Ancient 2500 yr Old Map Shows The Lost City of Atlantis is The Eye of The Sahara

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

Homer's Scheria was a part of Atlantis. And we now know that Troy was real, devastating those who strongly believed it was a fictional place.

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Also, It's still not certain that Hisarlik is Homer's Troy. Mainly because hardly any writing has been found there. It likely is the location though, but there's no evidence of any warfare in the period attributed to Homer's Troy - yet.

Lastly, few were "devastated" by the finding of the site. Why would they be? There was already a supposed location of Troy before Hisarlik was ever excavated - Pınarbaşı.
Practically ALL of the controversy about the site was due to Schleimann acting like an idiot. And Calvert didn't help the argument before Schliemann stepped in clowning. His brother committed intentional insurance fraud and was convicted, throwing some doubt on the Calvert family (because of society at the time.)

originally posted by: DumbdownedPlato stated the reigning of Atlantis extended to Libya, Egypt and Asia (refering to part of middle east).

Plato never said that. But you wouldn't know, would you? Also - you refuse to find out what he actually said.

originally posted by: DumbdownedDo you really believe that if all of Atlantis was some little islands stuck between southern europe and northern Africa, could they have easily accessed to defeat Libya and Egypt? Plato clearly detailed the regions Atlantis already controlled in prior to war with Athens.

At the time, both Libya and Egypt were occupied by hunter-gatherer type cultures with no area-wide social structure, so why would they have wanted to, even?

originally posted by: DumbdownedSumer appears many many centuries later. Atlantis is prehistoric ~11500 BC in which modern archeologists that couldn't possible because in those days primitive men and women were roaming the jungle as hunters and gatherers.

That's what we have the evidence for. There is no evidence of Atlantis at all. So, you would prefer evidence in our possession be ignored while we support evidence that doesn't exist? Why? To satisfy your irrational need for a personal fantasy?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

I agree with almost everything you've said here. I do have a quick question though:
"I thought that Agricultural and Fishing groups had set up shop (so to speak) along the Nile Valley as far back as 12000 BC (I think they were named the Subilian People, but I may be off since I'm just spouting off the top of my swiss chees memory here. Correct me if I'm wrong), am I off about that?"

Also I agree that we may never have any evidence that the Island Kingdom of Atlantis existed, because if I'm right that the whole place was buried under that landslide from the Alps. This is why I think people should be poking around that war that was taking place between the Forces controlled by Atlantis and the forces from Attica. That war should have more than one battlefield, it was stated that it had more then one army against Attica, and so some where there should be evidence of it.

If Atlantis can be found it's going to be from incidental evidence found in other cultures about that war.

a reply to: Harte

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Lmao you're either delusional or out of touch with reality.

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?

Odysseus sailed to east of course to his hometown from Atlas that is all I know.

And you don't believe in Plato's Atlantis at all to be an actual city that existed.
It's a good fantasy story book for your bedtime.

I don't need to read your Plato's fairy tale to explain every little truths you know nothing about

a reply to: Dumbdowned

Where in the Odyssey does it say anything to that affect?

gutenberg.org/ Odyssey
From the above link in Book 5

He is to be convoyed neither by gods nor men, but after a perilous voyage of twenty days upon a raft he is to reach fertile Scheria, the land of the Phaeacians,

Under you assertion Malta would be the Island Kingdom of Atlantis. You really need to read Plato's Critias in order to understand the complex history of Atlantis.

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Lmao you're either delusional or out of touch with reality.

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?

Odysseus sailed to east of course to his hometown from Atlas that is all I know.

And you don't believe in Plato's Atlantis at all to be an actual city that existed.
It's a good fantasy story book for your bedtime.

I don't need to read your Plato's fairy tale to explain every little truths you know nothing about

Odysseus sailed east from Ogygia.

You claim here that Ogygia is west of Atlantis.
However, Ogygia (by tradition) was an island of the Maltese archipelago.

I know the Odyssey fairly well. I've only read three translations of it, more than once each,though it's been several decades since I read it. I was named after its main character.

You, on the other hand, think you don't need to read Plato to expound on a story invented by Plato.
What are you going by, the movie version?
Not the animated one, I hope.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Lmao you're either delusional or out of touch with reality.

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?

Odysseus sailed to east of course to his hometown from Atlas that is all I know.

And you don't believe in Plato's Atlantis at all to be an actual city that existed.
It's a good fantasy story book for your bedtime.

I don't need to read your Plato's fairy tale to explain every little truths you know nothing about

Odysseus sailed east from Ogygia.

You claim here that Ogygia is west of Atlantis.
However, Ogygia (by tradition) was an island of the Maltese archipelago.

I know the Odyssey fairly well. I've only read three translations of it, more than once each,though it's been several decades since I read it. I was named after its main character.

You, on the other hand, think you don't need to read Plato to expound on a story invented by Plato.
What are you going by, the movie version?
Not the animated one, I hope.

Harte

What tradition? based on faith or biased opinion?
Ogygia and Atlantis were close to each other before sunken into the sea.
Ogygia was occupied by the daughter of Titan Atlas (or you'd prefer Plato's personal version of Poseidon's son Atlas)

Does it ring a bell to you?

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Lmao you're either delusional or out of touch with reality.

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?

Odysseus sailed to east of course to his hometown from Atlas that is all I know.

And you don't believe in Plato's Atlantis at all to be an actual city that existed.
It's a good fantasy story book for your bedtime.

I don't need to read your Plato's fairy tale to explain every little truths you know nothing about

What? you dont need to read the only person who ever mentioned atlantis to know it exists? Wow i think that the dumbest thing ive ever heard. You entered into an argument about Atlantis and know nothing about it?

Plato was trying to show the evils of society. A small but just city (Athens) triumphs over a mighty aggressor (Atlantis). The story also features a cultural war between wealth and modesty, between a maritime and an agrarian society, and between an engineering science and a spiritual force.

Atlantis attacks them and as a response against this attack the men of Athens formed a coalition from all over Greece to halt it.

When this coalition met difficulties their allies deserted them and the Athenians fought on alone to defeat the Atlantian rulers. They stopped an invasion of their own country as well as freeing Egypt and eventually every country under the control of the rulers of Atlantis.

People often dont bother to look into Atlantis but according to Plato they were trying to conquer the world. It ends when Zeus saw what had happened to the rulers. They had abandoned the laws of the gods and acted in an evil coalition as men. He assembled all the gods of Olympus around him and was to pronounce judgment on Atlantis. You know the rest.

Now when you look at this its obvious this wasnt an actual place he was using this to teach others about states and responsibilities of them.

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

You don't find it odd, then, that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria?

Lmao you're either delusional or out of touch with reality.

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?

Odysseus sailed to east of course to his hometown from Atlas that is all I know.

And you don't believe in Plato's Atlantis at all to be an actual city that existed.
It's a good fantasy story book for your bedtime.

I don't need to read your Plato's fairy tale to explain every little truths you know nothing about

Odysseus sailed east from Ogygia.

You claim here that Ogygia is west of Atlantis.
However, Ogygia (by tradition) was an island of the Maltese archipelago.

I know the Odyssey fairly well. I've only read three translations of it, more than once each,though it's been several decades since I read it. I was named after its main character.

You, on the other hand, think you don't need to read Plato to expound on a story invented by Plato.
What are you going by, the movie version?
Not the animated one, I hope.

Harte

What tradition? based on faith or biased opinion?
Ogygia and Atlantis were close to each other before sunken into the sea.
Ogygia was occupied by the daughter of Titan Atlas (or you'd prefer Plato's personal version of Poseidon's son Atlas)

Does it ring a bell to you?

You also (obviously) don't know the difference between a Titan and a Demigod.
What more of your deficiencies will you expose? And to think you did all that with one foot in your mouth!

Harte

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

...

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?
...

Here:

Now the fourth day came and all his work was done. And on the fifth the beautiful Calypso sent him on his way from the island after she had bathed him and clothed him in fragrant raiment. [265] On the raft the goddess put a skin of dark wine, and another, a great one, of water, and provisions, too, in a wallet. Therein she put abundance of dainties to satisfy his heart, and she sent forth a gentle wind and warm. Gladly then did goodly Odysseus spread his sail to the breeze; [270] and he sat and guided his raft skilfully with the steering-oar, nor did sleep fall upon his eyelids, as he watched the Pleiads, and late-setting Bootes, and the Bear, which men also call the Wain, which ever circles where it is and watches Orion, [275] and alone has no part in the baths of Ocean. For this star Calypso, the beautiful goddess, had bidden him to keep on the left hand as he sailed over the sea. For seventeen days then he sailed over the sea, and on the eighteenth appeared the shadowy mountains [280] of the land of the Phaeacians, where it lay nearest to him; and it shewed like unto a shield in the misty deep.

It's believed that "Scheria," land of the Phaeacians, is the present-day Corfu.

Odysseus spent most of the Odyssey trying to get home to Ithaca, but had been detained on the mythical island of Ogygia for a long while by the goddess-nymph Calypso, a daughter of the Titan Atlas (a Titan being a pre-Olympian deity).

This is a description of Calypso's island:

Round about the cave grew a luxuriant wood, alder and poplar and sweet-smelling cypress, [65] wherein birds long of wing were wont to nest, owls and falcons and sea-crows with chattering tongues, who ply their business on the sea. And right there about the hollow cave ran trailing a garden vine, in pride of its prime, richly laden with clusters. [70] And fountains four in a row were flowing with bright water hard by one another, turned one this way, one that. And round about soft meadows of violets and parsley were blooming.

No very striking resemblance to Plato's fictional location of Atlantis.

(Homer is generally dated to the late eighth or early seventh century BC - so 200 or 300 years before Plato).

a reply to: Hooke

No its not at all did you even read the story? why are you derailing things discussing a greek fable written by homer???

You do realize it was a work of fiction about a vengeful god. And if I remeber corectly happens in the Ionian sea. This means we have a very specific area off the coast of greece. And if Atlantis was there it would have been obvious to everyone since every culture near there were sailors.

a reply to: lostbook


An ancient Egyptian Map found in 30 BCE shows that Atlantis is The Great Meteor Seamount.


www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Hooke

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
a reply to: Harte

...

Where does it say that Odysseus sailed east to reach Scheria from his hometown?
...

Here:

Now the fourth day came and all his work was done. And on the fifth the beautiful Calypso sent him on his way from the island after she had bathed him and clothed him in fragrant raiment. [265] On the raft the goddess put a skin of dark wine, and another, a great one, of water, and provisions, too, in a wallet. Therein she put abundance of dainties to satisfy his heart, and she sent forth a gentle wind and warm. Gladly then did goodly Odysseus spread his sail to the breeze; [270] and he sat and guided his raft skilfully with the steering-oar, nor did sleep fall upon his eyelids, as he watched the Pleiads, and late-setting Bootes, and the Bear, which men also call the Wain, which ever circles where it is and watches Orion, [275] and alone has no part in the baths of Ocean. For this star Calypso, the beautiful goddess, had bidden him to keep on the left hand as he sailed over the sea. For seventeen days then he sailed over the sea, and on the eighteenth appeared the shadowy mountains [280] of the land of the Phaeacians, where it lay nearest to him; and it shewed like unto a shield in the misty deep.

It's believed that "Scheria," land of the Phaeacians, is the present-day Corfu.

Odysseus spent most of the Odyssey trying to get home to Ithaca, but had been detained on the mythical island of Ogygia for a long while by the goddess-nymph Calypso, a daughter of the Titan Atlas (a Titan being a pre-Olympian deity).

This is a description of Calypso's island:

Round about the cave grew a luxuriant wood, alder and poplar and sweet-smelling cypress, [65] wherein birds long of wing were wont to nest, owls and falcons and sea-crows with chattering tongues, who ply their business on the sea. And right there about the hollow cave ran trailing a garden vine, in pride of its prime, richly laden with clusters. [70] And fountains four in a row were flowing with bright water hard by one another, turned one this way, one that. And round about soft meadows of violets and parsley were blooming.

No very striking resemblance to Plato's fictional location of Atlantis.

(Homer is generally dated to the late eighth or early seventh century BC - so 200 or 300 years before Plato).

Scheria or Ogygia is not Corfu, none of them were even near Greece or the Mediterranean.

Homer left us with little clues which part of region these islands were.

When "Odysseus" ended up in Ogygia or Scheria, no one there really knew who he was, a total stranger, an outlander to them.

FGS, he's the Greek King of Ithaca. How could this be? Before I get more into this part**,

Ogygia was Calypso's island, Calypso was a nymph and also known as a daughter of Atlas.
Scheria was ruled by King Alcinous and his family. Alcinous was the grandson of Poseidon.
Alcinous' father was Phaeax thus the name of this island is called Phaeacia or Scheria.
Now, Phaeax is the son of Poseidon and Corcyra, a mortal nymph. Poseidon took Corcyra to a remote island located westward and bore a son named Phaeax (Scheria).
Was Plato mistakenly meant that Atlas as actually Phaeax, son of Poseidon? In this case, Scheria is Atlantis.
Plato's version of King of Atlas may meant the king of Atlas region thus should've been correctly named the King of Phaecia or Scheria. The land was named after his son which is strikingly similar to Plato's version of Atlas.

**Lastly back to Odysseus story, these two islands were located very far westward to Atlantic Sea, that's why dwellers there weren't very familiar with his name Odysseus.

Hesperides were also called the daughters of the evening or nymphs of the west. Their land was also located near Atlas mountains. We got a lot of mysterious unknowns pointing to Atlas which is located north of Africa facing Atlantis Ocean outward.

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
...
Scheria or Ogygia is not Corfu, none of them were even near Greece or the Mediterranean.
...

Ogygia was a mythical island i.e., a fictional island, not an island with a geographical location).

Ogygia was not identified as Scheria. I never suggested that it was.

It is widely believed that Scheria was the present-day Corfu. Korkyra was an ancient Greek city on Corfu. Thucydides (5th cent. BC), History of the Peloponnesian War, identifies it with the land of the Phaeacians:

... the Corcyraeans ... boasted of their naval superiority ... on the ground that those famous sailors the Phaeacians had inhabited Corcyra before them. (1:25)

Odysseus was journeying from the mythical location of Ogygia to the geographical location of Scheria. Scheria/Corfu was some 70 miles from Ithaca, his ultimate destination.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Hooke

No its not at all did you even read the story? why are you derailing things discussing a greek fable written by homer???

You do realize it was a work of fiction about a vengeful god. And if I remeber corectly happens in the Ionian sea. This means we have a very specific area off the coast of greece. And if Atlantis was there it would have been obvious to everyone since every culture near there were sailors.

I'm not sure if you really meant your reply for me, dragonridr.

The only posts of mine in this thread are replies to Dumbdowned on the subject of the whereabouts of Scheria.

As you say, in the Atlantis story:

Plato was trying to show the evils of society.

Regrettably, many people don't understand this, and get carried away by the tale of Atlantis, completely losing sight of the fact that it was just incidental to the main point that Plato was trying to make.

originally posted by: Hooke

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
...
Scheria or Ogygia is not Corfu, none of them were even near Greece or the Mediterranean.
...

Ogygia was a mythical island i.e., a fictional island, not an island with a geographical location).

Ogygia was not identified as Scheria. I never suggested that it was.

It is widely believed that Scheria was the present-day Corfu. Korkyra was an ancient Greek city on Corfu. Thucydides (5th cent. BC), History of the Peloponnesian War, identifies it with the land of the Phaeacians:

... the Corcyraeans ... boasted of their naval superiority ... on the ground that those famous sailors the Phaeacians had inhabited Corcyra before them. (1:25)

Odysseus was journeying from the mythical location of Ogygia to the geographical location of Scheria. Scheria/Corfu was some 70 miles from Ithaca, his ultimate destination.

Did you not read what I said?

Scheria is not Corfu because if it was Corfu, dwellers don't call Odysseus a stranger. He was a king, a ruler of Ionian islands!

There is a serious flaw of reasoning for relating Scheria to Corfu.

Like I said above, I repeat, that Poseidon took Corcyra, a nymph woman to an unknown island called Scheria and bore a son named Phaeax in which later the island was also called Phaeacia.

Why does Corcyra the region have anything to do with Scheria? Corfu is not Scheria.

And I never said Ogygia is Scheria. They are two separate islands atleast I described several times before.

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

...

Why does Corcyra the region have anything to do with Scheria? Corfu is not Scheria.
...

"Korkyra (also Corcyra; Greek: Κόρκυρα, Kórkyra) was an ancient Greek city on the island of Corfu in the Ionian sea, adjacent to Epirus." en.wikipedia.org...(polis)

See also Hazlitt, Classical Gazetteer (119) - "Corcyra ... Drepane, Scheria, Phaeacia ... "

originally posted by: Hooke

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

...

Why does Corcyra the region have anything to do with Scheria? Corfu is not Scheria.
...

"Korkyra (also Corcyra; Greek: Κόρκυρα, Kórkyra) was an ancient Greek city on the island of Corfu in the Ionian sea, adjacent to Epirus." en.wikipedia.org...(polis)

See also Hazlitt, Classical Gazetteer (119) - "Corcyra ... Drepane, Scheria, Phaeacia ... "

He provides no source just a lazy copy work.

Corcyra is a nymph who bore Poseidon's son Phaeax. This nymph named Corcyra may or may not have originated from the city of Corcyra, but it's clearly the case that they bore a son in another island called Scheria, not Corcyra.

If you read Homer's Odyssey, it details where Scheria is and will quickly realize that Scheria is far away from Odysseus' rulership of Ionian islands or Corfu.

Here, Odysseus makes himself known and tells he came from far away.

Odyssey 9.15

King Alcinous rules Scheria and calls Odysseus a stranger. If Scheria was Corfu or one of Ionian islands, Odysseus would be the King of this island.

Here, King Alcinous loans Odysseus a ship so he can head back to his home palace in Ithaca. Alcinous describes how far and fast his ship can travel, which indicates Odysseus has a long way to go.

Odyssey 7.300

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

...

If you read Homer's Odyssey, it details where Scheria is and will quickly realize that Scheria is far away from Odysseus' rulership of Ionian islands or Corfu.

...

According to Thucydides, the Corcyraeans' believed that naval prowess resulted from the fact that the Phaeacians used to live on Corcyra - i.e., Corfu.

... the Corcyraeans ... boasted of their naval superiority ... on the ground that those famous sailors the Phaeacians had inhabited Corcyra before them. (1:25)

To repeat: Odysseus went from Ogygia to Scheria and then on to Ithaca.

originally posted by: Hooke

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

...

If you read Homer's Odyssey, it details where Scheria is and will quickly realize that Scheria is far away from Odysseus' rulership of Ionian islands or Corfu.

...

According to Thucydides, the Corcyraeans' believed that naval prowess resulted from the fact that the Phaeacians used to live on Corcyra - i.e., Corfu.

... the Corcyraeans ... boasted of their naval superiority ... on the ground that those famous sailors the Phaeacians had inhabited Corcyra before them. (1:25)

To repeat: Odysseus went from Ogygia to Scheria and then on to Ithaca.

First off, Trojan War and Peloponnesian War era differed by almost a millennium.

If you're faniliar with the name Nausithous this is where it gets all mixed up. Nausithous is also known to be the ruler of Phaeacians. He was also the son of Poseidon and King Alcinous' father. It is suffice to claim that Phaeax lived way before Nausithous because his name is the origin. Therefore Phaeax was probably the grand or fore father of Alcinous'.

Nausithous' Phaeacians originated in the region of Atlas then later migrated to an island called Scheria. Do you really think or believe they migrated from Atlas all the way to Corfu? There are many islands near the Atlas.

Corcyra and Phaeacia are commonly related only because the mother's and son's names are tied to each other without considering the geographical differences. Trojan War happened in the distant past and bringing in Peloponnesian War to compare both as if they all happened in the same era is seriously flawed reasoning.

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

Nausithous' Phaeacians originated in the region of Atlas then later migrated to an island called Scheria. Do you really think or believe they migrated from Atlas all the way to Corfu? There are many islands near the Atlas.

Corcyra and Phaeacia are commonly related only because the mother's and son's names are tied to each other without considering the geographical differences. Trojan War happened in the distant past and bringing in Peloponnesian War to compare both as if they all happened in the same era is seriously flawed reasoning.

"Region of Atlas?"
Why do you say that? They came from Hypereia, and no one knows where that is, but the Phaeacians fled the Cyclops - that's why they settled Scheria. The Cyclops were located no further than Sicily in any Greek myth.

Harte