Can you really say Evolution has no Meaning ?

a reply to: cooperton

Thousands of research articles have been written on evolution and common ancestry. Have you written a letter to any of the authors telling them they're wrong? Do you have any data to prove they're wrong? Other than your crackpot opinions and deliberate misinterpretation of the real data, you have nothing. Never did, never will.

originally posted by: cooperton

Perhaps you lack the imagination for what an extra-dimensional atemporal Being would be capable of doing. Every night in our dreams we create vast worlds effortlessly... Imagine a Being that had control of such mental potential. I suppose we exist within the Mind of this Creator Being. Quantum physics is the biggest hint towards this reality.. because it shows that the faculty of consciousness is fundamental and interrelated to the workings of physics (see copenhagen interpretation). In short, particles behave differently when they are being measured.

All the big hitters that developed quantum theory have some things to say that we often forget when focusing too myopically on materialist science:

and my favorite:

Materialist science is obsolete, it served its purpose but it can no longer envelope the entirety of observable phenomenon. It is evident that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of reality, and for this reason I suppose we share a consciousness with that very Mind that made us.

All we need is 1 single sign of these being existing. Not "well, here is a shadow...what do you call it then?" nonsense.

Like i said: we are currently taking what we KNOW (not what we imagine to be true) and trying to piece it together. If we invoke magic, any number of things could happen. Unfortunately, we have zero instances of anything ever happening without prior causation in the physical realm. Not one single piece of evidence of magic, in the hundreds of thousands of observed experiments, has ever been found.

Maybe its just as simple as life forming, and the processes of life forming, are a natural byproduct of how atoms like to join up when they bump into each other? What if life isn't some miracle of evolution even, and is just a by product of existance? We have evidence for things like this...as we regularly find evidence of proteins in space. We find clouds of alcohol, a rather complex molecular structure. We find all manner of odd and fascinating things. Maybe because those things arise in a universe meant to create them. Like life.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
All we need is 1 single sign of these being existing. Not "well, here is a shadow...what do you call it then?" nonsense.

Like i said: we are currently taking what we KNOW (not what we imagine to be true) and trying to piece it together. If we invoke magic, any number of things could happen. Unfortunately, we have zero instances of anything ever happening without prior causation in the physical realm. Not one single piece of evidence of magic, in the hundreds of thousands of observed experiments, has ever been found.

I agree it is difficult to begin to consider that the origin of matter is a higher-dimensional energy... but when matter is incapable of being a proper explanation for the origin of consciousness and the observations at the quantum level, we have to make that quantum leap into a more comprehensive explanation. It's not magic, it's just the way that quantum particles behave, which ironically has been described as somewhat magical haha.

Maybe its just as simple as life forming, and the processes of life forming, are a natural byproduct of how atoms like to join up when they bump into each other? What if life isn't some miracle of evolution even, and is just a by product of existance? We have evidence for things like this...as we regularly find evidence of proteins in space. We find clouds of alcohol, a rather complex molecular structure. We find all manner of odd and fascinating things. Maybe because those things arise in a universe meant to create them. Like life.

I mostly agree with what you're saying here.. It seems as though life is the purpose of this program, considering the physical conditions perpetuate so consistently and ideally for biological life to persist. But I can no longer consider this is due to accident or unintelligence due to the precision of the observable system. Goldi-locks zone is no coincidence. If any one of the four fundamental forces were to change, our entire universe would change dramatically in the snap of a finger. It is that precise. For this reason I suppose our physical world is upheld by higher dimensional intelligent energy, which as Max Planck says, is the matrix of all matter.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

Thousands of research articles have been written on evolution and common ancestry. Have you written a letter to any of the authors telling them they're wrong? Do you have any data to prove they're wrong? Other than your crackpot opinions and deliberate misinterpretation of the real data, you have nothing. Never did, never will.

Ahh yes, your classic appeal to majority fallacy. That is your only evidence. Which shows you actually don't have evidence.

a reply to: cooperton


Thousands of research papers published by credible scientists presenting real EVIDENCE say you're wrong. You can bang your head against the wall all you like. You're the one with no evidence.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton


Thousands of research papers published by credible scientists presenting real EVIDENCE say you're wrong. You can bang your head against the wall all you like. You're the one with no evidence.

Haha so you respond to me exposing your appeal to majority by doing another appeal to majority? During WWII Germany there were countless papers that showed that Germany was the apex race and it was all backed by "science". lol

I've cited multiple facets of observable science on the past 2 or 3 pages. You're the one who can't find an example of an organism changing into something distinctly new yet you want me and others to blindly believe your assertions. You simply rely on "look how many people believe this".

a reply to: cooperton

you are just lucky enough to live in one of the universes that is able to exist with the 4 fundamental forces in balance. It is certainly likely that others exist that do not.

a reply to: cooperton

appeal to majority

I'd rather appeal to CREDIBLE authority than to yield to crackpots like you and your cult.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: cooperton

you are just lucky enough to live in one of the universes that is able to exist with the 4 fundamental forces in balance. It is certainly likely that others exist that do not.

What you see as lucky I see as purposefully formulated. Everything acts according to mathematical precision, that insists upon engineering rather than blind luck.

originally posted by: Phantom423

I'd rather appeal to CREDIBLE authority than to yield to crackpots like you and your cult.

Sure appeal to authority if you like, but I appeal to observable evidence as a good scientist should.

a reply to: cooperton

Sure appeal to authority if you like, but I appeal to observable evidence as a good scientist should.

More bullsh#$%%%t

originally posted by: Phantom423

More bullsh#$%%%t

you claim bull@#$# so often because you're covered in it. you can't defend your beliefs and that's ok, but don't project your ignorance onto others.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: cooperton

you are just lucky enough to live in one of the universes that is able to exist with the 4 fundamental forces in balance. It is certainly likely that others exist that do not.

What you see as lucky I see as purposefully formulated. Everything acts according to mathematical precision, that insists upon engineering rather than blind luck.

Purposefully formulated by what? Magic again?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Purposefully formulated by what? Magic again?

Well definitely not random chaos. Random chaos cannot make intelligible physical laws. It requires intelligence to make laws.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Purposefully formulated by what? Magic again?

Well definitely not random chaos. Random chaos cannot make intelligible physical laws. It requires intelligence to make laws.

How about answer his goddamn question

originally posted by: TzarChasm

How about answer his goddamn question

Chill. I already said it to him on the prior page. it is an extra-dimensional Mind.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

How about answer his goddamn question

Chill. I already said it to him on the prior page. it is an extra-dimensional Mind.

That doesn't sound made up at all. Perhaps your understanding was inspired by the "outer gods" of the Cthulhu mythos popularized in classic horror literature.

a reply to: cooperton

Now you are just spouting BS.

If you can provide any support that it requires "intelligence to make laws" I can entertain you. But honestly...you are posting woo nonsense that really just makes no sense. And then arguing not by finding something to back up what you say...but by just posting more woo nonsense.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

How about answer his goddamn question

Chill. I already said it to him on the prior page. it is an extra-dimensional Mind.

Do you have an evidence of this "extra dimensional mind"? Observations? Is there an experiment that showed its shadow in the outlines of the results?

Or is this just "magic"?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Toothache

If it's not possible for any of that to come into being without a creator, then how do you explain the existence of your god without having a creator?

I can answer that....Outside our universe there can be no time. No beginning no end, infinite. There is no chicken or egg scenario in infinity. Since we have a beginning and end with time in our universe this is something we really can't comprehend very well, just as with a singularity we have a hard time comprehending it. Think of no limits, our universe has many limits to included the amount of matter in our universe is set almost down to the atom, but think of infinite everything with no beginning and no end.

Now does this mean there is a God, nope, and it is a question we can not answer outside that there is no reason to need intelligent design to have what our universe has.

The argument is about contingency and talking about "outside of space-time" is complete speculation. If an all powerful sentient intelligent mega being can literally just existence without cause, than literally anything else can.. whether in or out of space-time.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Toothache

If it's not possible for any of that to come into being without a creator, then how do you explain the existence of your god without having a creator?

God is unbegotten, meaning that God was never created. This is because God always existed. This is hard for us to fathom since we are familiar with everything having a beginning and an end, but God never had a beginning, and will never have an end.

And again, if a sentient intelligent all powerful being can be unbegotten, so can other things. It's hard to fathom because the idea of a creator is complete guesswork that only moves the goalposts into unknowns. If God can exist like that, then other intelligence can as well, since your god is intelligent. That means intelligence AS A WHOLE does not require a designer, which means no god required.

originally posted by: Toothache

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Toothache

If it's not possible for any of that to come into being without a creator, then how do you explain the existence of your god without having a creator?

God is unbegotten, meaning that God was never created. This is because God always existed. This is hard for us to fathom since we are familiar with everything having a beginning and an end, but God never had a beginning, and will never have an end.

And again, if a sentient intelligent all powerful being can be unbegotten, so can other things. It's hard to fathom because the idea of a creator is complete guesswork that only moves the goalposts into unknowns. If God can exist like that, then other intelligence can as well, since your god is intelligent. That means intelligence AS A WHOLE does not require a designer, which means no god required.

This was never about "how did the universe happen". It's always been a question of "who will protect us from the inevitable consequences of mortality"

The most powerful people in all of history, kings and demigods and warlords and conquerors and saints, are now museum exhibits. None of them have spoken a word to the living since they expired. That should be enough evidence of what we can expect from the ethereal authorities when we pray for deliverance.

Hijacking the theory of evolution does nothing to change those facts.