Ancient 2500 yr Old Map Shows The Lost City of Atlantis is The Eye of The Sahara

Hum are we going ot be discussing Atlantis again? Well in that case:

From: ATS Thread by me

The purpose of this thread is to provide discussion material about the validity of Atlantis as a historical place, and not a place filled with mystical gods and mind-bending technologies. While many view Atlantis as an allegory for territorial governance, others view it as a land of god-like beings that controlled the forces of the world.

I’m not going to argue either way about these views, but rather try to dissect the story of Atlantis using real world examples as a basis to figure out what Atlantis is and where it could be based off the stories told. Knowing what was going on in the world at the time when Atlantis existed will be prodded and poked in an attempt to see the world it functioned in a little more closely.

Hopefully by the end of this OP, we can have a constructive discussion about the world that Atlantis existed in as well as Atlantis possible locations, history, and possible culture it may have had. This will be a speculative view of course, but hopefully one rooted in reality, and not infested by the magical tales of popular mythologies.

In the thread I made a clear point of view that Atlantis can not be a massive island. It didn't have to be very big, the king of Atlantis was in charge of the Army that was fighting the people of Attica. With that in mind access to Atlantis from the Athens had to be made via land. I made some very good points in that thread, and some of you might want to give it a read before thinking that Atlantis is this or that.

As for the "Eye of the Sahara" being Atlantis, it doesn't fly. You might as well say that the country of Libya is Atlantis. I give a picture as to why this could be the case if people really think "The Eye of the Sahara" is.

Well at any rate I think I laid out a good argument for the island of Atlantis being in the area of Cremona Italy.

a reply to: Guyfriday

Thank your for your input. All viewpoints are welcomed!

In order for the "Eye of the Sahara" to be the site of Atlantis, then we need to re-define what a cataclysm really is.
I am not saying it could not be, but really how?

Destruction of a city on that scale would mean a complete surface wipe and there would be real evidence of something capable of producing that.

The YT article by Bright Insight (Jimmy) , was well done, but even he has reservation.

I like Jimmy, and he is about to join leagues with the likes of Hancock, Foerster, Carlson etc. He walks the walk and talks the talk with eloquence.

His latest "interior of the pyramids" videos he took on his recent trip to Egypt, are among the best ever done.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
Let me try to put things in perspective.

Plato started writing about Atlantis in his mid 60's.

His source of Atlantis story comes from his own grandfather and his father-in-law Solon (originally told by Egyptian priest).
He put his own and closest family names on the line to tell the story.
It is difficult to understand what was in Plato's mind, writing a fictional 3rd hand account of Ancient Athens and of its imaginary enemy Atlantis that none of his family really cared nor talked about nor believed in.
Was he running out of money?
Was he bored looking for some attention?
I'm not saying every little details in Plato's Timaeus and Critias are nothing but the truth, actual facts but putting his grandfather and father-in-law as the source of the story, it appears he tried his best to tell what happened 9000 years before his time.

Maybe you should read Plato.
His grandfather and father in law aren't in the dialogue.
Plato's father in law was Lamprocles.
Plato's father was Ariston of Collytus - and not the son of Solon.

Harte

I don't need to read Plato to prove the possibility of Atlantis existence.
Homer and Hesiod also have mentioned about Atlantis before him.

You need to connect the dots and stop thinking like we're the only proud smartass in the whole universe.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
Hum are we going ot be discussing Atlantis again? Well in that case:

From: ATS Thread by me

The purpose of this thread is to provide discussion material about the validity of Atlantis as a historical place, and not a place filled with mystical gods and mind-bending technologies. While many view Atlantis as an allegory for territorial governance, others view it as a land of god-like beings that controlled the forces of the world.

I’m not going to argue either way about these views, but rather try to dissect the story of Atlantis using real world examples as a basis to figure out what Atlantis is and where it could be based off the stories told. Knowing what was going on in the world at the time when Atlantis existed will be prodded and poked in an attempt to see the world it functioned in a little more closely.

Hopefully by the end of this OP, we can have a constructive discussion about the world that Atlantis existed in as well as Atlantis possible locations, history, and possible culture it may have had. This will be a speculative view of course, but hopefully one rooted in reality, and not infested by the magical tales of popular mythologies.

In the thread I made a clear point of view that Atlantis can not be a massive island. It didn't have to be very big, the king of Atlantis was in charge of the Army that was fighting the people of Attica. With that in mind access to Atlantis from the Athens had to be made via land. I made some very good points in that thread, and some of you might want to give it a read before thinking that Atlantis is this or that.

As for the "Eye of the Sahara" being Atlantis, it doesn't fly. You might as well say that the country of Libya is Atlantis. I give a picture as to why this could be the case if people really think "The Eye of the Sahara" is.

Well at any rate I think I laid out a good argument for the island of Atlantis being in the area of Cremona Italy.

I doubt Atlantis was anywhere near Europe or Mediterranean Sea.
Egyptians were aware of the mythical Ancient Athens and Atlantis war which the story passed down from generation to generation. Egyptians were greatful to Ancient Athens at the time for defeating Atlantis before it disappeared by the cause of natural disaster. We can assume that Atlantis dominance was just too great probably ruling much of Africa and Middle East in those days.

Atlantis was very likely much closer to Africa And Atlantic Ocean imo.

a reply to: Dumbdowned

Can you point out where Homer talks about Atlantis?



a reply to: Dumbdowned

There was a time when Italy controlled most of the Mediterranean lands, so why do you doubt that they could have more than once?

Also it was never stated anywhere that Attica defeated the Armies controlled by Atlantis. I'll add that I doubt that Atlantis controlled the Middle Eastern countries, or was very important since the ancient Sumerians never mention that fact in their writings.

a reply to: Harte

take the time to read the last sentence if i can call it that... i just posted paragraph below the bait video

again, # that stupid youtube troll and his channel

of course i know what the eye of the sahara is, any #ing morons know after 5 min on the internet, yet here we are, dealing with trolls, nice going

originally posted by: Dumbdowned

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Dumbdowned
Let me try to put things in perspective.

Plato started writing about Atlantis in his mid 60's.

His source of Atlantis story comes from his own grandfather and his father-in-law Solon (originally told by Egyptian priest).
He put his own and closest family names on the line to tell the story.
It is difficult to understand what was in Plato's mind, writing a fictional 3rd hand account of Ancient Athens and of its imaginary enemy Atlantis that none of his family really cared nor talked about nor believed in.
Was he running out of money?
Was he bored looking for some attention?
I'm not saying every little details in Plato's Timaeus and Critias are nothing but the truth, actual facts but putting his grandfather and father-in-law as the source of the story, it appears he tried his best to tell what happened 9000 years before his time.

Maybe you should read Plato.
His grandfather and father in law aren't in the dialogue.
Plato's father in law was Lamprocles.
Plato's father was Ariston of Collytus - and not the son of Solon.

Harte

I don't need to read Plato to prove the possibility of Atlantis existence.
Homer and Hesiod also have mentioned about Atlantis before him.

You need to connect the dots and stop thinking like we're the only proud smartass in the whole universe.

Neither Homer nor Hesiod spoke of Atlantis before Plato.
In fact nobody did.
Maybe you should google ancient Greek writers again and take another blind guess.

The term was used, though - it being a possessive form of the name Atlas.
For example, a temple of Atlas would be referred to as Atlantis Temple because Atlantis means "of Atlas."
Likewise with the phrases "Daughters of Atlas," Sea of Atlas," "Mountains of Atlas." etc.

Also, Atlantis was the title of a work by Hellanicus, but it was about Atlas' family tree and descendants.

Thus the name.

Real people laughed long and hard when you said you didn't need to read Plato - especially since you made such an ignorant claim about Plato's allegorical story.

Harte

originally posted by: Guyfriday
a reply to: Dumbdowned

Can you point out where Homer talks about Atlantis?

a reply to: Dumbdowned

There was a time when Italy controlled most of the Mediterranean lands, so why do you doubt that they could have more than once?

Also it was never stated anywhere that Attica defeated the Armies controlled by Atlantis. I'll add that I doubt that Atlantis controlled the Middle Eastern countries, or was very important since the ancient Sumerians never mention that fact in their writings.

Homer's Scheria was a part of Atlantis. And we now know that Troy was real, devastating those who strongly believed it was a fictional place.

Atlantis was in nowhere near the mediterranean so please count out Italy Cypus Spain etc.

Plato stated the reigning of Atlantis extended to Libya, Egypt and Asia (refering to part of middle east).
Do you really believe that if all of Atlantis was some little islands stuck between southern europe and northern Africa, could they have easily accessed to defeat Libya and Egypt? Plato clearly detailed the regions Atlantis already controlled in prior to war with Athens.

Sumer appears many many centuries later. Atlantis is prehistoric ~11500 BC in which modern archeologists that couldn't possible because in those days primitive men and women were roaming the jungle as hunters and gatherers.

a reply to: Dumbdowned

Ok I see where you're getting your information.
From: WIKI

The latter similarities make Scheria also suggestive of Plato's account of Atlantis. Helena Blavatsky proposed in her Secret Doctrine (1888) that it was Homer before Plato who first wrote of Atlantis. From the ancient times, some scholars having examined the work and the geography of Homer have suggested that Scheria was located in the Atlantic Ocean. Among them were Strabo and Plutarch.

So first things first, Blavatsky was a fraud that only used foreign history to create a cult. Sure you're going to argue about Theosophy being this or that, but research her before you start that discussion since she was a fraud.

Second, and most important to this topic, Scheria wasn't Atlantis. Plato is the only person of that time to have any discussion about the Island Kingdom of Atlantis. You really should go read what is written about Atlantis.
From: gutenberg.org/ Timaeus

The most famous of them all was the overthrow of the island of Atlantis. This great island lay over against the Pillars of Heracles, in extent greater than Libya and Asia put together, and was the passage to other islands and to a great ocean of which the Mediterranean sea was only the harbour; and within the Pillars the empire of Atlantis reached in Europe to Tyrrhenia and in Libya to Egypt. This mighty power was arrayed against Egypt and Hellas and all the countries bordering on the Mediterranean. Then your city did bravely, and won renown over the whole earth. For at the peril of her own existence, and when the other Hellenes had deserted her, she repelled the invader, and of her own accord gave liberty to all the nations within the Pillars. A little while afterwards there were great earthquakes and floods, and your warrior race all sank into the earth; and the great island of Atlantis also disappeared in the sea. This is the explanation of the shallows which are found in that part of the Atlantic ocean.

Most importantly: gutenberg.org/ Critias

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean. The progress of the history will unfold the various nations of barbarians and families of Hellenes which then existed, as they successively appear on the scene; but I must describe first of all the Athenians of that day, and their enemies who fought with them, and then the respective powers and governments of the two kingdoms. Let us give the precedence to Athens.

It does not say how the Island was greater than Libya and Asia, was it economically, militarily, or populational. It just doesn't say, but to assert that it was greater than pure land size is absurd.

If you went by the tale given in the Timaeus then you have to rethink the tale given in Critias, but since the telling of Timaeus is a second hand story of a second hand story told in Critias you need to consider that too. In the first telling of the story of Atlantis it is destroyed by some kind of natural disaster, in the telling of it in Timaeus Athens defeated the Atlantean military. There is no way that would have happened since the city state of Athens isn't old enough. The war that was being fought was clearly state in Critias as being the forces being lead by the King of Atlantis and the people of Attica.

a reply to: Guyfriday

I applaud your interest in this matter but you're not considering the time period of Atlantis correctly.
Both Atlantis and Ancient Athens were mythical in nature even for Plato and other renowned old Greek writers and philosophers because it's really prehistoric that there's serious lack information about them.
If you want a direct evidence of Atlantis existence better forget about it because it happened at least 11000 years ago. Lot of things have changed since then wouldn't you say?
According to Plato and others I've mentioned above (although not a direct proof), Atlantis was just not about that concentric Island. It was recorded by Egyptian authority, and the story was told instead of copied or translated directly to Greek. Plato isn't the original source and I believe he altered to his liking in regards to Atlas being Poseidon's son and stuff.

Anyhow It was probably a huge powerful empire that had a mainland out somewhere between Africa and Atlantic Ocean.
Concentric island of Atlantis is what many are trying to locate but we may actually have already found them.
We may just be not connecting the dots at all or overlooking other hints that are available today.

a reply to: Dumbdowned

You should go look at the thread I made. It explains out the reasoning for why I think the Island of Atlantis in now in the area of Italy.

Link to that thread

originally posted by: Guyfriday
a reply to: Dumbdowned

Ok I see where you're getting your information.
From: WIKI

The latter similarities make Scheria also suggestive of Plato's account of Atlantis. Helena Blavatsky proposed in her Secret Doctrine (1888) that it was Homer before Plato who first wrote of Atlantis. From the ancient times, some scholars having examined the work and the geography of Homer have suggested that Scheria was located in the Atlantic Ocean. Among them were Strabo and Plutarch.

So first things first, Blavatsky was a fraud that only used foreign history to create a cult. Sure you're going to argue about Theosophy being this or that, but research her before you start that discussion since she was a fraud.

Second, and most important to this topic, Scheria wasn't Atlantis. Plato is the only person of that time to have any discussion about the Island Kingdom of Atlantis. You really should go read what is written about Atlantis.
From: gutenberg.org/ Timaeus

The most famous of them all was the overthrow of the island of Atlantis. This great island lay over against the Pillars of Heracles, in extent greater than Libya and Asia put together, and was the passage to other islands and to a great ocean of which the Mediterranean sea was only the harbour; and within the Pillars the empire of Atlantis reached in Europe to Tyrrhenia and in Libya to Egypt. This mighty power was arrayed against Egypt and Hellas and all the countries bordering on the Mediterranean. Then your city did bravely, and won renown over the whole earth. For at the peril of her own existence, and when the other Hellenes had deserted her, she repelled the invader, and of her own accord gave liberty to all the nations within the Pillars. A little while afterwards there were great earthquakes and floods, and your warrior race all sank into the earth; and the great island of Atlantis also disappeared in the sea. This is the explanation of the shallows which are found in that part of the Atlantic ocean.

Most importantly: gutenberg.org/ Critias

Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean. The progress of the history will unfold the various nations of barbarians and families of Hellenes which then existed, as they successively appear on the scene; but I must describe first of all the Athenians of that day, and their enemies who fought with them, and then the respective powers and governments of the two kingdoms. Let us give the precedence to Athens.

It does not say how the Island was greater than Libya and Asia, was it economically, militarily, or populational. It just doesn't say, but to assert that it was greater than pure land size is absurd.

If you went by the tale given in the Timaeus then you have to rethink the tale given in Critias, but since the telling of Timaeus is a second hand story of a second hand story told in Critias you need to consider that too. In the first telling of the story of Atlantis it is destroyed by some kind of natural disaster, in the telling of it in Timaeus Athens defeated the Atlantean military. There is no way that would have happened since the city state of Athens isn't old enough. The war that was being fought was clearly state in Critias as being the forces being lead by the King of Atlantis and the people of Attica.

Why do you have to put a personal attack on Blavatsky for just saying Homer came before Plato. Homer's Scheria shows quite a few similarities and say was located near Atlantic ocean back then according to Strabo and Plutarch.
It's not helpful at all to finding Atlantis if we only concentrate on Plato's story.
There are compelling similarities between the two and Atlantic ocean near Africa should be the location for future studies.

As far as your Italy being Atlantis, I beg to differ.

Plato describes Mediterranean was used like one big harbor.
Why would concentric island city be built in a middle of harbor if it was easily accessible by Athenians, Egyptians and other neighboring nations? It just doesn't make sense geographically speaking. It'd be constantly surrounded by enemy ships, an easy target for attack all day and night.

And if a lower part of Italy was Atlantis, they'd have plenty of chances to attacked Athens probably gazillion times (a great warmongers they sure were), they're virtually right next to each other. Why didn't Plato mention any of that? It looked as if the ultimate war between Atlantis and Ancient Athens was a big single event.

a reply to: Dumbdowned

You really should poke around into Blavatsky before you start using her as a source.

Have you read Critias? I provided a link to a free copy of it through the Gutenberg Project. You might want to read it so that you can address the situation better.

My claim is that ;
A, Italy looked different before the Alpine Glacial collapse
B, The island kingdom of Atlantis was in northern Italy

I point this theory out in my thread, which I see you haven't read. The two major items to focus on are the describers in the Critias of both Athens and Atlantis, and the disaster that happened.

If we are looking for the actual location of Atlantis then we are possibly going to find it in the modern Pacific. It so deep and so uncharted. Indeed the modern UFO phenomenon that I believe comes from the water courses and deeps of the ocean is possibly the Atlanteans

a reply to: Guyfriday

as usual Atlantis pleb theories ignore the main source


He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.




so on an island, you're hypothesis is already out, outside of the pillar of hercules...
all morons ignore the text for the clics and trolls just keep on abusing the buzz word
there's no mystery about its general location, it's known

a reply to: Deathiseven

Pillars of Heracles is the problem here. We think that means the area between the Rock of Gibraltar and Jebel Musa (I think that's the name) in northern Africa. Historically though, the Pillars of Heracles is the furthest reaches of the Heracles' travels. It wasn't until later during the Roman era that the mouth of the Mediterranean was names the Pillars.

The other issue with the direct description of Atlantis in the story of Critias is that the trireme was invented around the 8th century BC and didn't exist in 9300BC (the time frame in which the war took place according to Critias), so other types of boats would have to be thought about. Why is this fact important? Well from the Critias:

Moreover, they divided at the bridges the zones of land which parted the zones of sea, leaving room for a single trireme to pass out of one zone into another, and they covered over the channels so as to leave a way underneath for the ships; for the banks were raised considerably above the water. Now the largest of the zones into which a passage was cut from the sea was three stadia in breadth, and the zone of land which came next of equal breadth; but the next two zones, the one of water, the other of land, were two stadia, and the one which surrounded the central island was a stadium only in width.

Now this could have been a compareism of what a trireme meant to the Athenians. If this is the case then we can assume that the channels were just large enough for the grandest ships of the day to pass. So what kinds of boats existed in 9300BC?

Well around 4000 BC Egyptians were using reed boats for trade and travel, so we have that as a starter in thinking about this.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
If we are looking for the actual location of Atlantis then we are possibly going to find it in the modern Pacific. It so deep and so uncharted. Indeed the modern UFO phenomenon that I believe comes from the water courses and deeps of the ocean is possibly the Atlanteans

Erm, if Atlantis was in the Pacific then why were they fighting the stone age ancestors of the Athenians?

originally posted by: Deathiseven
a reply to: Guyfriday

as usual Atlantis pleb theories ignore the main source


He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest; the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory. And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic. To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the Pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.




so on an island, you're hypothesis is already out, outside of the pillar of hercules...
all morons ignore the text for the clics and trolls just keep on abusing the buzz word
there's no mystery about its general location, it's known

Thanks for someone pointing this out.
It's been a long while basis for Atlantis' location as somewhere beyond the strait of Gibraltar.

And in regards to Poseidon and Atlas, many should be aware that Plato's forefathers claimed to trace their lineage to Poseidon. There's no other source besides Plato's to prove that Poseidon had a son named Atlas. Poseidon had a huge army of sons all coming from different variety of sources.
Having few more sons added to the list would be easier than faking his own lineage.
It just seems too farfetched.
Atlantic Ocean Atlantes Atlas that we know today came from Titan Atlas.

**Just if, say Poseidon really had a son named Atlas, then King Atlas of Mauritania is him.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
If we are looking for the actual location of Atlantis then we are possibly going to find it in the modern Pacific. It so deep and so uncharted. Indeed the modern UFO phenomenon that I believe comes from the water courses and deeps of the ocean is possibly the Atlanteans

Erm, if Atlantis was in the Pacific then why were they fighting the stone age ancestors of the Athenians?

It's a very good question and as I've had a couple of Bishops Fingers I'll have to figure this out in the morning. Nighty night AngryCymraeg