Dozens develop serious blood disorder after getting Covid vaccine

a reply to: M5xaz

Thank you

I hope that I have been able to shed a little light on what ITP is .

One day at a time

a reply to: trollz

Your article is fiction first it blames the virus for Immune thrombocytopenia which in most cases is non leathal and will cure on its own. Then it says he had a brain hemorrhage a stroke in other words and died. Again this wouldnt be related to the virus its caused by high blood pressure and hyper tension. So then it tells us 36 others developed Immune thrombocytopenia. Making it seem they will die to all because someone had a stroke. Thrombocytopenia often cures itself within 6 months. In the majority of people with ITP, the condition isn't serious or life-threatening. Just makes you look purple until your platlet count turns to normal. Autoimmune diseases, chronic infections, medications, pregnancy, and certain cancers are common secondary triggers.In children exposure to a virus can also be a trigger. What will kill you is an infection and should avoid cuts but is not really fatal if you take procautions. 99 percent will return to normal within 2 years.

There is no way to prove this is even connected to the shots much less the cause.

originally posted by: The2Billies
...
That said, PROVE there are more affected before saying the vaccine caused .... because 7-12 people came down with ..... I went back and got some stats from 2015 and from well before COVID even popped up to find out how many people out of every ..... should be expected to get those diseases.

It is manipulative, and scare mongering, to say people will get a terrible disease from the vaccine when 12 people out of 32 million came down with the disease after getting the vaccine, when at a minimum 2500 people would be expected to come down with the disease with or without the vaccine.

People who say that the vaccine was the cause of these 12 people getting sick when 2500 people normally out of the 32 million will get the disease "naturally" without the vaccine - is just plain scare mongering and wrong. ...

There are a couple of things off with your calculations there as compared to the scenario you are drawing. For starters, you don't seem to be taking into consideration that you are comparing 2 different timeframes, the 2500 (2560 - 3840, when taking the 8-12 per 100k people range on 32M people) is an annual number. But the number of people vaccinated has not been 32M for 12 months, none of these have had the vaccin for 12 months, and many of those 32M people have only just had the vaccin. So you can't simply take that 32M and multiply it by 0.008% - 0.012%, to get the number of cases of ITP that you would expect to get under normal nonvaccination conditions since the vaccin has started to be distributed (2 months ago? 1 month for most?). So you'll need an estimated average with a timeframe for # of people vaccinated, let's say 16M have been vaccinated for a month on average (taking into consideration that some people of that 32M have had these vaccins* for 2 months, and some people of that 32M only a couple of days; assuming that the rate of increase for vaccinations is somewhat steady but slow on startup). We''ll come back to that part of the calculation later. (*: when I'm talking about "the vaccin" or "vaccinated" in this comment I'm only referring to the vaccins mentioned in the OP, unless otherwise specified)

Next, I'm not sure where you get the "7-12 people came down with" (ITP) number from (or later "12 people out of 32 million came down with the disease"), cause the article in the OP is talking about "At least 36 recipients". So let's just work with that number from now on.

Next up, is the consideration that not everyone who gets ITP will be detected or report serious symptoms (one of the major reasons your 2500 number, as in cases you would expect to get, is so much higher than the 12 reported/detected cases you mentioned, or even the 36 in the OP, next to the timeframe difference, cause the 2500 is for a year and the 12 or 36 is for half a month for 32M people or so, or 16M people and 1 month). Conveniently, someone else on page 1 reported a 5% serious symptom-rate ("severe bleeding"), so let's assume the only ones reported, the 36, is actually only 5% of the number of new cases of ITP amongst vaccinated people, the rest has not been detected or 'presented' with "severe bleeding" as the article linked on page 1 puts it .

Now we can do some calculations, albeit, they will be very rough and perhaps somewhat meaningless because of that, better refinement of the numbers and estimations above would help, in particular the 16M for 1 month number (also because I don't know exactly when vaccination of these vaccins started in the US, it's not based on any calculation, but a very rough guess based on the 32M that are now vaccinated, 32M for 1 month is pretty much the maximum figure you can assign to this though, and that would be assuming that just as many people got vaccinated in the first month of vaccinations as in the 2nd month, which I think isn't finished yet, and it's not very realistic regarding these 2 vaccins, much more people got vaccinated in the 2nd month, that's why I went with 16M instead of the 32M which would be more based on a straightforward calculation). Along with considering more factors that I haven't considered yet probably. If you go with 32M, all you have to do is double the endresult below, the calculation will then be more favorable to the vaccin and vaccin sellers).

Number of cases of ITP you would expect to be reported or detected (so comparing with the actual 36 in the OP) over a period of 1 month of 16M vaccinated people, if the vaccin had no influence on this number (the average of 8-12 cases per 100k people is 0.0001 or 0.01%):

16M * 0.01% / 12 (months) * 5% (reported/detected) = 6.667 number of cases you would expect to be detected if the vaccin had no influence on this

The reality is, "36 recipients of Pfizer’s and Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines in the US have developed a rare immune disorder that attacks the blood". That's 5-6 times as many as would be expected from this rather rough calculation and estimate.

Of course, if the "annual "new case" rate of 8-12 people out of every 100,000 people" that you mentioned is actually referring to detected cases with severe symptoms as described in the 5% someone else reported, then that factor should no longer be part of the calculation above. But you said "new cases", so that would be the 100% of the other comment that mentioned 5% severe symptoms. Next to that, I just checked the article you linked there, and it's talking about "prevalence" instead of "new cases", but perhaps I'm misunderstanding that part. But that study doesn't seem to be counting "new cases", but number of cases that year, if someone from the previous year still has it, then it's counted among the "prevalence" number but it's not a new case. So this number that I've now worked with seems to need some refinement as well.

I'm not really taking a position on this matter cause I understand how rough this estimate is and the difficulties of these sort of calculations and drawing conclusions from them that may be a bit presumptuous, but this was just to show that you do need to take some important things into consideration which you didn't in your calculation, and then the numbers change drastically compared to your calculation. Which in my opinion, was way too simplified and skewered the results especially because of these 3 issues that I mentioned: timeframe, 36 being the actual number of detected cases of ITP, and only a small portion of new cases of ITP being detected and reported on (especilly within such a short timeframe).

Those are at least some minimum considerations that you can't just leave out of the calculation altogether if one wants to guess at how many people can be expected to get ITP or report on it with severe symtoms so that it gets detected if the vaccins in question had no influence on this number.

One thing that could be considered in this calculation is that there's a delay between receiving the vaccin and reporting symptoms of ITP, which may develop only later anyway. Which will lower that 6.667 number even more and make the gap bigger with the 36 number. Meaning, it gets worse for those trying to market the vaccin as "safe" by playing around with numbers and not telling the whole story.

Is the 32M number at least for Pfizer’s and Moderna’s vaccins? Or does that include other vaccins as well, cause then the 32M goes down, and consequently the 6.667 number as well, again making the gap bigger with the 36 number, not good for the supposed "safety" of the vaccin. I.e. more people are reporting severe symptoms of ITP (36) than you would expect (< 6.667). Also I have not really taken into consideration yet that the number of vaccinations in the first month (those who now have had the vaccin for a bit more than a month) was slow to get going (so not a steady increase, as assumed earlier for easier calculations). When this is considered, the 16M people for a month becomes lower, and hence the 6.667 number becomes lower as well. I take it I don't have to explain anymore what this means for the supposed "safety" of these vaccins?

a reply to: whereislogic

If the 36 number in the OP not only represents the 5% of cases with "severe bleeding", but also includes a percentage of those who still have ITP but no severe bleeding, then that number needs to be refined or corrected upwards in the calculation above that results in 6.667 expected cases if the vaccine had no influence on this.

If the 36 number represents 10% of all ITP cases (detected or undetected, i.e. the "new cases" in The2Billies' calculation) amongst vaccinated people for example, then the 6.667 is doubled. That paints a more favorable picture on the vaccin's safety risk for ITP, but would still show that vaccinated people are more likely to get ITP than unvaccinated people. To equalize the 6.667 and 36 numbers, so that one can say that these 2 vaccins cause no increased risk for ITP, the 36 number would have to represent 27% of all ITP cases amongst vaccinated people (in the calculation of my previous comment that is, using the other estimates).

If you want to go higher than the 5% I suggested to use as a basis, one may want to answer the question as to why a doctor would diagnose someone with ITP who has no severe bleeding issues (would someone even go to the doctor then? Would a doctor check for ITP or take any other action that could lead to a diagnosis of ITP?).* I think assuming that the 36 number in the OP only represents 5% of actual ITP cases amongst vaccinated people (the ones with "severe bleeding"), is not that far-fetched. It's possibly not much higher if it is. Also, because of the time delay between receiving the vaccine and detection and reporting of the presence of ITP.

*: this could be because a vaccinated person is already being monitored by a doctor who then detects ITP by other means then observing "severe bleeding", then they would be included in the 36 number but fall outside of the 5% with "severe bleeding"; and in that case, the 5% factor in my calculation should be higher than 5%. But perhaps the amount of instances of these sort of scenarios, are negated by the number of vaccinated people who experience "severe bleeding" because of ITP but never go to the doctor, are never tested or checked for ITP, and therefore never detected as part of the 36 number. All this just goes to show how hard (and perhaps futile) it is to try to compare numbers that are incomparable because they do not represent the same thing. "Prevalence" does not represent "new cases", and the 36 detected and reported cases in the OP do not represent all the "new cases" on an annual basis (including those that have not been detected), it may just be the bleeders. You'll have to do some converting of the numbers to make them more comparable, and that includes a lot of estimates based on assumptions if only given the numbers so far shared in this thread by means of linked publications or news articles.

My choices of estimates were not very favorable to the vaccin in my previous comment, but that was just to show that you could also go in the other direction than The2Billies did with his 2500 expected cases (based on 32M people), which was very unrealistic cause that was for a whole year, unlike the time we've had for actual cases to be detected and reported amongst vaccinated people (the 36 number being compared with).

Of course, the most impacting factors in my calculation of the previous comment, are the 5% and # vaccinated people * timeframe, the most tricky ones to estimate based on the numbers available in this thread. And if "prevalence" does not reflect "new cases" anually, then that last factor (2nd in the equation earlier, the 0.01% based on The2Billies link) for calculating the expected cases remains an unknown. Again, just showing that I have too much time to waste on a calculation that I earlier already indicated as being "perhaps somewhat meaningless".

In any case, my fingerspitzengefühl tells me that 36 is a lot for such a short timeframe considering so many people have been vaccinated who have never undergone any tests regarding ITP, meaning many more than 36 could have ITP related issues that remain undetected and unnoticed. Besides, that 36 number is possibly only a portion of people that have been diagnosed with ITP and flagged as vaccinated as well (possibly because they are registered in another database or collection of data than the 36 number is taken from, or the vaccination data is improperly matched with the ITP diagnosis data, i.e. when collecting the 36 number of diagnosed ITP patients, they looked at more people diagnosed with ITP, but didn't notice these were also vaccinated because that data was stored elsewhere, somewhere they didn't check or match for it; or the vaccination data wasn't filled in yet, or someone who was diagnosed with ITP simply didn't mention they were vaccinated, then that data doesn't get filled in where the ITP data is stored, and the patient will fall outside of the 36 number that have been confirmed to be both vaccinated and have ITP).

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: trollz

I deal with customers all day for work on the phone.

I've heard sad stories about dead loved ones to many times. Don't even understand why people feel the need to tell me that stuff.

But today for the first time I was told by some one that just tested positive two days ago why they got tested.
They had lost their sense of taste and smell. that was the only symptom. Been a week like that so far.
Will it ever come back?

Weeks, months, years, a life without taste or smell?
# getting covid.

Yes, the senses of taste and smell will come back. 12 people I know who tested positive for covid-19 had only one symptom: the loss of taste and smell. They came back, for every single person.

This thing is less harmful than the common cold.

a reply to: dragonlover12

I`m sharing what I have learned about ITP so that maybe it can help someone who reads the news reports to better have a grasp of what the disease is.

Thank you.

Terribly sorry to hear of husband's illness.

Cheers

a reply to: dragonridr


ahem ...

...and will cure on its own.

Then it says he had a brain hemorrhage a stroke in other words and died.

Again this wouldnt be related to the virus its caused by high blood pressure and hyper tension. [...] There is no way to prove this is even connected to the shots much less the cause.

that's Only Your Conclusion...thanks for sharing BUT don't be such a Luddite !




i had a brain hemorrhage back in 1997... coincindentally only 48 hours after being bit by a Black Widow Spider and getting treated at the same Baptist Hospital only 48 hours later for a brain hemorrhage from a vein Aneurism (burst vein) high-blood-pressure (as U say)

No ---- > the real cause was the Black Widow Spider bites on my big toe...
which set into motion the swollen foot-&-leg, the resulting hypertension and Aneurism afflictions

i suggest the immunization concoction may not in itself cause these bad reactions ...

but the fetal cells from an aborted human, male baby and the organ tissue from a spider-monkey are definite factors to investigate as being the root cause for this lethal immunization to COVID-virus

and i will refuse the concoction put into my boy no matter the penalties the Big Brother Elites impose on me-the-refuser !!


no contact groceries can be delivered via WalMart grocery, i am already house-bound/disabled/hemiplegic to a degree...i have no needs for a 'passport' or 'travel' permit or whatever the Biden gestapo imposes on us refusers who refuse the vaccine and/or the waiver that absolves Big Pharma from lawsuits about the damaging COVID shots forced upon us






this video says April will be open season for immunization hold-outs

the first 1:40 seconds i All you need to hear

see: www.msn.com...


sounds like a Mandate to ne .... a Forceful mandate by a oppressor

a reply to: tanstaafl

So what is this cure for obesity then?

As a short, fat, bald guy, can you also suggest anything to help my height and hairline?

On topic: I'm going to give this vaccine a miss, I think. I'm not anti-vax at all, but this one just ain't had the time to be tested properly and I don't trust it one bit!

I work an an elderly retirement home where the average age is around ~90 years.

We've had a few outbreaks, each was handled wonderfully with minimal if any actual casualties.

All has been calm and well for a few weeks now, haven't had a single positive case, and haven't seen an ambulance in a while.


However, last saturday, our residents got their vaccination; over 1000 residents got the shot.

I was concerned for them, but was made glad when speaking to them and seeing little to no adverse effect.

However, since saturday, we have had at least 1 ambulance come in everyday for complications. Furthermore, the nursing staff seemed to be slightly overwhelmed with calls from the residents since saturday.


I can't in all good conscience call this vaccine a killer.

But it seems to have made things slightly worse, not better.

I am now concerned about their upcoming second dose that is to come soon.



I'm not impressed by this 'cure'...

Much like the confinement measures, the solution seems worse than the problem.

The greatest outcome from this 'vaccination' is to the morale of those with no side effects; like a placebo.



The 'real' virus is Mass Fear.

The 'real' solution is absolute surrender in faith.

Choose your lords, and live as you please, serving those you deem worthy to Rule.


It's your life to live.
Your choices to make.
Your faith to suffer.

Too bad about those becoming sick from the injection.

Fools rush in where wise men fear to go....

originally posted by: dragonlover12
a reply to: trollz

The disease in question is ITP. Its an auto immune disease that makes your body seek out and destroy its own platelets.
The patients that were treated with high doses of steroids were lucky that it worked---in many cases it does not.
I am all too familiar with ITP--- my husband has been fighting it for 18 months now, requiring weekly visits to the hematologist/oncologist for CBC/Diff tests and weekly shots of Nplate (a horribly expensive drug that stimulates the patient`s body to overproduce platelets in an effort to have more than the immune system can destroy) . And requires a patient to be on a high protien/high iron intake diet that is expensive as well. And he also is on steroids (has been the whole time). Every waking moment becomes consumed with worry about what the platelet numbers are at that moment, and worry about watching for any signs of spontaneous bleeding. To say it turns life into a hellish experience is an understatement.

Wow

Sorry for the hardships and stress you 2 have to endure..is there light at the end of the tunnel, will it go away or be cured at some point?

Are you daft?
You can't compare case rates of this disease side effect back to 2015 because the new vaccine didn't exist until like a year ago.

a reply to: The2Billies

And the second dose is worse. My wife's bosses all got it (healthcare) and they had to stay home for a day or two it was so bad, and they are only in their 40s and 50s let alone 90s.

a reply to: iammrhappy86

good, informative Article here:

see: www.lewrockwell.com...

Sources and References
1 CDC.gov Immunizations: The Basics, Definition of Terms
2 Cornell University 15 US Code Subchapter 1: Federal Trade Commission(section 41)
3 FTC.gov Warning Letter (gene therapy & chemotherapy BUT NOT vaccine)
4 Justia Jacobson v. Massachusetts 1905
5 United States Patent 7279327 April 19, 2002
6 S.993 Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989

my signature tells of allergy to the concoction called (falsely termed a vaccine) a 'gene therapy chemotherapy' by the big Pharma corps. themselves


my flu & virus immunizations are listed as not possible in my VA health profile/warning...
evidently the SARS-CovD-2 serum contains polyethelene glycol which myself and 70% of people are allergic to...

(i have mortal allergy to eggs and mild allergy to Peony bush flowers also


i hope the ATS members read the linked Article from the Lew Rockwell site (credible-authentic)... it might help you escape the Peoples' Temple koolade known as the 'COVID Shot' pushed by Fauci/CDC/WHO and the china peoples party

a reply to: vonclod

Thanks ... as with any autoimmune disease each case is different. The goal for my husband is to get him into "remission" --- at that point his body will be making enough platelets on its own to outnumber the immune sysytem. Remission can last an hour, a day , a week, a month or the rest of his life ---no one knows since each case is different.

For the first time since this started, for the last few weeks his platelet levels are in the lowest of the normal range ---sounds good, right? We have no way of knowing what will happen next (not feeling great since he had to miss his weekly shot due to the ice storm forcing closure of the oncologists office today --- probably won`t get another shot til late next week) since he is still on prednisone and the Nplate shots. Until the doctor can get him off of the steroids, and then start reducing the amount per shot of the Nplate we won`t have any idea what the real situation is.

This will be part of him for the rest of his life. Its much like any other chronic disease--- he was great one minute and now has this "thing" controlling his life. He didn`t do anything to cause it, just unlucky I guess. His immune system has always been one of his greatest assets, now its his biggest enemy. And my enemy as well. I pray every night for healing for him, and that we can then get "our lives back" . I`m an artist, and the constant stress and anxiety have an impact on me as well--- much of the time my hands are shaking too much to make the 1/12th miniatures I love . And he is a heavy equipment mechanic --- obviously having to worry about a scratch or cut becomes almost overwhelming for him.

I am not sharing this with you all out of a "need for sympathy" or anything other than a first hand account of what life with ITP is like ---- since there is a question about it being a possible side effect of a vaccine, and since it is so rare a condition I hope it will help with the subject.

I came to ATS looking for information after the fracking earthquakes started here in Arkansas, and honestly it has been the best place to find info anywhere I`ve found. I hope that sharing my information about ITP will help someone as much as I was helped with my search for all things earthquake related

a reply to: dragonlover12

Thank you for sharing! and I hope all goes as well as can be, going forward.

Ps..I like to build scale car models sometimes, my eyesight not so great, but I love the 1/12th scale, easiest for me to do now.

originally posted by: dragonlover12
a reply to: trollz

The disease in question is ITP. Its an auto immune disease that makes your body seek out and destroy its own platelets.
The patients that were treated with high doses of steroids were lucky that it worked---in many cases it does not.
I am all too familiar with ITP--- my husband has been fighting it for 18 months now, requiring weekly visits to the hematologist/oncologist for CBC/Diff tests and weekly shots of Nplate (a horribly expensive drug that stimulates the patient`s body to overproduce platelets in an effort to have more than the immune system can destroy) . And requires a patient to be on a high protien/high iron intake diet that is expensive as well. And he also is on steroids (has been the whole time). Every waking moment becomes consumed with worry about what the platelet numbers are at that moment, and worry about watching for any signs of spontaneous bleeding. To say it turns life into a hellish experience is an understatement.

My daughter had a bout of that when she was 14. Her platelets dropped to 2,000 (2,000 was the actual count, not the abbreviated count like '2' used today) by the time she was transported to a major hospital here in Michigan for treatment. She was given some ungodly expensive shot of something but came out of it fine so far. That was sixteen years ago.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: dragonlover12

Thank you for sharing! and I hope all goes as well as can be, going forward.

Ps..I like to build scale car models sometimes, my eyesight not so great, but I love the 1/12th scale, easiest for me to do now.

I've been building 1:24 & 1:25 model cars and trucks for over fifty years. My hands aren't quite as steady as they used to be but so far with reading glasses I can still work on them.

a reply to: HalWesten

I`m so glad she is well ! Younger people tend to respond better to treatment, thankfully!

a reply to: HalWesten
Off topic ---please forgive, but happy needs to be here too!
I love models cars too

My artwork goes in a different direction--- 1/12th scale dollhouses, art dolls, and flowers .

And reading glasses at 3x (LOL so far anyway... hubby swears I`ll make myself go blind working on the minis)

When I do get to work on them, it is the best "therapy" I have .

Best wishes