Government of the United States, in that:
On January 6, 2021, pursuant to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the House of Representatives, and the Senate met at the United States Capitol for a Joint Session of Congress to count the votes of the Electoral College. In the months preceding the Joint Session, President Trump repeatedly issued false statements asserting that the Presidential election results were the product of widespread fraud and should not be accepted by the American people or certified by State or Federal officials. Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that "we won this election, and we won it by a landslide." He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged — and foreseeably resulted in — lawless action at the Capitol, such as: "if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts.
President Trump's conduct on January 6, 2021, followed his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 Presidential election. Those prior efforts included a phone call on January 2, 2021, during which President Trump urged the secretary of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, to "find" enough votes to overturn the Georgia Presidential election results and threatened Secretary Raffensperger if he failed to do so.
In all this, President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of Government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coequal branch of Government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore, Donald John Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. Donald John Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.