Right-Wing Governments Are Winning at Shots in Arms; NYT Has the Sads

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: darkbake

(even though the Bible warns against congregating during an epidemic)

Would you be so kind as to give chapter and verse? I've read the whole thing several times, and never saw that.

Thanks in advance.

TheRedneck

I guess you don't know the Bible as well as you pretend to. Did you think I was making that up? I came across it in my research a while ago. I appreciate your gratitude in advance, hopefully it was legitimate, as I did what you asked.

I'm not surprised religious people thousands of years ago had more common sense than you all these days. You've lost your way.

Do you really think God is just going to hand you health and prosperity without you putting in work and responsibility yourself?

Repeatedly in the Books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, the nation of Israel is commanded how to deal with pestilence and plagues when they come. Genuine repentance, atonement and turning back to God in a healthy, Biblical relationship are the most important directives. Yet the Lord also instructs the nation of Israel about the vital importance of personal hygiene and social distancing in combatting infectious diseases such as leprosy (see Leviticus chapters 13-15).

Johsua Fund

a reply to: Flavian

In the US, they are actually trying to get the vaccine into BIPOC communities first, and there is the skepticism you mention from those communities.

There is good reason in those communities to be skeptical too as it is a dark blot on history that the government would engage in unethical medical experimentation on those same communities without their knowledge. Look up the Tuskegee Experiment sometime, but in brief, they told a bunch of poor blacks that they were going to get free, told notch health care, but what they were really doing was monitoring what happened when someone was infected with syphilis and the disease was allowed to progress unchecked. All those poor people thought they were receiving top of the line treatment when really nothing was being done for them and they were being allowed to rot for "science".



It's enough to make you cry.

So they have good reason to feel like they don't want to be Guinea pigs because they've been used that way before, and the press was all full of not trusting the "Trump vaccine" and how Trump was a white supremacist not too many months ago, but now they're supposed to trust it?

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: KansasGirl

Yesterday the reported total of new cases in the state I live in was under 550.

That’s nice, but we can’t know whether that number is good, bad, or indifferent, unless we know approximately how many people there are in your state.

Are you assuming there are states with less than 500,000 people? Is this the boomer math that they all say is so great?

a reply to: darkbake

I've read those rules.

They aren't about the entire community isolating itself. They are all about traditional quarantine which is about isolating only the infected.

We aren't doing that. We're isolating everyone, healthy and infected alike, in the vain attempt to keep anyone and everyone from catching a disease with a 99%+ recovery rate in every demographic but the very, very elderly.

a reply to: Tekner

Psst, it's 6.1 million.

Less than 550 cases in a state of more than 6 million is pretty good odds.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: darkbake

I've read those rules.

They aren't about the entire community isolating itself. They are all about traditional quarantine which is about isolating only the infected.

We aren't doing that. We're isolating everyone, healthy and infected alike, in the vain attempt to keep anyone and everyone from catching a disease with a 99%+ recovery rate in every demographic but the very, very elderly.

That is a reasonable argument.

But conservatives pretending COVID19 doesn't exist isn't. Conservatives refusing to wear masks is silly. It shows a lack of responsibility and even an entitled attitude. How does wearing a mask harm anyone? And yes, I know the lies about how masks don't work... of course they are not going to be 100% effective. But every little bit helps.

In addition, Covid19 spreads asymptomatically, so just isolating the infected does not work.

Also - your statement is not true. Covid19 does not JUST kill the very elderly like you said. It kills others - like those with asthma or diabetes or those who are overweight. Even perfectly healthy people die of the disease.

Thanks for engaging in discussion.

a reply to: ketsuko

A common problem seems to be a focus on process rather than on getting shots into arms. Some progressive leaders are effectively sacrificing efficiency for what they consider to be equity.

And there you have it! It only APPEARS that right wing jurisdictions are doing better on the basis of lying statistics when in FACT they are doing much worse because they havent prioritized who gets the shot; they havent been equitable in the distribution of the vaccines. They have followed a path that insures too many more oppressive, colonial, racist, cis-gendered White people get the vaccine as opposed to following a plan that insures such people are far back at the end of the que in favor of the far more important victim classes of people.

a reply to: ketsuko


Well I can tell you this much how things have progressed in my southern GA area, first everybody were screaming for the vaccine, then most of the vaccinated soo far has been elderly African Americans, as they became the target of the vaccine, then last night was advertised in the news that centers were open for vaccination for all but in the background the places were empty, nobody in line waiting for vaccine, I found this very interesting.

Most of the people I know, family and friends said they will not get it.

a reply to: darkbake

Did you think I was making that up? I came across it in my research a while ago.

No, I legitimately asked. You see, your statement seemed to fly in the face of another passage (and I'll specify which passage: Hebrews 10:23-25).

Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Bolding mine of course.

For future reference, I asked for chapter and verse, as I gave above (and I didn't even expect you to quote the passage(s) as I did). What I got was a paper written by Joel C. Rosenberg. Now, Joel may be a godly man and all... I make no aspersions on his character as I do not follow him specifically... but he is not one of the authors of the Bible. His paper is not a part of the Bible. You stated that there were passages in the Bible that said we were to forsake church assembly during an epidemic (or as the Bible calls it, a plague).

But, you did excerpt where ol' Joel mentions Leviticus 13-15. So I looked it up. Nowhere does it say people are to stop gathering. Those three chapters explain how individuals with a contagious disease are to go to the priest, not stay away from the priest, and how the priest is to conduct their cleansing. It has nothing to do with not going to church, as neither does Joel Rosenberg's paper. It seems more interested in explaining how disease may be punishment from God.

I can only assume you agree that the Chinese virus is then a punishment from God of some sort. I respectfully disagree, as I do not believe God punishes us so much as He allows us to harm ourselves in our own earthy ignorance.

I am curious: when you research the Bible, do you actually read the passages for yourself or just take what other men say on faith? Another verse comes to mind when asking that question, Deuteronomy 4:2.

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Or how about Deuteronomy 12:32?

What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Again, bolding mine.

I appreciate your gratitude in advance, hopefully it was legitimate, as I did what you asked.

It was legitimate. I am concerned when I think I may have missed (or maybe forgotten) a passage that is especially applicable to present conditions. However, no such passage has been put forward by you. Leviticus 13-15 never mentions the gathering of worship services, but it does mention that priests are to deal with those afflicted by plagues. I don't think they had long-distance communication when Leviticus was written, so it's a safe bet the Biblical authors were not thinking about the priests using Zoom.

So while I do thank you for pointing out the passages you referred to, albeit quite indirectly, I must state that your assertion is not consistent with the passages you put forth.

I'm not surprised religious people thousands of years ago had more common sense than you all these days. You've lost your way.

Actually, Leviticus 13-15 pretty clearly states what I do if someone is infectious... watch whatever they have come in contact with, as it can also carry the infection, maintain a safe distance as much as practical, and insist the infected party not cough or sneeze on anyone else (that's the purpose of having the cloth hanging from the upper lip). I do not believe people in ancient times all wore cloths from heir upper lip because a few people in the town had a very bad cold, nor do I think they decreed which shops could open and which ones could not based on whether or not someone in government thought they were "essential." I'm certain they did not prevent people from going to healers, since the passages you specified specifically state that the afflicted are to go to a priest (who was also the healer in those days). But today, any need for medical care is difficult to get, especially if someone is medically incapable of handling a restriction on breathing; I recently had to have blood drawn for testing in the hospital parking lot!

Do you really think God is just going to hand you health and prosperity without you putting in work and responsibility yourself?

Exactly where did I ever state that?

Did Joel Rosenberg write something about it?

TheRedneck

a reply to: darkbake

Conservatives refusing to wear masks is silly.

So you believe that my choosing to not become comatose is silly?

That's not a "gotcha," sir. It is a legitimate question. Why do you believe that I should endanger my health for you?

Some people cannot wear masks.

TheRedneck

a reply to: ketsuko
The Tuskegee experiment looks monstrous. Having said that, i would be amazed if most nations hadn't undertaken similar actions at some point. It is a sometimes unpalatable truth that medical progress comes from experimentation. Not that i necesserally agree with it, more that i can understand its usefulness in the past, before modern technology.

Anyhow, back to the topic, there is data to suggest that the Rona hits BAME communities more - at least here in Britain. There could be many reasons for this and the Left over here have certainly seized on links between this higher rate and poverty levels. It may well be an issue.

However, i also saw one of the SAGE scientists on very late night news over here saying that there seemed to be a link between BAME communities suffering more because, essentially, of British winters! It seems the reduced sunlight in winter leaves BAME people less able to fight off Covid. To be honest, it was all very over my head science wise but the scientist was showing loads of the data they are working with directly from the government and the links at least appear genuine.

Since that interview though, there hasn't been a word about it over here.

a reply to: darkbake

Now you are saying conservatives don't believe in the disease. That is also untrue. What we don't believe in is the necessity of the severe restrictions being imposed on society in the name of combatting it.

There is a disease, and like most illnesses, it can kill some people. The thing is that most diseases are like that, even rhinovirus is like that.

The question with any disease is its severity. With this one, for most people it just isn't terribly severe. In fact, it's so bad that most people don't even know they have it. We know that children under the age of puberty don't have an easy time catching it, they don't get it severely, and they don't tend to pass it on very easily either (so they should be back in school).

We know that your risk increases with age and with certain conditions, but that is also true of other illnesses like the flu.

By now, we know enough to know who is likely to be at real risk and who should be protected. We know enough to know that it's only certain narrow groups that need to be taking special precautions in life, and that the rest of us ought to be living our lives in most capacities instead of hiding out at home in a government imposed quarantine.

Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine???? NAAH. Impeachment, impeachment, impeachment. Now laugh about it because that's their mindset.

Just look at the wasted doses. It explains it all. In New York State, there's fines and penalties if you give the vaccine to people outside of those that the State says can have it. One of the vaccines, once you open the bottle, you have to use it all or throw it away. So say you close at 5:00 PM and at 4:00 PM a person on the approved list comes for their vaccine. To give them their shot, you have to break out a new bottle. If you have no one else on the list to give a shot to , you have to throw away the rest of the bottle instead of having some people on a wait list you can give it to.

It is simple. The Liberal States are more concerned with the demographics of who can get the vaccine than they are about actually getting people the vaccine.

A few months ago I was at our local VA. A couple of people who worked there were talking about how the VA was going to administer their doses. One guy said that they had to give it to minorities first to avoid being accused of racism and "white privilege". I reminded him of the Tuskegee Experiment and said that it wouldn't be a good idea.

a reply to: JIMC5499


Wow, that is sad but hilarious at the same time, I guess been latina and a "minority" will put me on top of the food chain this days, I will gladly give my position on the top to any democrat that wants the shot.

a reply to: marg6043

I had a real bad infection several years ago. My Doctor, who I trust, advised me to get it. I get my second shot on Friday.