Rapture 2021 - 2022 - Get ready.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
The Rapture theory was cooked up long after the Bible was written, and IIRC, it was part of the RCC's counter-reformation. Prove me wrong.

Well, it's actually in the bible. It's part of the 6th seal of Revelation and Matthew 24.

Matthew 24.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6 and 7
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
****

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

So where did the great multitude come from?

a reply to: ShortBus

"Just because someone describes what they see in clear detail, doesn't mean they invented it."

Nor does it mean its true. The temple is within. Not in an external event like the rapture. Rapture promotes fear for self preservation. God promotes realization that our true self is love. I see one as dark, the other light.

a reply to: ntech

the multitude is those who have already died before.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The words are caught up.

1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In 2Thess 1 it is gathered together

2 Thess 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Taken gives an understanding of something violent and against the will of those taken as we see in Matthew and Luke.

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luke 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The context of these verses is a coming future JUDGEMENT.

The reason for the RSV changes it is they think that the event of 1Thess 4:17 and this event in Matthew and Luke are the same event. Wrongly joining is not rightly dividing. However it is the event of Rev 14 one thrusting in their sickle for a ripe harvest to press out blood that will fill the valley in the Tribulation.

Rev 14:15-20 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Their error is not believing the word of God and not studying the way the Bible tells us to study.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Jesus did say the HOUR and the DAY no man knows. But the Month, season or year seem to be up for contesting.

Never the less come Lord Jesus.

a reply to: ShortBus

I say God will do as He wills as it pleases Him.

If that means He will gather up His own prior to pouring out His wrath, then He will. It is certainly within His power to do so.

Whether or not He does remains to be seen. I will wait and pray either way.

a reply to: shaneslaughta
No one knows how to speak Koine Greek, it like Latin, is a dead language.

Part of the problem is that many did not know and as time went on they began substituting the Classical Greek Language and meaning of words on the Koine.

originally posted by: ntech

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
The Rapture theory was cooked up long after the Bible was written, and IIRC, it was part of the RCC's counter-reformation. Prove me wrong.

Well, it's actually in the bible. It's part of the 6th seal of Revelation and Matthew 24.

Matthew 24.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6 and 7
12And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
****

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

So where did the great multitude come from?

I don't see in any of that an indication of a "secret rapture." Again - prove me wrong.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

The problem with interpretation, as I learned in earning an English degree, is that they are open. Proving, disproving ... doesn't matter. For every 20 people who see it one way, you'll find another 20 who see it the other.

You are more than welcome to believe there won't be one.

The important thing though is to have faith. If you have faith, and your name is written in the book, then it won't matter if your interpretation is right or wrong on this. Nowhere does it say, "Believe in the Rapture and be saved." It only says in believe in Him and be saved.

The Rapture is the release of energy globally when 6+Billion People die at almost the same time.... .

Not something you want on your Bucket List.

Imagine a Species wide "OH No We Are #@cked" moment.

The brief moment of silence.

Then BOOM.

Rapture.

a reply to: Akragon

and 1 john 5:7 was an addition to the text by the way...

That is very interesting. Would you care to share your remark as to how ,when, and where this addition took place? I would be interested in knowing who and what MSS were involved in this forgery.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I never thought it was secret myself. It was mentioned in various places. Just historically the concept sort of fell out of favor and mostly forgotton.

But as I posted above the Rapture or gathering up of the elect is a major part of the start of the day of the Lord/day of the Lamb event that was predicted to happen as far back as various old testament prophesies.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Akragon

and 1 john 5:7 was an addition to the text by the way...

That is very interesting. Would you care to share your remark as to how ,when, and where this addition took place? I would be interested in knowing who and what MSS were involved in this forgery.

Im sure you know exactly what im talking about brother...

when and where... who knows... sometime within the first 200 some odd years of the original author when said trinity started to become popular...

en.wikipedia.org...

I prefer Blondie’s interpretation of Rapture. I like Heart of Glass better, though.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Akragon

and 1 john 5:7 was an addition to the text by the way...

That is very interesting. Would you care to share your remark as to how ,when, and where this addition took place? I would be interested in knowing who and what MSS were involved in this forgery.

Im sure you know exactly what im talking about brother...

en.wikipedia.org...

when and where... who knows... sometime within the first 200 some odd years of the original author when said trinity started to become popular...

As long as you're on the subject. I took a look through the old testament to see if there was a reference to that trinity and didn't really see it. BUT... Big but there. I did find a different trinity mentioned. I wonder if this trinity is the one John was trying to reference and garbled it?

But anyway the trinity I found is in the book of Zechariah. It mentions that the Lord has two branches or personal assistants, It's also predicted that each branch is supposed to rebuild a version of the Jewish temple. Also in the book of Malachi they are referenced as the messenger and the messenger of the covenant. And in the book of Genesis when Abram met with the Lord for the first time he was accompanied by two "angels" supposedly. I would pose the 2 angels were the branches.

So anyway it seems there is at least one trinity surrounding the Godhead. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost version I didn't see in the old testament however, lack of proof doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man so that would be 2 of them.

But a thought out of left field here. In Revelation there is mentioned a manchild that would be attacked by Satan but would be taken up to heaven. So, what if "God" is actually in the process of procreation. And the "holy spirit" is actually the before birth version of the manchild? So the trinity is technically incomplete right now but they are working on it? : )

a reply to: ntech

Personally i believe it was something that was added to the text to promote the idea that God is three in one, which would help convince followers of other religions that also had a trinity to buy in...

Revelation was added to the canon for the same reason... it clearly equates Jesus with God whereas Jesus himself never said that according to what is written about him in the gospels...

Same goes for Matthew 28:19... the great commission... that no one ever actually did... Thus... he probably didn't actually say it to begin with

a reply to: Akragon

The "great commission" makes sense if you look at it this way. What happened in the first century was a botched Apocalypse. John the Baptist as Elijah the Prophet wasn't supposed to die. Rather he was supposed to have been present when Jesus Christ unloaded on the money changers and was supposed to have been a co-messiah. Along with the 2 branches which Elijah may have been one of. Basically it appears this caught Jesus Christ off guard as it appears he didn't expect it to happen. His original mission was to the tribes of Israel. Not the world.

Also this event appears to be the trigger that started the curse of Malachi and the day of Jezreel prophecy in Hosea. Israel was slammed with a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. And because of the curse is why Christianity was necessary.
A way to circumvent the curse was needed. So it's the rescue mission because Judaism is out of commission and unable to do the intended job. Essentially Jesus Christ was handed a basket of lemons so he made lemonade. It's a kludge!

And the intended job appears to be conquering the world by genetics. Making everyone a descendant of Abraham. But according to Romans 11 it appears they added the adoption angle. Become a Christian and you are a grafted twig into the olive tree. The family tree of Abraham.

a reply to: ntech

Wrote a thread on it a few years back.... have a look

The command that wasn't followed

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
...
Adam and Eve (First man/woman made with spirit inside) - Nisan. (Other people on planet without spirit.... Neanderthal is one race...etc.. )

Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ruʹach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ruʹach, or spirit.

Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ruʹach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ruʹach; but the word translated soul is neʹphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ruʹach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

Does conscious life continue for a person after the spirit leaves the body?

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ruʹach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render ruʹach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)

... The word “rapture” is understood by some persons, but not by all, to be the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 4:17. ...
When the apostle Paul said that Christians would be “caught up” to be with the Lord, what subject was being discussed?

1 Thess. 4:13-18, RS: “We would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep [“those who sleep in death,” NE; “those who have died,” TEV, JB], that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.” (Evidently some members of the Christian congregation in Thessalonica had died. Paul encouraged the survivors to comfort one another with the resurrection hope. He reminded them that Jesus was resurrected after his death; so, too, at the coming of the Lord, those faithful Christians among them who had died would be raised to be with Christ.)

Who are the ones that will be ‘caught up in the clouds,’ as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:17?

Verse 15 explains that they are faithful ones “who are left until the coming of the Lord,” that is, they are still living at the time of Christ’s coming. Will they ever die? According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 (quoted on pages 314, 315), they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return. They will instantly be “caught up,” “in the twinkling of an eye,” to be with the Lord.—1 Cor. 15:51, 52, RS; also Revelation 14:13.

Will Christ appear visibly on a cloud and then take away faithful Christians into the heavens while the world looks on?

Did Jesus say whether the world would see him again with their physical eyes?

John 14:19, RS: “Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more, but you [his faithful disciples] will see me; because I live, you will live also.” (Italics added.) (Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.)

What is the meaning of the Lord’s ‘descending from heaven’?

Could the Lord “descend from heaven,” as stated at 1 Thessalonians 4:16, without being visible to physical eyes? In the days of ancient Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah said that he was going to “go down to see” what the people were doing. (Gen. 18:21, RS) But when Jehovah made that inspection, no human saw him, although they did see the angelic representatives that he sent. (John 1:18) Similarly, without having to return in the flesh, Jesus could turn his attention to his faithful followers on earth to reward them.

In what sense, then, will humans “see” the Lord “coming in a cloud”?

Jesus foretold: “Then they will see the Son of man [Jesus Christ] coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” (Luke 21:27, RS) In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19. Consider: At Mount Sinai, what occurred when God ‘came to the people in a thick cloud,’ as stated at Exodus 19:9? (RS) God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come “in a cloud,” he must have meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence. They would “see” him with their mental eyes, discerning the fact that he was present. (For further comments, see the main heading “Return of Christ.”)

Is it possible for Christians to be taken to heaven with their physical bodies?

1 Cor. 15:50, RS: “I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Does the experience of the prophet Elijah contradict this? Not at all. It must be understood in the light of Jesus’ clear statement centuries later: “No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13, RS) Although Elijah was seen as he “went up by a whirlwind into heaven,” this does not mean that he went into the spirit realm. Why not? Because he is later reported as sending a letter of reproof to the king of Judah. (2 Ki. 2:11, RS; 2 Chron. 21:1, 12-15) Before humans invented airplanes, Jehovah there used his own means (a fiery chariot and a whirlwind) to lift Elijah off the ground into the heaven where the birds fly and to transport him to another place.—Compare Genesis 1:6-8, 20.

Will faithful Christians perhaps be taken to heaven secretly, simply disappearing from the earth without dying?

Rom. 6:3-5, RS: “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? . . . For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.” (What occurred in the case of Jesus set the pattern. His disciples as well as others knew he had died. He was not restored to heavenly life until after his death and resurrection.)

1 Cor. 15:35, 36, 44, RS: “Some one will ask, ‘How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?’ You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body.” (So death comes before one receives that spiritual body, does it not?)

Will all faithful Christians be taken miraculously from the earth by the Lord before the great tribulation?

Matt. 24:21, 22: “Then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.” (This does not say that “the chosen ones” will all have been taken to heaven before the great tribulation, does it? Rather, it holds out the prospect to them, along with associates in the flesh, of surviving that great tribulation on earth.)

Rev. 7:9, 10, 14, RS: “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!’ . . . ‘These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.’” (To “come out” of something a person must go into it or be in it. So this great multitude must be persons who actually experience the great tribulation and come out of it as survivors.) (Regarding their being on earth, see pages 167, 168.)

...

Source: Rapture (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

originally posted by: Akragon

and 1 john 5:7 was an addition to the text by the way...

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Akragon

That is very interesting. Would you care to share your remark as to how ,when, and where this addition took place? I would be interested in knowing who and what MSS were involved in this forgery.

Common knowledge:

The Story of an Interpolation—1 John 5:7, 8 (article from 1964)

MODERN scholars do not hesitate to omit from their Bible translations the spurious passage found at First John 5:7, 8. After the words “For there are three witness bearers” this added passage reads, “in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. [Verse 8] And there are three witness bearers on earth.” (Omitted by the American Standard Version, An American Translation, English Revised Version, Moffatt, New English Bible, Phillips, Rotherham, Revised Standard Version, Schonfield, Wade, Wand, Weymouth, etc.) Commenting on these words, the famous scholar and prelate B. F. Westcott said, “The words which are interpolated in the common Greek text in this passage offer an instructive illustration of the formation and introduction of a gloss into the apostolic text.”1 So what is the story behind this passage, and how did the science of textual criticism finally show it to be no part of God’s inspired Word, the Holy Bible?

WHEN THE PASSAGE FIRST APPEARS

With the falling away from true Christianity came the rise of much controversy regarding the doctrine of the trinity, yet, though these words would have been most pertinent, early church writers never once used them. Verses six to eight of First John chapter five are quoted by Hesychius, Leo called the Great, and Ambrose among the Latins; and Cyril of Alexandria, Oecumenius, Basil, Gregory of Nazianzus and Nicetus among the Greeks, to name just a few, but the words in question never appear in the quotations. As an example, the anonymous work entitled “Of Rebaptising,” written about A.D. 256, states, “For John teaching us says in his epistle (1 John 5:6, 7, 8) ‘This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.’”2 Even Jerome did not have it in his Bible. A prologue attributed to him that defended the text has been proved to be a false one.

The “comma Johanneum,” as this spurious addition is usually called, first appears in the works of Priscillian, leader of a sect in Spain near the end of the fourth century A.D.3 During the fifth century it was included in a confession of faith presented to Hunneric, king of the Vandals, and it is quoted in the Latin works of Vigilius of Thapsus, in varying forms. It is found in the work entitled “Contra Varimadum” composed between 445 and 450 (A.D.), and Fulgentius, an African bishop, used it a little later.

Until then the “comma” had appeared as an interpretation of the genuine words recorded in the eighth verse, but once it had become established in this way, it next began to be written in as a gloss in the margin of Latin Bible manuscripts. But a marginal gloss can easily be construed as an omission from the genuine text, and so in later manuscripts it is interlined, then finally it became an integral part of the Latin text, though its position in consequence varies, and it is sometimes before the eighth verse and sometimes after it. (Compare John Wesley’s New Testament where the seventh verse follows the eighth.) An interesting survey made some years ago of 258 Latin Bible manuscripts in the National Library of Paris showed the progressive absorption of this interpolation through the centuries.

[Chart]

Century [followed by] Number omitting the interpolation

9th 7 out of 10, or 70%

10th 3 out of 4, or 75%

11th 3 out of 5, or 60%

12th 2 out of 15, or 13%

13th 5 out of 118, or 4%

14th-16th 1 out of 106, or 1%

The text was further promoted at a council held in 1215 by Pope Innocent III when a work of the Abbot Joachim on the trinity was condemned. The entire passage with the interpolation was quoted from the Latin Vulgate in the acts of the council, which were translated from Latin into Greek. From here some Greek writers took up the text, notably Calecas in the fourteenth century and Bryennius in the fifteenth.

ERASMUS AND STEPHENS

The invention of printing gave rise to much increased production of the original Bible text. The interpolation at 1 John 5:7, 8 was omitted in the Greek texts of Erasmus (1516 and 1519), Aldus Manutius (1518) and Gerbelius (1521). Desiderius Erasmus was violently attacked for not including the text, both by Edward Lee, later Archbishop of York, and J. L. Stunica, one of the editors of the Complutensian Polyglott, which had been printed in 1514 but still remained locked in the warehouse awaiting the pope’s approval. The opposition to Erasmus was based upon the view, expressed in a letter to him by Martin Dorp, that the Latin Vulgate was the official Bible and could not be in error. [whereislogic: sound familiar? It reminds me of the arguments of those who favor the KJV, or as they call it, the Authorized Version, while they take a crap on every other Bible translation, especially those not based on the KJV]

Confident that no Greek manuscript contained the “comma Johanneum,” Erasmus in reply rashly stated that if so much as one Greek manuscript could be found to contain the words he would insert them in his next edition. He was told of the early sixteenth century Codex Britannicus, better known as Codex Montfortianus (No. 61). Keeping his promise, Erasmus inserted the words in his third edition of 1522, though he appended a long note reasoning against the addition.

A closer examination of the Codex Montfortianus reveals some interesting facts. Its collator, O. T. Dobbin, wrote that the interpolation at 1 John 5:7, 8 “not only differs from the usual text, but is written in such Greek as manifestly betrays a translation from the Latin.”4 For instance, because the Latin does not have the article “the” before each of the expressions “Father,” “Son” and “holy spirit” it did not occur to the translator that the Greek would require them. So of how much worth was this codex as a Greek manuscript? The same fault is found in the other authority sometimes referred to, the Codex Ottobonianus 298 (No. 629) in Latin and Greek. In his fourth edition, of 1527, Erasmus inserted the definite articles to make the Greek text more accurate grammatically.

From now on the interpolation appeared in other Greek texts whose authors followed the editions of Erasmus. Then in 1550 further confusion occurred through the edition of Robert Stephens published that year. It contained a critical apparatus giving various readings from fifteen manuscripts and at 1 John 5:7 a semicircle points the reader to the margin, where seven manuscripts are cited as authority for the omission of three words only. Critics have demonstrated that this semicircle was misplaced, as were many other signs throughout this edition, and that it should have included for omission the entire “comma Johanneum.” But worse still, because only seven manuscripts were cited, it was assumed by many ignorant people that all the rest of Stephens’ manuscripts did include the interpolation, for they did not realize that the remaining manuscripts did not contain the epistles of John anyway. So out of a possible 100 percent (seven manuscripts) not one included the disputed words.

It was now only a short step to introduce the text into other language translations. It had already appeared in the version of Wycliffe (1380), for he translated from the Latin, having no knowledge of Greek. But now it appeared in translations made from the Greek, such as those of Tyndale and Cranmer, though it was printed in italics and set in brackets. But by the time of the Geneva version of 1557 even this distinction disappeared and the passage is set in ordinary type without brackets. So the interpolation slipped unobtrusively into the 1611 authorized King James Version.

THE BATTLE RENEWED

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